Insulating an uninsulated liner

[noviceinsertuser]

I wish I had done more homework about the installation process. I've had a terrible ordeal thus far and after reading numerous posts here, I'm curious how difficult of a job it is to insulate a liner that has been installed uninsulated.
I would be hiring the job out and wondering if it is basically like paying for an entire install job from scratch.

Thanks for your help.

 

[stejus]

I wish I had done more homework about the installation process. I've had a terrible ordeal thus far and after reading numerous posts here, I'm curious how difficult of a job it is to insulate a liner that has been installed uninsulated.
I would be hiring the job out and wondering if it is basically like paying for an entire install job from scratch.

Thanks for your help.

My liner is uninsulated at this point. My sweep quoted $300 to insulate with some insulation material he'll pour into the clay tile liner. He will also install a block off plate above the smoke shelf to hold this material from falling through.

 

[DAKSY]

get some Unfaced fiberglass & jam it in around the liner & the damper area & also jame some under the top plate between the liner & the flue tile...Generally one 8 foot batt will suffice...
I've persinally been istalling this way for almost 9 years with NO ISSUES...
Some will disagree with me, however, & opinions are like (Insert singular body part here), everybody gots one! :smirk:
Ducking and running again!

 

[gpcollen1]

fill it with vermiculite. make sure it cant pour out the bottom & water/rain cant get in from the top

I suppose you would want to do a volume calculation to see exactly how much vermiculite that will take first. I think i would need 1/3 of a yard for mine.

 

[oconnor]

get some Unfaced fiberglass & jam it in around the liner & the damper area & also jame some under the top plate between the liner & the flue tile...Generally one 8 foot batt will suffice...
I've persinally been istalling this way for almost 9 years with NO ISSUES...
Some will disagree with me, however, & opinions are like (Insert singular body part here), everybody gots one! :smirk:
Ducking and running again!

(Brent fires a friendly warning shot across DAKSY's bow.... in the full spirit of the Hearth.com community of course)

I don't like the fibreglass solution - I once packed an airgap around a chimney thimble with it, and the smell from the smouldering mess was not nice - like a cross between sweet antifreeze and cat pee

opinions are like bellybuttons....

 

[Pine Knot]

I did mine like DAKSY said. Works good.

 

[burntime]

Go to rockford supply on ebay, great guys! I paid 250 or so for the liner and did it my self. Made a big difference. Of course I added a block off plate as well. You can damper the stove even more so you get longer burns.

 

[Rudyjr]

I used unfaced fiberglass on a direct connect aitight stove pipe in a fireplace in the mid 70's. Moved and pulled the stove in 81 the fiberglass looked like the day I put it in. I still would prefer to use rockwool but as other have pointed out opinions are like..., Kaowool would be the best choice if it were more safe healthwise to work with, so I will stick with rock wool. Just my opinion.

 

[bren582]

Fiberglass Insulation is not just glass. All commercially available spun glass fiber products contain binders, lubricants, anti-static compounds, corrosion inhibitors and sizing agents. These compounds having various melting points much lower than the point where fiberglass begins to soften and melt (approx 2000 Def F).

Kaowool or Ceramic Fiber blanket is a product made from 100% naturally occurring alumina-silica clay refractory fiber. it is white and odorless and resists temperatures as high as 2300 deg F. It will not go moldy or loose its effectiveness when exposed to moister. It is the product of choice for high heat applications and thus lends itself very well to fireplace projects.

Much has been written of the dangers of exposure to heat induced off gassing of compounds of every sort. Bottom line its not good for you or your family to breath it..

Just consider this before you stuff that fiberglass insulation into a high heat application that it was never designed for..

This is my opinion based on what I have read about it.. With all due respect to the many far more knowledgeable fireplace folks on this site.

 

[burntime]

With my old insert I used fiberglass to seal it to the fireplace. The manual said to use fiberglass. The one thing I noticed and it backs up what bren says is the yellow fiberglass was white, pure white. All the binders etc must have burned off leaving just the fiberglass. I think it used to have formaldahyde (sp) and the new stuff does not. Is it harmfull? I don't know. But I went with the chimney liner with 2 little kids in the house. Then more you know the more carefull you get! Good luck!

 

[woodchopper]

Kaowool or Ceramic Fiber blanket is a product made from 100% naturally occurring alumina-silica clay refractory fiber. it is white and odorless and resists temperatures as high as 2300 deg F. It will not go moldy or loose its effectiveness when exposed to moister. It is the product of choice for high heat applications and thus lends itself very well to fireplace projects. .

Where would one buy some of this Kaowool or Ceramic Fiber Blanket?? After what you said I'd like to try it. Thanks.

 

[bren582]

It seems the easiest and cheapest place to find it is Ebay.. I went with a 1" #8 24" wide by 25ft or 50Sqft purchase, more than enough for most installations. I went overboard with my install and still had some to spare..

 

[bren582]

Oh, and wear breathing protection when working with the stuff.. it's even worse than regular fiberglass as the needle like fibers become air born very easily when worked.. Once it's in place no problem but the slightest movement of the stuff makes it air born. Big itch factor to the skin and no good for the lungs..

 

[woodchopper]

Oh, and wear breathing protection when working with the stuff.. it's even worse than regular fiberglass as the needle like fibers become air born very easily when worked.. Once it's in place no problem but the slightest movement of the stuff makes it air born. Big itch factor to the skin and no good for the lungs..

What is it made of? Just curious.

 

[Lanningjw]

I see the stuff your talking about,
Which one would be the best size to insulate a block off plate?
(broken link removed)
Jim

 

[Lanningjw]

This stuff

 

[Wet1]

What insulation is used and sold with the commercially available SS flex liner kits?

 

[burntime]

It is rockwool that is 1/2 inch thick if I remember right, then there is a foil face on it.

 

[Wet1]

It is rockwool that is 1/2 inch thick if I remember right, then there is a foil face on it.

That makes sense. How is it attached and joined around the length of the liner? I have a 35' 6" liner I need to do, but the ID of the flue is only 7" so I'm concerned about the fit.

Thanks.

 

[burntime]

3m spray, the stuff is nasty! then wrap it around the liner, chicken wire around it, then pile clamp the ends and viola, insulated liner!

 

[Wet1]

Well that doesn't sound like much fun (you should see my roof)! I've worked with the 3M spray before, that sounds like a really messy job. So the adhesive is expected to melt/burn off then?

I had thought about pouring in vermiculite (sp?), but accessing and creating a shelf at the bottom would be a major ordeal since I'd have to know a bunch of bricks out to do it. I'm begining to think this might be the best solution after all.

 

[burntime]

I made a new top plate, and made a block off plate. Removal, making the plates, insulating the liner, and reinstalling took 4 hours for 2 guys. Pretty funny that the dealers quote 8 hours to just install. Had I done it a few times and actually worked at it it can be done in 2 1/2 hours plus cleanup.

 

[Wet1]

That sounds pretty reasonable. I know I did my father's uninsulated liner in less than a couple of hours... but I know insulating mine wont be nearly as easy!

 

[burntime]

They sell a cone that goes on the end...maybe put some wieght in it . Think about it, a liner is a giant corkscrew...even if you pull some of the insulation off, it will still be worlds better!

 

[Wet1]

I'm sure it could be forced in there. The problem is the height and pitch of the roof. Even when I'm up there I have to get up on my toes to look into the flue(s). About the only way I can see doing this is with a lift or scaffolding. That and the tight 7"x7" clay flue ID (which only runs part way down chimney and is in really bad shape) is why I'm starting to think pouring vermiculite might be the way to go... It would probably be easier to deal with the nightmare of getting in there and creating a shelf at the base, rather than killing myself 40' up in the air trying to finagle the thing down with unknown success. It's not a job I'm looking forward to doing either way!