Insulation - Won't Fit

[Jacub]

I'm to get my BK Ashford 30.2 installed next month. I have an existing clay liner (never used) in the chimney stack. The idea is to drop a liner down. However, I am told by my installer that an insulated liner will not fit and we will simply forgo insulation. I understand this is perhaps not the best idea. The ID of the clay liner (rectangular) is 9"x6.9". What should I do?

From ground level (the hearth pad) the chimney is approximately 22 feet in height. Half of it is exposed to the elements. I am in Canada.

Thank you for any advice on this.

 

[bholler]

I'm to get my BK Ashford 30.2 installed next month. I have an existing clay liner (never used) in the chimney stack. The idea is to drop a liner down. However, I am told by my installer that an insulated liner will not fit and we will simply forgo insulation. I understand this is perhaps not the best idea. The ID of the clay liner (rectangular) is 9"x6.9". What should I do?

From ground level (the hearth pad) the chimney is approximately 22 feet in height. Half of it is exposed to the elements. I am in Canada.

Thank you for any advice on this.

An oval liner or break out the clay.

 

[FuzzyOne]

I have a stainless flex liner in an exterior clay chimney, probably 28', no insulation, zero issues.

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[EbS-P]

Did the installer say that the uninsulated line would be up to code? I am translating your best idea comment into two questions. Does the insulated liner offer operational benefits? And Does it provide a larger safety “margin”? You can do some quick research here on the forum and answer those questions yourself if you don’t already know the answer( it’s yes to both.
An insulated liner will be more expensive and I would ask more questions of anyone suggesting an uninsulated install.
bholler’s insulated oval recommendation is what I would explore. He really knows his trade.
evan.

 

[bholler]

I have a stainless flex liner in an exterior clay chimney, probably 28', no insulation, zero issues.

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And do you have the required 1" of clearance from the outside of the chimney to combustibles? If not your chimney doesn't meet code and is potentially unsafe.

 

[FuzzyOne]

And do you have the required 1" of clearance from the outside of the chimney to combustibles? If not your chimney doesn't meet code and is potentially unsafe.

Absolutely. I actually met with my township's fire inspector before the install, interviewed two installers and had a separate inspection done by a chimney sweep. All told me insulation wasn't needed.... even though I wanted it. The final inspection was also completed for the permit.

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[bholler]

Absolutely. I actually met with my township's fire inspector before the install, interviewed two installers and had a separate inspection done by a chimney sweep. All told me insulation wasn't needed.... even though I wanted it. The final inspection was also completed for the permit.

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Ok and they confirmed a 1" space between the chimney and house the whole way up? What liner did you use? Most liners need insulation when used for solid fuel to maintain the ul listing for that purpose.

 

[Woody Stover]

Ok and they confirmed a 1" space between the chimney and house the whole way up? What liner did you use? Most liners need insulation when used for solid fuel to maintain the ul listing for that purpose.

I wonder why that is? You'd think more heat would build up in the liner if it is insulated..?

 

[bholler]

I wonder why that is? You'd think more heat would build up in the liner if it is insulated..?

Because liner manufacturers don't want to pay to have their liner tested with insulation to get zero clearance and without in a chimney with proper clearance. And if it wasn't tested without insulation it isn't listed without it.

 

[FuzzyOne]

Ok and they confirmed a 1" space between the chimney and house the whole way up? What liner did you use? Most liners need insulation when used for solid fuel to maintain the ul listing for that purpose.

My install was 15+ years ago, so I have no idea the manufacturer of the liner. Both installers were using the same flex liner though. I do know that my insert manufacturer did not require an insulated liner. Like I said, I wanted one, but three "professionals" told me it wasn't necessary to insulate the liner in an existing clay tile stack. I say professional, but anyone in the business can refer to themselves as a "professional" or "certified". Hence why I met with my fire code inspector first before having the install done. Maybe all code inspectors aren't as diligent as mine was. He actually read the specs on both the insert and liner as it was all submitted for the permit and checked at the final.

Sorry to the OP for going off topic. Your local inspector will ultimately have the final say whether one is required.... I'd also check with them for references. I have zero issues.

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[bholler]

My install was 15+ years ago, so I have no idea the manufacturer of the liner. Both installers were using the same flex liner though. I do know that my insert manufacturer did not require an insulated liner. Like I said, I wanted one, but three "professionals" told me it wasn't necessary to insulate the liner in an existing clay tile stack. I say professional, but anyone in the business can refer to themselves as a "professional" or "certified". Hence why I met with my fire code inspector first before having the install done. Maybe all code inspectors aren't as diligent as mine was. He actually read the specs on both the insert and liner as it was all submitted for the permit and checked at the final.

Sorry to the OP for going off topic. Your local inspector will ultimately have the final say whether one is required.... I'd also check with them for references. I have zero issues.

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No code has final say unless the code inspector gives you a written and signed variance saying the code violation is ok. If they just miss it or as in most cases don't know the actual code it is still not compliant and who ever installed it is on the hook for the liability. Code inspectors are not liable unless they give out that variance. In your case unless they pulled that j chanel back or drilled test holes there is no way that they could have confirmed the proper clearances. It doesn't matter if your insert manufacturer didn't call for insulation. What matters is clearances and the ul listing of your liner.

 

[bholler]

And regardless of code and the accompanying safety concerns an insulated liner just work better. Yes uninsulated can work ok. But with insulation you can run lower temps out of the stove meaning less heat wasted out the chimney without having creosote issues. It also means the liner will heat up faster resulting in less buildup. That also means it is easier to establish draft so less preheating of the chimney less chance of draft stalling at the end of the burn etc

 

[Jacub]

Thanks for all the feedback. I also had several installers tell me insulated is not required by code. Strange. I had thought code here was more stringent. I got a quote for breaking up the clay / rebuilding the stack and it is really not feasible. I have a 2" airspace around my chimney stack.

Any pour in insulation?
Can I use a 5.5" liner for a BK 30.2 that is insulated? I will also inquire about an oval one.

 

[bholler]

Thanks for all the feedback. I also had several installers tell me insulated is not required by code. Strange. I had thought code here was more stringent. I got a quote for breaking up the clay / rebuilding the stack and it is really not feasible. I have a 2" airspace around my chimney stack.

Any pour in insulation?
Can I use a 5.5" liner for a BK 30.2 that is insulated? I will also inquire about an oval one.

If you have a 2" air gap around the entire chimney then no by code you wouldn't need insulation as long as you are not voiding the listing of the liner by not insulating. And many installers here insist insulation isn't needed either without ever checking clearances. It is allot easier to drop bare liners and you can do multiple a day meaning more income.

 

[Supersurvey]

Does anyone know wat size oval liner will fit in the 9x6.9?

 

[bholler]

Does anyone know wat size oval liner will fit in the 9x6.9?

5x7 fits nicely

 

[MTASH]

I replied to your post in the BK Performance thread:

Is it a straight shot through your chimney? If so check out Duravent's ovalized rigid Duraliner. The 6" version will fit in your chimney without breaking out the clay.

(broken link removed to http://www.duravent.com/Product.aspx?hProduct=6)