Is anyone buying this?

[JoeRJGR]

Thanks again everyone for all your help over the last couple weeks in regard to my new Clydesdale, you guys are the greatest source of info....


So, we make the purchase, but I am not getting warm and fuzzies over how they plan on doing the install.

1. They say we dont need a block off plate. Says Regency (he also sells Regency) does not recommend it with afull SS liner. I checked on Regencys website..he's right on that. However, I told him that Hearthstone does (I checked)..says he didn't realize that, but he'll order me a block off plate and install it if thats what I want (no charge)

2. Noticed on my reciept that he specified 5.5 " SS liner. I said the unit requires a 6 " liner. He says that if he uses a 5.5 " liner then he can get through flue door without having to hack it up, and it works fine....I told him the width on my door is just 6 ", and why no just take the hinges off? Again, he says he'll do that, but doesnt want to have to bend the liner

3. I asked him about insulation and of course he says in Jersey we dont need it. He also said that it adds another inch or so to the liner and again, it may not fit through the flue door, smoke shelf, or the flu tile. He says many flue tiles are 6X6 and its too tight a fit. Neither he nor I know the size of my flue tile, and since its snowing, I cant go up there an check....

4. I asked if he uses the super-flow (smooth inside wall) liner, and he says they are two heavy to bend past the smoke shelf, and if I have a clean shot, we can just put in a solid liner.

He does say he'll do anything I want, its just that I really dont want to be the guy educating him....another company I talked to was very familiar with doing block off plates and uses the superflow liner...but also says no insulation is neccessary..

They guy I spoke to does not do the install but is their technical guy. I think I am going to have to have them send him over the installer and have them take a look at all this for his thoughts...

Think I am being paranoid or think I should ask for a refund an find another guy?

as always...THANKS!

 

[amellefson]

I stopped reading after the ss liner part. Sounds like a load of something, and I don't mean wood. ;-)

 

[Renovation]

Think I am being paranoid or think I should ask for a refund an find another guy?

as always...THANKS!

I think you're being a wise consumer, and that includes specifying something other than "the usual". No harm no foul. Pick whoever you feel offers the best overall deal, including your upgrades.

BrotherBart has reported no problems with 5.5" instead of 6"--please correct me if I'm wrong.

There is debate on smooth over ridged--some say smooth for easier cleaning, some say ridged flexes in operation and sheds some creosote.

Me, I'd absolutely go for insulation in some form (wrap or vermiculite) and block off plate--seems a no brainer there.

HTH, and happy burning!

 

[BrotherBart]

I stopped reading after the ss liner part. Sounds like a load of something, and I don't mean wood. ;-)

Well, then what is it a load of? Lots of 5.5" liners are installed every day of the week. And the double wall liners are a total pain in the butt to install. In fact I pulled mine after the first year because of the damage done to it uncoiling it and getting it down the chimney. And replaced it with a 5.5" single wall liner.

As far as the block off plate goes, I don't know of any dealer or installer that automatically figures one in the deal on a insert install. Optional if you want it. Liner insulation pretty much the same way. Insulation is a safety item with the possibility of helping draft being another issue. Two exceptions are chimney pros that are members of this site that insulate all liner installations for safety concerns.

But I do question anybody quoting a turn key installation without ever having come out and inspecting the chimney and seeing what the installation is going to entail.

 

[Jutt77]

Thanks again everyone for all your help over the last couple weeks in regard to my new Clydesdale, you guys are the greatest source of info....


So, we make the purchase, but I am not getting warm and fuzzies over how they plan on doing the install.

1. They say we dont need a block off plate. Says Regency (he also sells Regency) does not recommend it with afull SS liner. I checked on Regencys website..he's right on that. However, I told him that Hearthstone does (I checked)..says he didn't realize that, but he'll order me a block off plate and install it if thats what I want (no charge)

2. Noticed on my reciept that he specified 5.5 " SS liner. I said the unit requires a 6 " liner. He says that if he uses a 5.5 " liner then he can get through flue door without having to hack it up, and it works fine....I told him the width on my door is just 6 ", and why no just take the hinges off? Again, he says he'll do that, but doesnt want to have to bend the liner

3. I asked him about insulation and of course he says in Jersey we dont need it. He also said that it adds another inch or so to the liner and again, it may not fit through the flue door, smoke shelf, or the flu tile. He says many flue tiles are 6X6 and its too tight a fit. Neither he nor I know the size of my flue tile, and since its snowing, I cant go up there an check....

4. I asked if he uses the super-flow (smooth inside wall) liner, and he says they are two heavy to bend past the smoke shelf, and if I have a clean shot, we can just put in a solid liner.

He does say he'll do anything I want, its just that I really dont want to be the guy educating him....another company I talked to was very familiar with doing block off plates and uses the superflow liner...but also says no insulation is neccessary..

They guy I spoke to does not do the install but is their technical guy. I think I am going to have to have them send him over the installer and have them take a look at all this for his thoughts...

Think I am being paranoid or think I should ask for a refund an find another guy?

as always...THANKS!

You already have a plan. Why not install it yourself?

 

[98dingo]

To the OP- If this was my install, I would remove the clay tiles if needed to allow for proper insulation. As for the the insulation, We use a pour in insulation for 99% of the jobs. As for the liner size, I prefer to use the same size as the insert requires. But as Bart claims his works fine and should not pose much of a problem unless other aspects of the chimney are no correct.

 

[JoeRJGR]

Jutt,

I really would prefer to do it myself, its just:

a. I just got done doing two french drains in the back yard. 4 feet deep by 80 and 100 feet..took about 3 months of weekends..Have an 1984 Porsche 944 race car I am trying to sell, but it needs refernce sensors....have a 3 year old...

 

[webby3650]

I am yet to see a firplace with a 6x6 flue! This guy is crazy, you can tell what size the clay is from below. I can guarantee, to get a proper fit the installer will have to modify the damper opening and likely remove a few bricks, especially with a rigid liner. Block-off plates are mode on sire not ordered, I would recommend finding another installer, there are just too many things that don't make since, and insist on insulation, it will be much, much easier to clean.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I have a 5.5" liner. It's insulated and 25 feet long. It works.

Matt

 

[JoeRJGR]

As far as the size of the flue tile at the top of the chimney... which was what his concern was, it looks much bigger to me then 6 x 6. See attached. The flue itself is much larger, never really getting much smaller then the 6 x 36 size of the damper. There are 3 flue tiles in this pci..the two larger ones are for the first and secon floor fireplaces and the small one is for the heater...

Still going to insist on insulation...

 

[Fsappo]

I stopped reading after the ss liner part. Sounds like a load of something, and I don't mean wood. ;-)

But I do question anybody quoting a turn key installation without ever having come out and inspecting the chimney and seeing what the installation is going to entail.

Exactly. No job should be done without a site check by the lead technician. We dont insulate, we use 6" liners when we can and 5.5" when we need to. Never had a problem with a 5.5" We dont squish the pipe thru the damper, we make the hole big enough for the liner to get thru. We use flex liner, not the smooth wall stuff, just the standard stuff. We block off top and bottom and only insulate when we deem it needed, such as a 6" liner down an 18x18 or untiled chimney.

Regency suggests no blockoff plate, but we still cram the damper area chuck full with about 10' feet of rockwool. Creating a dead air space in the chimney by blocking top and bottom creates a very good natural insulation.

 

[JoeRJGR]

So Franks,

You only insulate if the Chimney is really large? I looked up today with a light and i would guess that it probably is about 6x12. Its all brick, not usre what untiled means...

Thanks

 

[wood-fan-atic]

If you look up in your chimney, and you see bricks all the way up(or as far as you can see), your chimney is untiled. Most houses biult from the 40's and later are tiled. Take a peek --> no bricks = :cheese:

 

[JoeRJGR]

Wood-fan-atic,

Thanks, I took a look up and the side wall that is exposed on the outside of the house is brick. The opposite wall faces another chimney and that appears to have a coating of motar, as does the inside wall that faces the house and the wall that faces away from the house..

So is it tiled or not??? House was built in 1976...

As always, Thanks!

 

[webby3650]

Wood-fan-atic,

Thanks, I took a look up and the side wall that is exposed on the outside of the house is brick. The opposite wall faces another chimney and that appears to have a coating of motar, as does the inside wall that faces the house and the wall that faces away from the house..

So is it tiled or not??? House was built in 1976...

As always, Thanks!

"Tiled" is refering to the clay liner that is sticking out of the top. Yours appears to be clay lined, I would also guess the flue is 12"x12".

 

[leeave96]

Thanks again everyone for all your help over the last couple weeks in regard to my new Clydesdale, you guys are the greatest source of info....


So, we make the purchase, but I am not getting warm and fuzzies over how they plan on doing the install.

1. They say we dont need a block off plate. Says Regency (he also sells Regency) does not recommend it with afull SS liner. I checked on Regencys website..he's right on that. However, I told him that Hearthstone does (I checked)..says he didn't realize that, but he'll order me a block off plate and install it if thats what I want (no charge)

2. Noticed on my reciept that he specified 5.5 " SS liner. I said the unit requires a 6 " liner. He says that if he uses a 5.5 " liner then he can get through flue door without having to hack it up, and it works fine....I told him the width on my door is just 6 ", and why no just take the hinges off? Again, he says he'll do that, but doesnt want to have to bend the liner

3. I asked him about insulation and of course he says in Jersey we dont need it. He also said that it adds another inch or so to the liner and again, it may not fit through the flue door, smoke shelf, or the flu tile. He says many flue tiles are 6X6 and its too tight a fit. Neither he nor I know the size of my flue tile, and since its snowing, I cant go up there an check....

4. I asked if he uses the super-flow (smooth inside wall) liner, and he says they are two heavy to bend past the smoke shelf, and if I have a clean shot, we can just put in a solid liner.

He does say he'll do anything I want, its just that I really dont want to be the guy educating him....another company I talked to was very familiar with doing block off plates and uses the superflow liner...but also says no insulation is neccessary..

They guy I spoke to does not do the install but is their technical guy. I think I am going to have to have them send him over the installer and have them take a look at all this for his thoughts...

Think I am being paranoid or think I should ask for a refund an find another guy?

as always...THANKS!

You may not need a block-off plate, but if your stove manufacturer recommends it, I'd do it - unless it was an impossible installation deal.

Lots of folks use the 5.5 inch liner with good results. If you were going from a stove with an 8 inch outlet to a 5.5 inch flue, I'd be concerned.

Insulation is a good and required to meet UL listing for zero clearance on a single wall liner. It helps insulate the liner such that heat is retained inside the liner. This will help with draft, but more important, keep heat contained in the liner away from combustibles (like creosote) that could otherwise ignite if you had a flue fire.

I feel the smoother the liner the better. If they can do a rigid liner, then absolutely that is the way to go. If you are keeping your liner swept and burning dry/seasoned wood, you won't have much creosote to deal with - so if the liner is not so smooth and that's all that will fit, then OK too. If the flue tile makes your chimney to tight to get a liner with insulation to go down, the installer can easily bust out the liner. My chimney required this for my 6 inch with insulation install. It was the easiest part of their install for me. BTW, for the UL listing, you need 1/2 inch insulation - not 1/4 inch.

Bottom line is it's your $$$'s and your house, so hold your ground and get what you want/require.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[JoeRJGR]

Thanks all,

Franks,

How exactly do you block the top??

 

[btuser]

Having done my own liner I will agree with everything your installer has said. I think the block off plate is a good idea, but not necessary if you block the top. If you've got an exterior chimney you may gain something but I think they're left over from before full relines became fashionable. I've got a 6" stove and a 5.5" liner on an outside 15' chimney and I've got plenty of draft (now that I've got decent wood to burn). There's no way I could have fit a 6" liner wrapped in 1/2" insulation down a 8x8 clay liner.

Is it really that easy to bust out a clay liner? I could see if its free standing but if its grouted in place I think I'd ruin the chimney.

 

[JoeRJGR]

Thanks BTuser,

I have about a 25 - 30 ft chimney..would that matter?