Is it OK to substitute Class A pipe for double wall on close clearance install ?

[KeithO]

Hi

I am sweating bullets trying to come up with a wood burning stove to fit the only suitable spot in my great room. The problem is that it is a corner install. The wall in that space has a short leg of 46" and a long leg of 9ft. The 46" is at the end where one enters the room from a long hallway and that wall runs perpendicular to the hallway. The 9 ft run is toward a large archway that leads into the kitchen. In essence, the space is a triangle since that part of the room is used as an aisleway.

I'm attaching a rough sketch of the layout, I'm sure it makes more sense than my description. By virtue of the width being limited to a maximum of 46" it does make fitting a stove in that corner pretty difficult. A 45 degree layout is basically impossible, unless one finds a stove with very small corner clearances. The 11-14" corner clearances that are common, together with the 16-18" front clearance means that the floor protector would block the aisleway access.

One of the alternatives I am looking at is having the back of the stove face the 46" wall with the door facing toward the kitchen. By using a double wall pipe and heat shields, I should get a reasonable clearance on the back of the stove.

So here is my question: If double wall stove pipe and Class A is the same price, would it be OK to run the class A all the way to the stove connector ? The class A just seems like a far better quality product for the price and it has a 2" listed clearance to combustibles (even if the stove connector does not). I know that one will loose a little heat through the better insulation in the class A, but the draft should be great and it should last forever. I already have 18ft of Class A that I got for the run from the ceiling through the roof and I am considering if I should get another 10ft for inside the room. Besides the cost of the pipe itself, the adapters needed to go from the stove to the double wall to the class A add quite a bit to the cost. If I use the class A the stovepipe to class A adapter can be inserted directly into the stove connector since it has the same interface dimension as the botton of a stovepipe.

Due to more pressing commitments, we are not going to get the stove of our dreams right now, but are looking at the Jotul F100, Pacific Energy Vista or similar smaller stoves. Obviously, we need a stove with small clearances. The stove is not for primary 24/7 heating, just a small fire fire in the morning and a longer one at night to bump up the room temperature to a comfortable level and add ambiance. Our corn stove will run in the finished area down in the basement, where the HVAC will pick up the heated air and distribute it through the house. If both "alternative" fires goes out, the thermostat will kick in the NG furnace, which is on a programmeable thermostat. The great room is 16x16 and the kitchen next door is the same size, connected by an 8ft wide archway.

Any good recommendations would be appreciated.
Keith

 

[Gunner]

Go with the PE. Corner install is 4", use double wall stovepipe, problem solved.

IMO a small temperary stove is a bad idea. Get what you want/need the first time. A couple hundred more will get you a spectrum that'll burn overnight.

 

[KeithO]

The spectrum is quite a bit bigger. I really wanted a soapstone stove, but since we are planning to move in a few years, we will be starting from scratch then.

 

[elkimmeg]

Keith couple of suggestions you want to get the largest BTU stove that can fit, Like Gunner said
Second you need to research clearances and Floor protection. What if you were able to remove some existing flooring and install tile and dura rock ,that would satisfy thermal protection and be the same height of your passageway surface. What you would have to target is stoves with bottom and rear heat shields possibly side heat shields.

Another possibility is looking at stoves that sit higher possibly a pedestal stove would require less floor thermal protection

Essentially you have to research specs of manufactures. Class A, use manufactures clearance of 2" and bring it down to the stove collar and make the connection with a single wall connector pipe. It can be done.

 

[Gunner]

Take the stove with you. If your moving in a few years I don't see the point especially with an occasional heater, you will have very little return on your investment.

There is no thermal protection required with PE just ember protection...tile right on the subfloor.

 

[KeithO]

Elk, if one cuts shorter the "proper" stovepipe to class A adapter (since the "neck" is at least 6" long) one should eliminate almost all of the radiant heat at the connector itself. See the pic for the supervent adapter.

 

[KeithO]

Gunner, I intend to be building masonry heaters in CO. I will build one in the new home there. Concrete floors with passive solar and "proper" floorplan for radiant space heating.

 

[Gooserider]

Looking at your sketch, I'd put the stove with the back side against the 9' wall to the kitchen, and stuff it as far into the corner as clearances allow (possibly using the 1" spaced wall protector approach to reduce clearances to the minimum) and build the floor protector so that it is flush with the rest of the floor - that should let you put in a big stove while not blocking the passage way.

Gooserider

 

[KeithO]

I got a few quotes today.

PE Vista $1550
PE Super 27 $1776

Jotul F100 $1074
Jotul F3CB $1524

Morso 8142 $2700
Morso 2040 $$3000
Morso 7110 $1600

Comments on the prices ? Obviously the 2 European style Morso's eliminated themselves from my budget category, but how about the others ?

 

[senorFrog]

Class A is really large in diameter and can look REAL ugly inside a house, even when painted black.

Would kitty cornering the stove help at all?

 

[nshif]

A corner instaled quad 4300 only needs 2" clearance to the corners. would that help?

 

[KeithO]

Class A is really large in diameter and can look REAL ugly inside a house, even when painted black.

Would kitty cornering the stove help at all?

The Class A I would be using is 8" OD (1/2" of fiber insulation), so its not a whole lot bigger than 8" stovepipe that one needs on certain larger stoves. What does "kitty cornering" mean ?

 

[BrotherBart]

What does "kitty cornering" mean ?

Rotate it so the glass faces out into the room. Helps with clearances and throws the radiant heat from the glass into the room.

 

[KeithO]

Got another quote today on the Jotul F3CB @ $1399 and I think that is the one I will go with. It is a little bigger and has a proper ashpan which is something one would appreciate on a daily basis instead of shoveling out ash. Just a pity they don't have a "proper" black enamel, that blue black is not going to gel with a lot of decor that is out there...

It seems I stand corrected on the enamel. There is a blue and the so called "blue black" is actually pretty black. Close to $300 price difference just for the enamel though, seems a bit steep.

 

[elkimmeg]

Elk, if one cuts shorter the "proper" stovepipe to class A adapter (since the "neck" is at least 6" long) one should eliminate almost all of the radiant heat at the connector itself. See the pic for the supervent adapter.

Keith What I talking about is a custom made pipe That is crimped on sight Say the flue collar is 1" deep and you need 1.5" to fit properly into the class a You would uns a single wall pipe crimped on both ends one side 1" fits into the stove collar the !.5" side crimped fits into the interior of the class A chimney at that point there is no exposed pipe above the flue collar as the class A chimney rest on the flue collar. If you do purchase a stove and need that setup, I will custom make one up and send it to you. Like I said befor it can be done and use the clearances of the Class A pipe which is usually 2"

 

[thechimneysweep]

Keith, given the price you were quoted and your indicated preference for a porcelain finish, it appears that you were looking at PE's porcelain Vista Classic. If you have a look at our corner hearth requirement sketch at (broken link removed to http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/cpacvisc.htm), you'll see the hearth specified for an angled-in-corner installation measures 48" square if you use double-wall connector pipe. It appears that the corner hearth would protrude into your walkway by 2", but that need not be the case: this sketch was drawn with manufactured hearths in mind, 48 x 48 being a standard corner hearth size. If you build your own hearth, you can shorten that side to 46" and still meet the minimum hearth requirements for the Vista or Vista Classic. This would eliminate the intrusion into your walkway, and look much better than the squared-away install shown in your sketch.

Using chimney instead of double-wall connector is not something I'd recommend. Before air shielded double-wall connector was available, we used solid pack chimney for close-clearance installations, and had more than a few instances where the section that attached to the stove buckled due to trapped heat.

 

[jjbaer]

Got another quote today on the Jotul F3CB @ $1399 and I think that is the one I will go with. It is a little bigger and has a proper ashpan which is something one would appreciate on a daily basis instead of shoveling out ash. Just a pity they don't have a "proper" black enamel, that blue black is not going to gel with a lot of decor that is out there...

It seems I stand corrected on the enamel. There is a blue and the so called "blue black" is actually pretty black. Close to $300 price difference just for the enamel though, seems a bit steep.

As I recall, Jotuls enamel is not as bright as other companies enamel so when I bought my Jotul C450 insert I saved $200-300 by getting plain black.........looked very close to the black enamel....