Is it so wrong to want to hug my stove?

[TomatoLover]

Finally figured out how to really work the smoke dragon in the basement and I am in love with that thing. But, now we're having a new Lopi insert installed upstairs, and the smoke dragon will only have to heat 800 square feet instead of 2400. I know that an EPA stove is more efficient and cleaner, but HOW much more efficient and HOW much cleaner? I hate to replace the smoke dragon since it very clearly works (yes, it eats a lot of wood, but we've figured out 10 hour clean burns and it heats 2400 square feet to 75+ degrees when it's 7 degrees outside). I'm in the "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" camp, but is this thing destroying the planet?

 

[Smoke Stack]

Destroying the planet? Yes, you and I, along with everyone else, are slowly destroying the planet. Your one smoke dragon is a miniscule of a concern in regards to the planet as a whole. Your neighbors, though?That would be more of a concern.

If you have the money to upgrade to a more efficient stove then go for it. If money is an issue, and you don't mind gathering more wood EVERY year, then stick with what works.

It is tough to argue the fact; if it ain't broke then don't try to fix it. But I'm a curious fellow and take apart everything just for the fun of it, broke or not.

 

[bsruther]

The difference for me on both points are like night and day. I'm using a lot less wood and my hearth is much, much cleaner. Wife has commented numerous times on how clean the hearth is. I don't know how dirty or inefficient your older stove is so I can't tell you what your results will be.

I have seen a few pics on this forum of very dirty new tech stoves too, for whatever reason, so there's that too.

One thing I have discovered is that with the new stove, if I let the ash level get too high, it's harder to keep the hearth clean. Was like that with the old stove too, worse though.

 

[claydogg84]

I have to tell you, I replaced my "Smoke Dragon" with an EPA stove and I'm still regretting it. That was at least a month ago. Saving the planet comes at a cost, and that cost is ease of use.

 

[begreen]

It is definitely wrong to hug a hot stove.

 

[Warm_in_NH]

My stove is a 2013 hearthstone shelburne EPA stove. It's my first stove, and I have no trouble running it.

There may be a transition phase for those that are rooted in their ways, but if you can learn, adapt, and overcome, you'll be very happy.

 

[branchburner]

You might like your new stove even more, and want to hug it, too. But a word of caution: do so when there is no fire burning.

 

[KindredSpiritzz]

But I'm a curious fellow and take apart everything just for the fun of it, broke or not.

if i do that it's a pretty good bet it's never going to work again.

 

[TomatoLover]

Destroying the planet? Yes, you and I, along with everyone else, are slowly destroying the planet. Your one smoke dragon is a miniscule of a concern in regards to the planet as a whole. Your neighbors, though?That would be more of a concern.

If you have the money to upgrade to a more efficient stove then go for it. If money is an issue, and you don't mind gathering more wood EVERY year, then stick with what works.

It is tough to argue the fact; if it ain't broke then don't try to fix it. But I'm a curious fellow and take apart everything just for the fun of it, broke or not.

The nearest neighbors have fur and walk on all fours, so they might not care.

 

[TomatoLover]

I have to tell you, I replaced my "Smoke Dragon" with an EPA stove and I'm still regretting it. That was at least a month ago. Saving the planet comes at a cost, and that cost is ease of use.

What did you replace it with, if you don't mind me asking? And why do you regret it?

 

[Tenn Dave]

What did you replace it with, if you don't mind me asking? And why do you regret it?

In terms of 'easy to use' EPA stoves, a lot depends on your brand of stove and your particular setup. My stove is a 'set it and forget it' operation. It is so easy even I can do it.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

The Biggest advantage to the EPA stoves i find is so much more control over the heat output. My NON EPA stove needs to be fed constantly to produce even heat. Seems like it used twice as much wood.

 

[Soundchasm]

My 79 Nashua's FB is so big I could probably get my 550 inside it. I don't dare stuff it full and turn it loose 'cause it'd be a few ticks above my "that's awesome" threshold. The free standing Nashua outperforms the Rockland in forgiving dodgy wood, quick starts and massive amounts of raw heat in ten minutes or less. Most of the time I underburn in it and that means it gets the Sooteater every month or two. But I'm still happier with what the old freestander compared to the modern insert. OK, the light show is better on the new insert. But when both are burning well, neither has smoke in the exhaust. Clean ashes out of the Nashua monthly. At least weekly with the Rockland.

I could be talked into a new basement stove if it's a unit that routinely gets 8-12 hour burn times with a CAT. Loading that thing only twice a day would be a real time-saver and would probably lower my wood consumption rate.

During some dark days past I could build a decent fire in the right hand side of the FB and then store damp splits on the left side in the FB. Keep the Sooteater handy. It made perfect sense at the time but a lot less today. It'll have to be a heck of a model for me to get rid of this absolutely well-known consistent performer.

 

[claydogg84]

What did you replace it with, if you don't mind me asking? And why do you regret it?

I replaced a VC Defiant with a Jotul Oslo. Heat output is very similar, but the Oslo doesn't put up with even slightly wet wood, the firebox is much smaller, and the process of getting it burning the secondaries takes nearly 30-40 minutes which can be a problem if I'm running late for work or getting tired and would like to go to bed.

 

[tarzan]

I predict your insert will have trouble living up to the standards you've came to expect from the smoke dragon.

 

[firefighterjake]

Just remember . . . if you do give in and decide to hug your hot stove . . . cool the burn with water for 10-15 minutes and seek medical treatment if needed.

 

[Smoke Stack]

if i do that it's a pretty good bet it's never going to work again.

lol...I have a pretty good success rate. There are those times when I do say: " Man, why did I do that?"

 

[Smoke Stack]

The nearest neighbors have fur and walk on all fours, so they might not care.

You know, Maybe your money would be better spent on insulation, or other projects to 'tighten' things up? Just a thought.

I burn with an old smoke dragon myself. I recently scored a great deal on insulation and I notice a huge difference in wood consumption, along with the obvious benefits.

 

[DTrain]

I replaced a VC Defiant with a Jotul Oslo. Heat output is very similar, but the Oslo doesn't put up with even slightly wet wood, the firebox is much smaller, and the process of getting it burning the secondaries takes nearly 30-40 minutes which can be a problem if I'm running late for work or getting tired and would like to go to bed.

I had a VC Resolute. That thing just flew. It was hard to be in the same room with it sometimes. I too have an Oslo. I'm on year three. Me and my wood has gotten better. You'll get the experience to make it do what you want eventually. Stick with it you'll love it!

 

[TomatoLover]

My 79 Nashua's FB is so big I could probably get my 550 inside it. I don't dare stuff it full and turn it loose 'cause it'd be a few ticks above my "that's awesome" threshold. The free standing Nashua outperforms the Rockland in forgiving dodgy wood, quick starts and massive amounts of raw heat in ten minutes or less. Most of the time I underburn in it and that means it gets the Sooteater every month or two. But I'm still happier with what the old freestander compared to the modern insert. OK, the light show is better on the new insert. But when both are burning well, neither has smoke in the exhaust. Clean ashes out of the Nashua monthly. At least weekly with the Rockland.

I could be talked into a new basement stove if it's a unit that routinely gets 8-12 hour burn times with a CAT. Loading that thing only twice a day would be a real time-saver and would probably lower my wood consumption rate.

During some dark days past I could build a decent fire in the right hand side of the FB and then store damp splits on the left side in the FB. Keep the Sooteater handy. It made perfect sense at the time but a lot less today. It'll have to be a heck of a model for me to get rid of this absolutely well-known consistent performer.

I had been stressing about the creosote build up in this thing so had it swept this week. We've only burned 4 months -- last March and April, and this October and November. The wood that the sellers left for us with the house was really bad, rotten actually. We didn't know that at the time and burned a LOT of wet wood last spring. This fall, we're doing better with the wood. When it was swept this week, even after that really awful wood last spring, there was barely any creosote at all. We burn it hot - always. Which means we get cooked out of the stove room from time to time. I have been getting 10 hour burns because the fire box is enormous. We have yet to stuff it full, and like you, that would be beyond our comfort zone. We find loading in layers, n/s and e/w, with almost two separate loads, one in the back of the box and one in the front, we can get it humming up to 700, turn it down to cruise around 650 for a few hours, and then it will slowly start dropping down in temp, but still hot coals for a relight 10 hours later. And because I'm insane, I constantly go out and check the chimney for smoke. For about 10 minutes after loading, there is smoke. From that point on, there is nothing. It's actually disappointing, because I want to smell the wood burning when I'm outside and after the first 10 minutes, you'd never know from the outside we're heating with wood (well, except for the miles of wood stacked everywhere). Makes me think we'll keep this old thing.

 

[TomatoLover]

I replaced a VC Defiant with a Jotul Oslo. Heat output is very similar, but the Oslo doesn't put up with even slightly wet wood, the firebox is much smaller, and the process of getting it burning the secondaries takes nearly 30-40 minutes which can be a problem if I'm running late for work or getting tired and would like to go to bed.

We're going to have a similar adjustment. The firebox of our new Republic is less than half the size of the dragon and the dragon heats fast! We came home from Thanksgiving weekend to find that the power had been out for 56 hours while we were away (so backup electric baseboard never ran). The house was around 50 degrees inside, and within 2 hours of firing up the dragon, the stove room was back up to 80. Within a few more hours, the entire house (2400 sq. ft.) was back into the comfort zone. I don't know if that is the norm from a stove, but I think that is when I fell in love with that thing. Friends using propane or oil forced air systems were still sitting in cold homes while we were nice and toasty.

 

[TomatoLover]

I predict your insert will have trouble living up to the standards you've came to expect from the smoke dragon.

Uh oh. Should I be afraid?

We'll be nicer to the new insert. We won't run it as hard as we run the dragon and it won't have to carry the load alone. I'm hoping it can at least do what we ask of it on less wood than the dragon consumes.

 

[TomatoLover]

You know, Maybe your money would be better spent on insulation, or other projects to 'tighten' things up? Just a thought.

I burn with an old smoke dragon myself. I recently scored a great deal on insulation and I notice a huge difference in wood consumption, along with the obvious benefits.

Excellent point about insulation. We actually just finished installing all new insulation in the attic and it made an amazing difference. We also have all new windows and doors and had an energy audit down to look for leaks, etc. So I think the house is OK. Perhaps we should spend the money on a vacation to a warm island sometime in March when we're sick of winter?

 

[tarzan]

Uh oh. Should I be afraid?

We'll be nicer to the new insert. We won't run it as hard as we run the dragon and it won't have to carry the load alone. I'm hoping it can at least do what we ask of it on less wood than the dragon consumes.

No. Don't be afraid at all! Do your homework, a proper install with insulation and a block off plate is critical with an insert. There will also be a learning curve as it is totally different to run than the smoke dragon. Hang around here, read for a few more weeks and you will probably be a pro before the first match is struck.

What size insert do you plan to get? There are lots of benefits to having the insert and keeping the smoke dragon in the basement.

The ambiance and convenience alone will be worth a lot.

 

[TomatoLover]

No. Don't be afraid at all! Do your homework, a proper install with insulation and a block off plate is critical with an insert. There will also be a learning curve as it is totally different to run than the smoke dragon. Hang around here, read for a few more weeks and you will probably be a pro before the first match is struck.

What size insert do you plan to get? There are lots of benefits to having the insert and keeping the smoke dragon in the basement.

The ambiance and convenience alone will be worth a lot.

We're having a Lopi Republic 1750i professionally installed (insulated flue, block off plate, etc.) next week to share the load with the dragon. We have a beautiful stone fireplace upstairs that just sits there like a black hole, so that's where the insert will go. I am really looking forward to the ambiance and the fact that it will have a glass door (since the dragon does not, and it's always a mystery what is going on in that firebox). The Lopi should be able to heat the level it is on and then some. What we're hoping for is more even heat distribution. In order to heat the entire house, the dragon must run like the gates of hell, which means the stove room (my office) sits at about 90 degrees and the bedrooms farthest from the stove are 70. Main living areas stay a cozy 75 degrees. We're hoping that we won't have to run the dragon as much, since we also have a weird phenomena with all of the exposed brick walls in the stove room (the bricks must absorb the heat, and then release the heat for hours after the dragon goes to sleep, keeping the lower level warm for hours). In a perfect world, the dragon will not need to run 24/7 to heat the lower level and the Lopi can carry the load upstairs, using less wood than the dragon alone. We'll see how this works out....if it doesn't work, it will be a really expensive mistake.