Is this Ash and Emerald Ash Borer Damage?
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Even if it is standing dead will rot? It is a HUGE tree and was hoping it would fall soon on its own
kennyp2339
Minister of Fire
standing dead - you should be fine with no rot, maybe a few branches and the bottom of the trunk will get soupy, but chances are is the trunk starts rotting the tree will fall anyway, I'd do what you doing, just wait it out as long as no property damage or life hazard exists.
That is what I was hoping. Got way too much to do at the moment and processing that ash wasn't in my fall plans although I don't want to lose the firewood.
ohlongarm
Minister of Fire
I've heard that ash rots quickly many times on this forum,I have an ash tree that fell 10 years ago in my ravine,and today I could go cut wood from it that can be burnt efficiently in a woodstove,am I missing something?I wil lpost a pic of this tree within a day or so,I'm confused now.
i should know better than to type in absolutes here.
let me rephrase my post.
yes, it appears to be ash borer damage. by the amount of exposed wood in your pictures i assume your tree has been dead for a season or two already. in my experience with borer killed ash trees in a woodland setting such as yours 1 year is all it takes for mycelium(rot) to take advantage of the exposed wounds(borer holes, woodpecker eating said borers) on that tree (standing or lying makes no difference). your woodlot looks like it could support a healthy population of mycelium with all the other deadfall and damaged trees, i am not certain with your northern climate though. ever see mushrooms on the forest floor, fallen branches, stumps?
you may prolong the inevitable by stripping the bark off and reducing the moisture holding qualities of that tree. things dont rot (as fast) without moisture(mycelium doesnt grow(as fast)). you might as well css if you plan on that much work, IMO
my recommendation is to process this tree as soon as you are willing and able. i have had ash trees(30"+ dbh) killed by the borer and snapped 15-20' up due to rot(mycelium). these tops are now hung into a neighboring tree and the area is too dangerous to cut in. this tree is also useless now since i cant get to it with large equip and remove the 24" snag hanging above my head. lot of wood in a 30" 70' forest grown ash.
"make hay while the sun shines", "get it while the gettin is good", "dont put off until tomorrow what can be done today", whatever cliche you want to use...
works for me.
let me rephrase my post.
yes, it appears to be ash borer damage. by the amount of exposed wood in your pictures i assume your tree has been dead for a season or two already. in my experience with borer killed ash trees in a woodland setting such as yours 1 year is all it takes for mycelium(rot) to take advantage of the exposed wounds(borer holes, woodpecker eating said borers) on that tree (standing or lying makes no difference). your woodlot looks like it could support a healthy population of mycelium with all the other deadfall and damaged trees, i am not certain with your northern climate though. ever see mushrooms on the forest floor, fallen branches, stumps?
you may prolong the inevitable by stripping the bark off and reducing the moisture holding qualities of that tree. things dont rot (as fast) without moisture(mycelium doesnt grow(as fast)). you might as well css if you plan on that much work, IMO
my recommendation is to process this tree as soon as you are willing and able. i have had ash trees(30"+ dbh) killed by the borer and snapped 15-20' up due to rot(mycelium). these tops are now hung into a neighboring tree and the area is too dangerous to cut in. this tree is also useless now since i cant get to it with large equip and remove the 24" snag hanging above my head. lot of wood in a 30" 70' forest grown ash.
"make hay while the sun shines", "get it while the gettin is good", "dont put off until tomorrow what can be done today", whatever cliche you want to use...
works for me.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
All reports here indicate that EAB ash trees can become dangerous to drop if left standing dead for a few years. Search it here, but more than one story of them exploding unpredictably when a saw is put to them, if left standing too long.
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Hasufel
Feeling the Heat
NE Ohio is one of the "dampest" places in the US, which is a reflection of the % of the time it's precipitating in some form (as opposed to total rainfall). Presumably that encourages rot, but I'm not sure if it fully explains the ash phenomenon mentioned here.
CincyBurner
Minister of Fire
I can't quite make out the shape of exit hole from your pic.
For a firm ID look at the exit holes:
* D-shaped in ash trees is confirmation for EAB. Pull bark. EAB limits itself to the phloem (just beneath bark) and will have S-shaped galleries, and "emerald ash borer larvae pack their frass tightly within their galleries". There is a good pic on linked OSU factsheet below - very characteristic. EAB infests healthy ash too.
* oval shaped in ash is indicative for red-headed borer, a native borer. "Redheaded ash borer infestations can also be distinguished from EAB by the presence of large (1/4–3/8 inch wide) oval exit holes that extend deep into the trunk." They are are less strongly S-shaped and the galleries are sparser. They Infest weakened trees and freshly cut trees.
This is good link to distinguish between borers: http://ohioline.osu.edu/factsheet/ent-77
I reaffirm Ashful's warning about felling ash that's been dead for some time, or for an unknown period. Decay quickly alters (and in uneven and various parts of tree) altering and making its strength unpredictable. Add other factors (e.g. lean) and it can be hazardous, even for professional cutters. If not familiar with dropping EAB infested trees, perhaps it's best to pass it up and look for easier and safer pickings.
I guess I just don't understand why dead ash is more dangerous than say a dead hickory of the same size? What I see here, hickory and beech probably rot the quickest, standing dead or on the ground.....oak, maple and ash seems to "last" longer. I don't mess with the big ones as posted by the OP, because I just don't have to, plenty of smaller, easier stuff to process for me to be had.....
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Woody Stover
Minister of Fire
Timberwolf530
Member
Ash is no more dangerous to cut than any other tree. The longer it's been dead, the more dangerous it is because you can't always see the rotted areas from the outside. Ash borers only "bore" through the bark. They create channels between the bark and wood that kills the capillaries that carry water through out the tree. That's why the trees die. They do nothing that would make a tree explode. I've cut Ash that's been standing dead for 2-3 years, and have heard of those that have taken them even longer. The tree will start to lose its bark in about a year, and after 2, most of it will either be gone or about to fall off. This actually helps to slow the rotting process. Like any dead tree, care should be taken, and a clear escape route should be cleared because they can be unpredictable, especially the branches which are the weakest part of a dead tree, and most prone to falling at weird angles. Ash trees don't scare me any more than any other tree though.
lost in the woods
Burning Hunk
my experience with felling ash trees is this- ash is a very straight grained wood fiber. . . . the issue is hinge strength. often times your hinge will just snap/break while the tree is falling; especially on dead trees where the wood is more 'brittle.' In contrast, the wood in your oak trees isn't near as brittle I guess because the wood structure is different. the hinge on oak can flex and twist alittle more than ash, giving you more control as your tree is falling. remember your hingewood is a big part of what dictates where the tree is going. so if that snaps off before the tree has made up its mind where its going. you just lost all control.
beatlefan
Feeling the Heat
If I were to pick one word to describe a standing dead ash, it would be "unpredictable."
I've felled some that were dead for 2-3 years and the wood was solid as a rock. However, I had a 100 footer that was only dead a year lose a 30 foot section that came through the roof of my house. That section of the tree was clearly rotten. I dropped the rest of the tree and the majority of it was still good, while in other areas the wood was like powder.
I've felled some that were dead for 2-3 years and the wood was solid as a rock. However, I had a 100 footer that was only dead a year lose a 30 foot section that came through the roof of my house. That section of the tree was clearly rotten. I dropped the rest of the tree and the majority of it was still good, while in other areas the wood was like powder.
CincyBurner
Minister of Fire
That's a good observation. The ash tree doesn't immediately succumb to EAB, but typically sustains years (3-5 yrs.) of progressive attack, much of which can go unobserved, yet accrueing progressive amounts/ years of deadwood. Initial EAB infestation occurs at the tops of trees. If EAB infestation pressure is not heavy it might be several years before the trunk is attacked while portions of the top have already been attacked and are beginning to decay. Once infested that part or the tree is now open to decay pathogens.
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