Is this install correct?

[jklein999]

Hi - I just had a wood burning stove installed. I know nothing about construction or fireplaces. The company built the box at the top w/metal sheeting. They sealed it really poorly - like I could put an entire finger in between the ceiling and the metal. I called them, they came back out and took what they did out and put new in. It looked better. The inspector came out and said that while it was ok, they still missed sealing it in about 5 spots. They came back to do the finish on it today and I asked them to seal everywhere that wasn't sealed - I pointed out some of the places but it was pretty obvious. The inspector said this was fairly important as we don't want any fumes out of it. They finished sealing it, but this little corner at the bottom of the box doesn't have any sealant on it. I asked them about it and they said it's ok as it's just where two pieces of metal meet and there is metal behind it (they attached this metal on top of other metal) so there is no gap to the attic space above, and that there is sealant behind it. I'm not certain I buy this, as metal isn't a sealant and if this is on top of other metal, it should still be sealed..... is this something I need to make them now take off the cement board and seal this? It's all closed up so harder to get to now......

 

[begreen]

Sorry to say this but that is really bad, not even close to code legal. The inspector should have called out this entire job. He should not be inspecting. Seeing this mess, I am positive the rest is also not right, starting with using galvanized duct for the stovepipe. The whole thing looks like it needs to be redone and I would not let these hacks near my house.

What is it like on the other side of the ceiling and roof?

 

[jklein999]

Sorry to say this but that is really bad, not even close to code legal. The inspector should have called out this entire job. He should not be inspecting. Seeing this mess, I am positive the rest is also not right, starting with using galvanized duct for the stovepipe. The whole thing looks like it needs to be redone and I would not let these hacks near my house.

What is it like on the other side of the ceiling and roof?

The inspector just said that as long as I made sure they sealed the holes we'd be good. He also looked on the roof, but who knows what's up there. I'll try to have a look this weekend.

Can you explain more of what's wrong with it - I have zero idea about any of this and if I just call and complain and say it's wrong, they will not listen to me....

Also, this is not a freestanding stove, it will all be enclosed. I don't care what it looks like inside of the wall as long as it's safe and won't burn my house down.

Thanks!

 

[begreen]

To start with, all components need to be UL listed and rated for wood stove use. In the picture shown, none are. In order to give a more comprehensive list, we need to see all the work, from the stove to the chimney cap.

Note that there are some very strict safety rules regarding clearances for enclosed stoves so we will need the stove make and model and details on the plan for the enclosure too.

 

[bholler]

The inspector just said that as long as I made sure they sealed the holes we'd be good. He also looked on the roof, but who knows what's up there. I'll try to have a look this weekend.

Can you explain more of what's wrong with it - I have zero idea about any of this and if I just call and complain and say it's wrong, they will not listen to me....

Also, this is not a freestanding stove, it will all be enclosed. I don't care what it looks like inside of the wall as long as it's safe and won't burn my house down.

Thanks!

Can you post some pictures of the whole install? I am not really clear what I am looking at but what ever it is it is very sloppy work

 

[jklein999]

They have already enclosed it, looks like I'm going to be removing the cement board to take a look and will post more pics. What I posted here is just the pipe at the very top that they put a box around, they created the box by hand and then put a bunch of that grey stuff around it to seal it. My main question was the little hole in the bottom of the box that wasn't sealed with the grey, but now I'm questioning all of it.

 

[bholler]

They have already enclosed it, looks like I'm going to be removing the cement board to take a look and will post more pics. What I posted here is just the pipe at the very top that they put a box around, they created the box by hand and then put a bunch of that grey stuff around it to seal it. My main question was the little hole in the bottom of the box that wasn't sealed with the grey, but now I'm questioning all of it.

I am assuming that box is serving as a firestop. But the firestop should be a listed part provided by the chimney manufacturer as part of their system. And they would have had to frame a flat opening to mount that to.

 

[brenndatomu]

but now I'm questioning all of it.

As you should...so far this looks to be one of the worst installs I remember seeing on here...

 

[begreen]

I am assuming that box is serving as a firestop. But the firestop should be a listed part provided by the chimney manufacturer as part of their system. And they would have had to frame a flat opening to mount that to.

It looks more like a ceiling penetration, but I could be wrong. We need more descriptive information from jklein on this installation and a full picture showing the stove and the other side of this box.

 

[Prof]

About 5 yrs ago I built a house. As a result I became familiar with building code. As bhollar and begreen stated, this isn't right. Inspectors are just about useless. In PA, they make you sign an agreement stating that they have no liability in the build--yet they still charge a grand for the inspection for which they assume no responsibility. What you have is no where near code. Having a certified chimney guy come out and inspect it would verify this in all likelihood.

 

[bholler]

It looks more like a ceiling penetration, but I could be wrong. We need more descriptive information from jklein on this installation and a full picture showing the stove and the other side of this box.

It is a ceiling penetration for sure but I am assuming this is for a zero clearance fireplace and chimney which typically just use a firestop at that point. But I completely agree we need more pics and description. I could be completely off base

 

[jklein999]

Here is the list of what was installed. It was a zero clearance fireplace, I believe. Osburn Stratford II. We are tight on space and it's installed in a corner.

I'll try to get pictures in the morning, but yes the photo I posted is of the firestop box that they manually built. They put a 2x4 inside of it and I believe that's what they attached it to. Sounds wrong. It needs to be completely sealed in, correct? No holes anywhere? I have no idea why they didn't install a pre-fabricated firebox. When you hire a fireplace company, you expect them to know what they are doing.

I called the company that sold the stove and piping to me (separate company from installer) and they said that they get everything from the same distributor, so it's all items that are approved to be installed with the stove I purchased. I've read that Galvanized is controversial, but it seems like it's typically what's used in Colorado. So I'm probably stuck with that. Regardless, I'll try to get better photos.

It's pouring down rain in Colorado tonight and (wait for it)..... there is a drip coming in from somewhere. Also, they took out my old fireplace from a different location and fashioned some sort of square cap out of metal. That one is leaking really bad. They are coming out tomorrow to fix the leaks but I'd like to have something to tell them as far as what's actually been done wrong so that they can fix it. First thing in the morning I'm going to have my husband remove the cement board that they have installed, we're too overwhelmed tonight to do it.

 

[PA Mountain Man]

https://www.mtlfab.com/media/All-Fuel_Chimney_and_Black_Stove_Pipe_Brochure-L898.pdf

 

[jklein999]

Hi All - I really appreciate your help. I have more photos and a video for you. There's a lot going on and I'll try to explain all of my concerns and use the correct terminology. Last night I was just concerned about the firebox not being fully sealed but it's turned into a way bigger issue with everything. What I'm concerned with is safety (don't want the house to burn down) and it not leaking (rain and/or smoke). It doesn't need to look pretty at this point.

Scope of project: We had a wood burning stove in one location. They removed that and removed the firebox and capped it off outside. I told them I didn't care what/how they did it, just wanted it to not leak. That was really my only direction to them. We wanted another fireplace installed (Osburn Stratford II) in another location.

Concerns:
1. Old stove removal: I have pics from the inside and outside. Last night we had a monster rain storm, rain blowing sideways etc. I think probably a gallon of water leaked in and was just dripping on the floor. It was a constant stream, not one little drop here or there. He came out to configure a new cap and "re-seal" that today and you can see the photo of the outside. It looks awful. But again, I don't so much care about that as I care about it not leaking. Would there have been a better way to do this than him cut some sheet metal and put some caulk/whatever he used to glue it down? This will be the first three pics. The first one is from inside the house, there is about 2-3 feet of attic space between the ceiling and the roof. It's going to rain the next two days so I'll see if his fix worked.

2. They added the cement board to the outside of the structure. Just this morning I noticed that it doesn't appear to be even and they shimmed it with some metal. I'm thinking they need to remove what they did, cut the boards so it's level, and then no need for the shim. Agree? That much of a shim seems like something bad waiting to happen (cement board breaking, etc). We plan to cover that ledge with large stone, but I still think we should make them fix this? Just sloppy construction. This is photos 4, 5, and 6 below.

3. Last night with all of the rain there was a bead of water dripping down in the new piping. We can't figure out where it was coming from exactly but in one of the photos my husband is pointing to where he thinks it might be originating. He works in commercial HVAC, so he typically has a good guess on things but isn't familiar with fireplaces. Video of the drip here.
https://youtube.com/shorts/lbvXUYISZwI?feature=share
The guy came to fix it today. His "fix" for the drip was to tape off the holes in the flashing. You know, the holes that are there for a reason. I'm 99% sure this is a totally wrong fix, and that the tape needs to come off. Maybe someone can see something in the photos of where they think it could be leaking in? My husband told him that wasn't an acceptable fix, but what do us homeowners know? If someone can explain why they holes are needed so we can tell them why that fix isn't ok that would be great. He said the holes weren't necessary anyway and that's the only place it could be leaking..... The next set of photos are all of the outside installation.

4. Inside installation - We took the cement board off of the top section and I can still poke my finger between the ceiling and the firebox. The firebox needs to be completely sealed, correct? Also, I can't figure out why they made their own firebox. This is his third attempt at sealing it. If they bought a pre-fabricated one (assuming they exist for angled ceilings) I'm guessing it would be a lot easier to seal. Am I on the right track on this part? I'm attached pics of the firebox. You can't really see the holes but they are there. At least 2 of them for sure and I'm guessing more.

5. I've included more pics of the inside installation, including the insulation shield and looking down at the top of the stove. Anything you see wrong with that part - and by wrong I mean fire hazard.

Thanks in advance for all of the help. We are remodeling the entire house and this is just the latest thing to go wrong with a professional who doesn't seem to know what they are doing so we are kind of at a breaking point with this fireplace mess. Any specifics we can tell them of things that are wrong would be very helpful.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the detailed update. It is very helpful and not quite as bad as the limited first shot would indicate. The ZC chimney pipe explains why I saw galvanized and is ok in this regard because it is chimney pipe, not stovepipe. Bholler is correct about the firestop (not a firebox) and yes, the corner should be sealed. Chimney pipe must be at least 2" from any combustible, be that 2x4s, rafters or the roof decking. The roof brace looks like it should be higher, at 5' above the roof.

The cap on the removed stove pipe is pathetic. It looks like someone blew their nose on it. Sloppy work. A standard cap would have provided a tighter fit and cleaner finish, but I would have removed the flashing entirely, patched the hole and reshingled over it for a proper, watertite job. You may want to have a roofer come over to do this right. It may be above the installer's ability.

 

[jklein999]

Thanks for the detailed update. It is very helpful and not quite as bad as the limited first shot would indicate. The ZC chimney pipe explains why I saw galvanized and is ok in this regard because it is chimney pipe, not stovepipe. Bholler is correct about the firestop (not a firebox) and yes, the corner should be sealed. Chimney pipe must be at least 2" from any combustible, be that 2x4s, rafters or the roof decking. The roof brace looks like it should be higher, at 5' above the roof.

The cap on the removed stove pipe is pathetic. It looks like someone blew their nose on it. Sloppy work. A standard cap would have provided a tighter fit and cleaner finish, but I would have removed the flashing entirely, patched the hole and reshingled over it for a proper, watertite job. You may want to have a roofer come over to do this right. It may be above the installer's ability.

Thanks! What about the holes in the flashing that they just taped over? Is that an acceptable fix? If not, why are the holes needed? He told my husband the holes weren't necessary so we need to tell him why they are if they are.

 

[begreen]

Do you mean under the storm collar? They should not be taped off. That's bogus.

 

[jklein999]

Do you mean under the storm collar? They should not be taped off. That's bogus.

Correct under the storm collar. We had a few tiny drops of water leaking down the pipe and that was their "fix". They said the holes weren't necessary but my guess is that they are 100% necessary and something else is actually leaking. I just need to tell them why the holes shouldn't be taped off since they obviously don't know.

 

[stoveliker]

I think those holes are to allow the heat to escape from between the metal walls.
If that collar above the holes is put in place correctly, then no water could go in there anyway -that's what that collar is for.

 

[moresnow]

That contractor can't possibly be in the stove/chimney installation business as his main line? No way. I'd boot him out. Get a pro involved to insure your homes integrity and safety.

 

[jklein999]

That contractor can't possibly be in the stove/chimney installation business as his main line? No way. I'd boot him out. Get a pro involved to insure your homes integrity and safety.

Yep, this is a company that installs stoves. The place I bought the stove from uses them as their installer. They install, clean, etc. I don't think wood burning stoves are super popular though, so they probably work a lot more with gas.

 

[AlwaysStacking]

Look at page 33 of your owners manual - you should have steel studs directly above the fireplace for framing, not 2x4's as seen in your pictures.

 

[Caw]

Yikes, a lot going on here. I'd be extremely hesitant to fire up that stove without getting another professional out there. I'm sure it's going to cost a bunch of extra $ but you can't be too safe when bringing fire into your home.

 

[clancey]

I would not trust any of that work and would tear it out and start from scratch------------its terrible. I do not know a lot about fireplaces and pipes going through attics but it is soooo sloppy and not cared about----------I would tear it all out and start over again----------take a break from it and try to get your money back-----tell Tom Martino---put him on the trail------------so sorry.. I just spent some money on a new wood stove in my porch and have not used it as of yet---new at this and a old woman needing some fortitude here and right now it is not important for me to light for I only put it in because I wanted a back up in case of an emergency with the grid or something like what happened in Texas but I feel for you and your wife...The job looks terrible to me and in my opinion it does not even look safe and I can imagine carbon dioxide leaking out of it as well...Try to get your money back and take a break from it and recuperate ---take plenty of pictures like you are doing and call Tom Martino and see what he says on the radio or write to him involving the financial aspect of all of this..So sorry...clancey

 

[John Galt]

The roof leak at the new chimney could be from the shingles not being cut far enough away from the storm collar. There should be a channel for the water to run down. With the shingles touching, the water running down gets diverted by the collar and then runs under the side shingles increasing the chance of a leak. Compounding that are the large globs of caulk that can allow the water to head in unpredictable directions. Roof leaks never get better on their own. It's the water that gets in but doesn't pour into the living area that will cause rot and mold. Those repairs are the expensive ones.