Is this new cap and cover install okay?

[HughMungus]

I just had a new cap put on my liner and got a stainless steel chase cover put on over the old mortar cap.

I went to inspect everything, and it doesn't look ideal to me. I'm no pro, though. What do y'all think?

First, the chase cover isn't level. One corner is really high up. You can see it visually from afar, plus I included a picture of where the bubble sits when I measure it. You can also see that this corner is kind of bent up and dented, as though maybe it caught on the corner of the chimney when they were trying to set it on. They need to fix this, right? Is the bent/dented part enough to require a whole new chase cover? I doubt it, but just asking.

Second, the top of the new cap doesn't seem to be level. I couldn't get the level to sit on it to test it, but visually it looks off to me. This isn't a big deal, is it?

The caulk also seems a bit sloppy in general. It should get the job done though, right?

 

[bholler]

It looks decent but I would like to see a flange around the linersgoing up and tucking under the cap. The caulk will eventually fail. I also would have taken the clay down flush and then attached the liner top plate to the chimney top plate. The stickers are no problem at all we leave them on all the time also. One concern I have is what is the stainless liner for? If it is a wood stove I think you may have trouble with that cap clogging up it is pretty restrictive

 

[HughMungus]

It looks decent but I would like to see a flange around the linersgoing up and tucking under the cap. The caulk will eventually fail. I also would have taken the clay down flush and then attached the liner top plate to the chimney top plate. The stickers are no problem at all we leave them on all the time also. One concern I have is what is the stainless liner for? If it is a wood stove I think you may have trouble with that cap clogging up it is pretty restrictive

The liner is for a wood burning fireplace insert. I think the picture angles don't show how open it really is. It's a fairly normal looking Guardian cap, but we added a wind barrier option out of an abundance of caution. The dealer said this was the least restrictive if the wind-protected devices they have.

I've attached a picture of what the cap looks like without the wind barrier. This pic isn't from the exact model, but it's the first thing I found on Google images and it looks pretty much identical.

There are several inches between the mesh and the solid wind guard. That should be enough, right? I can get up and take a better pic if necessary.

 

[HughMungus]

It looks decent but I would like to see a flange around the linersgoing up and tucking under the cap. The caulk will eventually fail. I also would have taken the clay down flush and then attached the liner top plate to the chimney top plate. The stickers are no problem at all we leave them on all the time also. One concern I have is what is the stainless liner for? If it is a wood stove I think you may have trouble with that cap clogging up it is pretty restrictive

I hit reply too soon. I also meant to ask what I can do about the other concerns you have. I don't I'll be able to get them to redo the plate with flanges, flush cut the tile, etc. without a bunch of extra cost since I didn't request it to begin with.

How serious are these concerns, and what can I do to minimize risks?

This is what the installs look like that I've seen around here, so I didn't think to ask for all that. I should have asked y'all first, huh?

 

[HughMungus]

Oh, and what about it being so unlevel. I'm going to ask if they can fix either way, as it looks really bad, but does that have no functional concerns?

 

[webby3650]

It's out of level because it's sitting on your old crown, that's not flat and likely not level. When they fastened it down it took the shape of the crown under it. Ideally they would have held it level and fastened it through the side. But if it's way out of square that poses problems too. Hard to say for sure. I'd also replace that old steel cap before it stains everything with rust.

 

[bholler]

The liner is for a wood burning fireplace insert. I think the picture angles don't show how open it really is. It's a fairly normal looking Guardian cap, but we added a wind barrier option out of an abundance of caution. The dealer said this was the least restrictive if the wind-protected devices they have.

I've attached a picture of what the cap looks like without the wind barrier. This pic isn't from the exact model, but it's the first thing I found on Google images and it looks pretty much identical.

There are several inches between the mesh and the solid wind guard. That should be enough, right? I can get up and take a better pic if necessary.

Yes I know what it is and yes it is restrictive. Just keep an eye on it it may be fine.

Oh, and what about it being so unlevel. I'm going to ask if they can fix either way, as it looks really bad, but does that have no functional concerns?

You don't want it perfectly level if it was it would not shed water. But that does look pretty crooked. It also would have been better if it was large enough to shed water past the corbeled section as well.

 

[webby3650]

Yes I know what it is and yes it is restrictive. Just keep an eye on it it may be fine.


You don't want it perfectly level if it was it would not shed water. But that does look pretty crooked. It also would have been better if it was large enough to shed water past the corbeled section as well.

Do you see that style often in your area? They are everywhere around here! A bell on a chimney serves a purpose, to corbel out and then back in is so silly! It's always an issue.

 

[bholler]

Do you see that style often in your area? They are everywhere around here! A bell on a chimney serves a purpose, to corbel out and then back in is so silly! It's always an issue.

What style? Corbeled out and then back in? If so yeah we see a fair number of them and many have water infiltration issues

 

[webby3650]

What style? Corbeled out and then back in? If so yeah we see a fair number of them and many have water infiltration issues

Ya! I don't get it. Almost everyone I see has an issue with water. Many have spent tons of money trying to fix it but never addressed the elephant in the room.

 

[HughMungus]

It's out of level because it's sitting on your old crown, that's not flat and likely not level. When they fastened it down it took the shape of the crown under it.

I seem to remember the mortar crown underneath sloping down at all edges and corners, so I didn't think one corner would be high like that.

Ideally they would have held it level and fastened it through the side.

From the big globs of caulk on top, I'm assuming they fastened it through the top and not the sides. Is that a big problem?

I'd also replace that old steel cap before it stains everything with rust.

I hadn't thought of that. They quoted me $80 on a new cap. Is that decent? I'd prefer to buy one and install it myself, since there's no expertise involved there. Do you recommend a particular website/brand/model/etc.? The flue is 13"x13". What about this one at Lowes for $50? http://www.lowes.com/pd/Shelter-13-in-W-x-13-in-L-Stainless-Steel-Square-Chimney-Cap/1005851

 

[HughMungus]

Yes I know what it is and yes it is restrictive. Just keep an eye on it it may be fine.

Sorry, I should have known you would know what it is. By restrictive, do you mean it might make it hard to get a good draft? What symptoms do I need to watch for to know whether it is too tight?

Also, is it just the wind plate that is too restrictive, or is there something wrong with this cap even if I take off the wind guard?

It also would have been better if it was large enough to shed water past the corbeled section as well.

Do you see that style often in your area? They are everywhere around here! A bell on a chimney serves a purpose, to corbel out and then back in is so silly! It's always an issue.

What style? Corbeled out and then back in? If so yeah we see a fair number of them and many have water infiltration issues

Ya! I don't get it. Almost everyone I see has an issue with water. Many have spent tons of money trying to fix it but never addressed the elephant in the room.

I'm a neophyte and getting lost here. There's a problem with my chimney? How do I fix it?

They had told me the plate would be designed to ensure rain would not drip onto the brick. You're saying that it will drip onto the brick? If so, that kind of defeats the whole reason we got the new chase cover (we were getting too much moisture in).

I'm getting the impression that I need to try to convince them to completely do this all over again from scratch. Is that right?

 

[HughMungus]

It's out of level because it's sitting on your old crown, that's not flat and likely not level. When they fastened it down it took the shape of the crown under it. Ideally they would have held it level and fastened it through the side. But if it's way out of square that poses problems too. Hard to say for sure. I'd also replace that old steel cap before it stains everything with rust.

Ya! I don't get it. Almost everyone I see has an issue with water. Many have spent tons of money trying to fix it but never addressed the elephant in the room.

Sorry, I should have known you would know what it is. By restrictive, do you mean it might make it hard to get a good draft? What symptoms do I need to watch for to know whether it is too tight?

Also, is it just the wind plate that is too restrictive, or is there something wrong with this cap even if I take off the wind guard?









I'm a neophyte and getting lost here. There's a problem with my chimney? How do I fix it?

They had told me the plate would be designed to ensure rain would not drip onto the brick. You're saying that it will drip onto the brick? If so, that kind of defeats the whole reason we got the new chase cover (we were getting too much moisture in).

I'm getting the impression that I need to try to convince them to completely do this all over again from scratch. Is that right?

I seem to remember the mortar crown underneath sloping down at all edges and corners, so I didn't think one corner would be high like that.



From the big globs of caulk on top, I'm assuming they fastened it through the top and not the sides. Is that a big problem?



I hadn't thought of that. They quoted me $80 on a new cap. Is that decent? I'd prefer to buy one and install it myself, since there's no expertise involved there. Do you recommend a particular website/brand/model/etc.? The flue is 13"x13". What about this one at Lowes for $50? http://www.lowes.com/pd/Shelter-13-in-W-x-13-in-L-Stainless-Steel-Square-Chimney-Cap/1005851

Any thoughts on any of this? Is this a good rain cap? Do I need to insist that they make a new chase cover due to the corbel issues?

 

[HughMungus]

Yes I know what it is and yes it is restrictive. Just keep an eye on it it may be fine.


You don't want it perfectly level if it was it would not shed water. But that does look pretty crooked. It also would have been better if it was large enough to shed water past the corbeled section as well.

What do you mean by "restrictive" and "clogged"? Is this something where you think it might not draft well enough, or do you think it will literally physically clog up with creosote?

I thought these types were common for inserts. What should I have used instead?

 

[HughMungus]

Can you describe this flange a bit more, and do you have any pics or illustrations?

It looks decent but I would like to see a flange around the linersgoing up and tucking under the cap. The caulk will eventually fail.

 

[HughMungus]

Ya! I don't get it. Almost everyone I see has an issue with water. Many have spent tons of money trying to fix it but never addressed the elephant in the room.

So, what is the fix? Have the curve at the bottom of the cap's sides curve out further?

Regarding the rusty rain cap, I initially didn't have it replaced because they wiped $80 for a new one, plus I didn't think about the rusty getting on the chase cap. I found this one at Lowe's for $50, is there any reason it wouldn't work, and if so what would you recommend instead? http://www.lowes.com/pd/Shelter-13-in-W-x-13-in-L-Stainless-Steel-Square-Chimney-Cap/1005851

 

[bholler]

What do you mean by "restrictive" and "clogged"? Is this something where you think it might not draft well enough, or do you think it will literally physically clog up with creosote?

It will probably draft fine as long as your chimney is not on the short side but yes with the mesh behind that wind block like that I have seen many of them that have issues with clogging.

Can you describe this flange a bit more, and do you have any pics or illustrations?

A lip of stainless sticking up around the liners then you would clamp a storm collar around the liner overlaping that lip sticking up or it can just extend up and be covered by the lip on the cap. That way you are not just relying on caulk which will eventually fail

 

[HughMungus]

It's out of level because it's sitting on your old crown, that's not flat and likely not level. When they fastened it down it took the shape of the crown under it. Ideally they would have held it level and fastened it through the side. But if it's way out of square that poses problems too. Hard to say for sure. I'd also replace that old steel cap before it stains everything with rust.

They said they had to screw in through the top because the bricks were too fragile our something like that. Is that the end of the world?

If they really can't screw in from the sides, does that mean I need to reapply caulk every few years or what?

 

[bholler]

So, what is the fix? Have the curve at the bottom of the cap's sides curve out further?

What we would have done is to take off the top courses of brick that step back in but you could also make the top plate bigger and the sides extend down further to cover that top section. I dont think that looks very good though.

Regarding the rusty rain cap, I initially didn't have it replaced because they wiped $80 for a new one, plus I didn't think about the rusty getting on the chase cap. I found this one at Lowe's for $50, is there any reason it wouldn't work, and if so what would you recommend instead? http://www.lowes.com/pd/Shelter-13-in-W-x-13-in-L-Stainless-Steel-Square-Chimney-Cap/1005851

$80 is way less than we charge for one installed they must be using some pretty cheap ones. That one you linked to will work but it is pretty flimsy.

 

[HughMungus]

It will probably draft fine as long as your chimney is not on the short side but yes with the mesh behind that wind block like that I have seen many of them that have issues with clogging.


A lip of stainless sticking up around the liners then you would clamp a storm collar around the liner overlaping that lip sticking up or it can just extend up and be covered by the lip on the cap. That way you are not just relying on caulk which will eventually fail

Thank you for the info.

In regard to the flange, is that even something that can be fixed/changed now without tearing everything up excessively?

As for the cap, what kind should I have used instead? I thought this was a very common type, and I thought mesh was essential regardless.

 

[bholler]

Thank you for the info.

In regard to the flange, is that even something that can be fixed/changed now without tearing everything up excessively?

As for the cap, what kind should I have used instead? I thought this was a very common type, and I thought mesh was essential regardless.

Well it really should be formed in when the cap is made but it could be added just not as well

As for the cap we will only install a cap with a wind guard when it is absolutely necessary they have just caused to may problems for us in the past and they honestly are very rarely needed. And no the screen is not essential either. But some areas have issues with birds in those cases we will use screens but we avoid them as well when possible. But if you are burning correctly with good wood a screen wont be an issue in most cases. Is the liner insulated?

 

[HughMungus]

What we would have done is to take off the top courses of brick that step back in but you could also make the top plate bigger and the sides extend down further to cover that top section. I dont think that looks very good though.



$80 is way less than we charge for one installed they must be using some pretty cheap ones. That one you linked to will work but it is pretty flimsy.

I'm having trouble picturing what you mean with the bricks. Are you saying you would just chip off the protruding parts of the bricks that stick out so that the whole chimney is flat on the sides? You talk about adjusting the bricks that "step back in," but I'm not sure what that means. The ones that stick out all protrude the same amount, so I don't seer any "stepping back in."

I'm urgently trying to understand this because it rained this weekend and I could see rain dripping directly onto that route of bricks that sticks out.


$80 was the cap itself, no installation included. What specifically is wrong with the one I linked? I mean, what am I giving up? Do you have an example of a better one?

 

[bholler]

I'm having trouble picturing what you mean with the bricks. Are you saying you would just chip off the protruding parts of the bricks that stick out so that the whole chimney is flat on the sides? You talk about adjusting the bricks that "step back in," but I'm not sure what that means. The ones that stick out all protrude the same amount, so I don't seer any "stepping back in."

Well your pics are no longer visible but from what I remember you have 2 or 3 courses that step out then on top of that you have a few courses that step back in most of which is not visible due to the overhanging cap. What we would typically do is take those courses that step back in off. From there we would typically pour a concrete crown overhanging but a chase cover would work as well.

$80 was the cap itself, no installation included. What specifically is wrong with the one I linked? I mean, what am I giving up? Do you have an example of a better one?

http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Chimn...Gelco-Single-Flue-Stainless-Steel-Chimney-Cap

This is similar to the type we use they are made from much heavier metal and they clamp down much better

 

[alamance]

I can not see your attachments

 

[HughMungus]

Well your pics are no longer visible but from what I remember you have 2 or 3 courses that step out then on top of that you have a few courses that step back in most of which is not visible due to the overhanging cap. What we would typically do is take those courses that step back in off. From there we would typically pour a concrete crown overhanging but a chase cover would work as well.


http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Chimn...Gelco-Single-Flue-Stainless-Steel-Chimney-Cap

This is similar to the type we use they are made from much heavier metal and they clamp down much better

I don't know what happened to the pics. I added two pics back up. They show the sides of the chimney before the cover was added and after.

The bricks are all even except for two rows that stick out. Those two stick out the same amount as each other.

That's why I'm having trouble visualizing what you're talking about. I don't see anything that I would describe as "stepping in," as it's all flat except for two rows, and those two rows are equally protruding.

Given these pics, what would you have done? I thought the solution would be to have them make a new cap that has a more pronounced rain drip curve at the bottom so the water runs off further from the side and doesn't go directly onto the ridge of protruding bricks. Are you saying that instead you would have just chipped those bricks off?

All the shops I talked to said that you don't want the cover to go all the way down to the ones that stick out because that makes it so the ones under the cover can never dry out and because it's ugly. There may have been other reasons, but that's what I remember.

I know that there's no way to completely prevent rain from hitting the side of the chimney, of course. However, I sat and watched all the rain from the chase cover drip down and land on top of that ridge of bricks that sticks out, so obviously that's a problem. How do I fix this?