Is this normal fines for Okies? : Updated 1/19/2010

[gbreda]

Newbie question time:

Not sure if this is normal or not, but this is what I am getting on all bags of Okies from BJ's in Portsmouth NH.

These were bought about a month ago. The bags at the store today had similar amounts. They did now have Okies in white bag versions. Is there a difference between the 2 bag types? I was not at the store myself today, so I dont know if the labeling was exactly the same or not.

I dont know if I'm just use to the solid white bag of the Greene Teams in the sense of not being able to see the product, but if dumped into the hopper, the Okies are "dirty" and so is my hand if I sift through them at all. Not so with the Greene Teams. Much cleaner. Maybe a hardwood (GT) vs softwood (Okie)?

edit: kind of hard to get a good picture as the fines move as soon as the bag is picked up.

 

[nailed_nailer]

I can't speak for all bags of Okies.

But, the pallet of them that I bought at BJ's in Taunton, Ma had no fines. Every bag was in great shape.

I had them (BJ's) load the factory wrapped pallet directly into my truck and they were never disturbed from the pallet packing until I got home and had to hand unload them into my Basement.

I know it is not possible but I swear they were even still warm in the center of the pallet (ok it just seemed that way )

I would guess the Okies you got from Portsmouth were over handled by the store. Perhaps moved around a few times in shipping or storage in the store.

As a rule, I am of the camp that doesn't worry about fines. My EF-2 burns almost everything I put into the hopper. I don't "clean" the pellets first. I just open a bag and dump it in.

---Nailer---

 

[joefraser]

The bags I got at BJ's look about the same. Although in the hopper they seemed very clean compared to what I have burned. I didn't notice much dust when pouring. I'm kind of wandering if it's an just the clear bags. I've checked out a few brands with the clar bag and they all look like that.

Anyone out there buy clear bags somewhere other than BJ's (maybe last year)?

 

[summit]

The clear bags are from an older batch (actually the moisture content and ash content were mislabeled), so its concievable that they have suffered some degradation... that being said, the clear bag makes it look far worse than it actually is...

 

[gbreda]

AS far as how they burn, I have not burned them in my stove yet. Saving these for the real winter cold.

I did bring a few to someone last night that was out due to a day late delivery. That was where I was able to see how they were in the hopper. I am sure that they will burn just fine in my P68. I was curious if this was a handling issue at the big box store. Maybe next time, I will buy right from the pellet distributors.

 

[Glosta]

No excess fines from the pallet of Okanagan Pellets (clear bags) I purchased from BJ's in Haverhill, MA

I also received six WHITE bags of Okanagan pellets free from my stove dealer when I purchased my stove in September.

Absolutely no difference in the amount of fines when comparing the white bags to the clear bags.

Maybe it's my imagination, but the only difference I noticed between the white bags and the clear bags is the gauge of the plastic used in the bag itself. I find the plastic on the white bags to be slightly heavier vs. the clear bags. The white bags seem to resist punctures and tears a little better than the clear bags. Again, it could just be my imagination.

White bag or clear bag makes no difference.....these pellets burn amazingly well!

 

[summit]

I want to clarify: all the okies we see coming thru now are in white bags.. the clear ones i have seen mostly have the ash content rated at a higher # than the moisture content which is back wards (which was mislabeled/misprinted, shoulda been the other way round)... there is no difference in the pellet however, they all work great.

 

[gbreda]

No excess fines from the pallet of Okanagan Pellets (clear bags) I purchased from BJ's in Haverhill, MA

I also received six WHITE bags of Okanagan pellets free from my stove dealer when I purchased my stove in September.

Absolutely no difference in the amount of fines when comparing the white bags to the clear bags.

Maybe it's my imagination, but the only difference I noticed between the white bags and the clear bags is the gauge of the plastic used in the bag itself. I find the plastic on the white bags to be slightly heavier vs. the clear bags. The white bags seem to resist punctures and tears a little better than the clear bags. Again, it could just be my imagination.

White bag or clear bag makes no difference.....these pellets burn amazingly well!

Now those look like clean pellets. Night and day difference from the 65 bags that I have. Guess Portsmouth BJ's has a different lot, or different handling as Haverhill.

I know that's it's fuel and meant to be burned, but so is cheaper, no name/lower grade gasoline. It will make your car go but you might pay more for maintenance or repairs later due to deposits in the engine, you might not. I know from being on the site for a while now (even before joining) that so much is talked about with fines. Maybe too much is put into the sawdust talk here, I dont know. What I will now learn first hand is how my stove accomodates them. Hopefully without any issues at all and they just go up in smoke .

BTU, this is not a negative towards the product as much as it is letting Okanagan know that a retailer has alot of product that is sub par from what they would like to see. Whatever the reason. Your retailers are your final advertisement. The bags in Portsmouth have been like this since the day they had them for sale. If I had seen the difference in bags from Haverhill to Portsmouth, I would not have touched the ones I bought. Who would when there are plenty of options out there right now?

Bottom line is that they produce great heat, hopefully without any side effects.

 

[Glosta]

Gbreda - When you picked up the pellets from Portsmouth was the pallet still wrapped with the white Okanagan "overwrap"?

The pallet I purchased still had the overwrap, so I know for sure the pellets were not over handled at store level.

Do you think it's possible that people return excess pellets for a refund at the end of the year and BJ's just throws them back into circulation??? Maybe that would explain the handling theory???

 

[joefraser]

Gbreda - When you picked up the pellets from Portsmouth was the pallet still wrapped with the white Okanagan "overwrap"?

The pallet I purchased still had the overwrap, so I know for sure the pellets were not over handled at store level.

Do you think it's possible that people return excess pellets for a refund at the end of the year and BJ's just throws them back into circulation??? Maybe that would explain the handling theory???

The pallet I purchased had a clear wrap. Not sure if it had a Okanagan label on it or not. That means it was rewrapped?

 

[nailed_nailer]

Joe,

The pallet of Okies I bought at BJ's in Taunton had a white heavy mil plastic shrinkwrap pallet cover over it with a green Okanagan Pine Tree on it.

I think it would be safe to say that if your pallet was clear wrapped (stretch wrap?) it was probable re-stacked.

Which means the bags probably suffered some handling damage.

---Nailer---

 

[hotpellet]

You will always find degradation on any kind of product that is shipped from a great distance, especially wood pellets. Just another reason to buy pellets that are produced within a reasonable distance.

 

[Glosta]

Ah.. now we're getting somewhere. My pallet from BJ's Haverhill had the heavy gauge white plastic overwrap with the Okanagan symbol. I guess that explains why we're not experiencing the excess fines.

As Nailer pointed out, the pallets with the clear wrap were probably restacked at one time or another. Part of the reason retailers restack pallets is so they can double stack (or in some cases, triple stack) invenotry to free up storage space.

BTU can answer this question, but I'm guessing wood pellets don't hold up very well when double stacked in the warehouse. That's probably what caused the excess fines???

 

[Glosta]

[quote author="BTU" date="1259953655[/quote] No, I don't think how high you stack the pellets will cause excess fines... [/quote]

BTU - I'm not talking about the height of the pallets. I guess what I'm asking is could the weight of a double stacked pallet of wood pellets cause some of the pellets on the bottom pallet to be crushed over time (2 months, 3 months, etc) creating excess fines in the bags?

Pallet Ti x Hi's (units per layer x layers per pallet) are typically configured to maximize transportation load out (ie. how many pallets can you get on a truck/boxcar before it weights-out or cubes-out).

I imagine Okanagan pellets are stacked 65 bags per pallet so you can maximize your transportation efficiencies. If BJ's breaks down the pallet to 50 bags (for storage space reasons) and double stacks the pallets, they are in effect adding roughly 2,050 lbs (50 bags x 40lbs + 50lbs for wooden pallet) to the wood pellets on the bottom pallet. Obviously, if the pallets get triple stacked in the yard, your talking about 4,100 lbs on top of the bottom pellets. That type of excess weight has to adversely affect pellet integrity over a period of time.

I can tell you for a FACT, that BJ's in Haverhill had to use the fork lift to remove a half pallet of Coca Cola 12 packs from the top of my pallet of Okanagan pellets. Again, the integrity of my pellets was fine, but others may not be so lucky.

 

[gbreda]

Although I purchased 65 bags, it was in 3 trips. The pallets were already un-wrapped but they appeared like they had not been re-stacked.
I stayed away from the ones that were clearly re-stacked.
I have noticed that the bags on a fresh pallet looks much flatter than a re-stacked. Makes sense too.

I do know that runs can vary. My 4 pallets of Greene Teams show that.
They are from 3 different run dates where one pallet has poor size control resulting in many 1.5" plus pellets and some 2-3" ones.
The other pallets have much better lengths all under 1".
Each pallet runs exactly the same throughout as I have spot checked each.

Chaulk this one up to the unknown for now. This is more informative for me than anything else.

Bottom line is that the Greene Teams run fine thru the P68 and I am very optimistic that the Okies will too.
Hopefully hotter and less ash.

:cheese:

 

[BDPVT]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't get the obsession some have with fines. There are fines in every bag of pellets I have ever opened and vary from bag to bag. I dump the bag into my stove, fines and all, and burn away. Never had a problem. As long as the fuel burns hot with low ash I am happy. I know some spend a lot of time sifting every bag. Apparently others have problems with jams and need to sift every bag. But if you can dump them right in your stove and they burn good who cares how many fines are in the bag. Likewise if you are sifting every bag anyway, what difference does it make if it's 1 cup or 2 cups per bag. Burn them clean or dusty, whatever works for you, but the end result will probably be the same.

 

[gbreda]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't get the obsession some with with fines. There are fines in every bag of pellets I have ever opened and vary from bag to bag. I dump the bag into my stove, fines and all, and burn away. Never had a problem. As long as the fuel burns hot with low ash I am happy. I know some spend a lot of time sifting every bag. Apparently others have problems with jams and need to sift every bag. But if you can dump them right in your stove and they burn good who cares how many fines are in the bag. Likewise if you are shifting every bag anyway, what difference does it make if it's 1 cup or 2 cups per bag. Burn them clean or dusty, whatever works for you, but the end result will probably be the same.

Not taken in the wrong way at all.

Actually, this is the approach that will be taking with these as well.
From what I have heard, the Harmons will feed anything.

This all began asking if it were normal or not.
Not normal, but OK anyway is what I have gathered.
Question answered.

 

[tinkabranc]

As the others have mentioned, it just looks like you got hold of some bags
that were handled a bit too much.

Only difference I can tell between the clear bags and the white bags is you
cannot see the fines until you open the bag. ;-)

Burn em if you got em

 

[jtakeman]

I picked up 2 clear bags and Mine had little to no fines.

 

[gbreda]

BTU, ever on the ball, has sent me a private message indicating that BJ's is selling a bad batch of okies made in Feb. of last year in clear bags w/green lettering on a white background. But they still burn far superior to other pellets I've tried. Newre batches should be in bags that are all white.

Finally, someone owned up to this being a known bad batch sold (or unloaded on) to BJ's !

 

[smalltown]

I also purchased some Okies from BJ's a short time ago. On the stack in the store they had both white bags and the clear. I wasn't sure what the difference was at the time, but opted for the clear. Yes there were some extra fines in the bag, but they burnt very well. I would burn them again. Since I only had about 10 bags I saved my Okies for those cold winter nights when the temp really dropped and they did not disappoint!

Did I mention I love my Castile? :coolsmile:

 

[gbreda]

BTU, ever on the ball, has sent me a private message indicating that BJ's is selling a bad batch of okies made in Feb. of last year in clear bags w/green lettering on a white background. But they still burn far superior to other pellets I've tried. Newre batches should be in bags that are all white.

Finally, someone owned up to this being a known bad batch sold (or unloaded on) to BJ's !

Wait a minute ...what I said was that what granfanda got was probably some product made in Feb/March of 2009 that seems to have more fines than normal in it. A bad batch would indicate that they don't burn properly or there is some radical problem and that is NOT the case.. BJ's was not sold or "unloaded" on them or anyone else for that matter inferior product...this is how rumors get started and its simply not true. If we EVER have a problem with our pellets, we will replace them or give the dealer a refund..we back our product 110% which is what I hope ALL pellet manufactures will do if there is any problem with their product... You don't like it..take it back and as long as you are dealing with a reputable dealer..it's shouldn't be an issue... That said, I don't want something blown out of proportion to what the issue was...which was earlier in 2009 there was some product that seemed to have more fines than normal...haven't had many mention it, so I don't think it has been excessive.......

Hey BTU,

The DO burn very hot, the best I have burned for heat so far. But being a first year burner and lucky enough to have found this forum I am aware that this is not the norm for Okies. But had I not seen this forum, I would most likely have thought it was normal and moved on from the brand. Every company can have a "less than" batch...and they sometimes end up at a place like BJ's. Cant argue that.

It has been said to test a few bags of the batch before buying a large amount. I am learning that goes true for all brands, including the Super Premiums. Knowing a little more than I did 3 months ago, If I came accross these and I really wanted to seek out Okies, I would have passed on this batch and looked elsewhere.

As far as returning them, they have been re-stacked in the basement. They DO BURN HOTTER THAN HELL and keep the house really warm. That is a good thing. Need to take a little more care of the fines and the stove cleanings. That I can live with too.

 

[gbreda]

Copied from my post/response in another thread.......

Not a "normal" occurance, but these things burn great!!

This past summer the mill purchased a new dryer and it got installed early fall. Now since the mill only gets its fiber from a local sawmill (planner shavings), the wood is kiln dried to start with, so the fiber is extremely clean and fluffy when received. The mill has been doing some more "tweaking" to find that perfect fit. With the extra drying that they have been able to do, the moisture content has been getting down to numbers of 3-3.5% which is extremely dry, thus the even higher burning temps...That's a good thing. But because of this it may cause pellet to be dustier than what we would really like to see sometimes...so the tweaking is an ongoing process... Since the vast majority of our clients tell us they buy the pellet mainly for the heat that is what we are trying to squeeze every last bit out of the pellet. We are fortunate to start with really good fiber, no bark and a product that leaves little ash. Hopefully what we are trying to do is make an even better product, but just like anything ...it may take some time to figure out the perfect recipe...Thanks again for all your support.......

Hey BTU

Tweeking a product to find that sweet spot. Makes sense. The heat that these pellets put out is very hot. In fact, Hoter Than Hell from what I have found ;-) . The house has been much warmer than my last brand. Fluffy ash; very clean burn; no, or very little, carbon in the burn pot. No clinkers at all.

These days, money is hard earned and I need the best bang for my buck. I dont have so much time at home these days and I am willing to pay a little more for a product that can give me better results with less care of the stove. That is one of the reasons I bought a Harman. I would love a stove that cost me less up front and that I could "tinker" with on the settings, that is the mechanic side of me. But these days as an Operations Manager, not so much time at home to tend to something like that.

Will I try other brands? Of course, as an informed consumer I would be crazy not to. That incudes Dragons and the newer batches of Okies from Home and Hearth in Hampton, NH as well as Spruce Points.

If this is any indicator, these Okies have me sold on softwood.

BUT, this has been my first round with the Okies and has become my "benchmark" for other brands to compare to.


Thanks for the update. It's much appreciated

Geno