Is this normal for a EPA insert

[Burd]

I have the napoleon 1402 insert and the other night I loaded it up for a over night burn. Now before I did this the temp on the stove was reading around 350 and the house was cruzing around 74 I put 6" oak splits in about two and load the rest with what I could to make it tight. Now my control was shut down all the way and with in a half hour the box was acting like I had the controls open. The temps got up to 675 (the house was hot 82 ) and I had no control at all of the temps.
Is this normal for this to happen with a epa stove or insert?
And why does this happen? Is there any thing I can do to keep this from happing agian?
Thank Burd

 

[kd460]

I would be looking for an air leak of some sorts. First thing to check is the condition of your gaskets. Not sure of the mechanism to control the air in a Napoleon, but I would check that ass well. KD

 

[Burd]

Thanks kd But my insert was bought last feb I hope I dont need a gasket yet as for the controls I would have to flip the insert to get to them

 

[BrotherBart]

The first thing is that with an EPA stove you are not able to completely cut off primary combustion air. If the builders allowed that their stoves would never pass EPA emissions certification. So there is a fixed amount of primary that will always be coming in. Second the secondary air is not controllable at all. It is a fixed volume.

When you load a big load of fresh wood on top of hot coals the temp is going to spike. Every time if it is good dry wood. The first stage of burning is the release of volatile gases from the wood caused by those hot coals under it. When a piece of wood gets up to around 225 degrees or so it starts outgassing. And those gases are just born to burn. They will burn violently until the next stage of the burn where the wood fibers are being turned into burnable gases. After that is the coaling stage where everything just sits in your stove and keeps it warm until they die out.

For a while after a reload I never damp primary air down. It in fact provides a little cooling action in the firebox. As the fire builds and the wood starts to char I ease the primary air down in three or four steps until the stove stabilizes between five and six hundred degrees with the secondary burn rolling up top by the baffle. And even then it usually isn't shut down below 25%.

 

[bluefrier]

IMO that's normal. My englander 13 will do the same thing after a good coal bed is established. Try moving
the coals to one side of the stove or to the front so all your wood won't ignite at once.

 

[n6crv]

Hello Burd, I had about the same thing happen last year (my first year with EPA stove). There was no way of shutting it down. I turned the blower on high and it did cool down the stove top. I use an OAK so this year I'm adding a damper to the air intake. I'm not going to use it to control the fire just as a way to shut it down if needed. It has been cool a few nights and without the OAK hooked up yet I have tried just putting my hand over where the air inlet is. It really knocked the fire down fast. It would be nice if we were given alittle more control but that's the government for us, we can't even control a stove.
Don

 

[BrotherBart]

One more thing I forgot to mention. Until you get used to operating the stove, and probably even after that, wait until the stove top temp is down to 300 or so before loading it up. This gives a little working room when the outgassing burn takes off and lets it get it out of its system without going into over-fire territory.

Stack a big fresh load into a 500 degree firebox on hot coals and all hell is going to break loose.

 

[RedRanger]

Trial and error. Lots of possible errors, as I have discovered with my new epa insert. Try hot and fast, turn down to 3/4, then to 1/2- then to 1/4. Maybe 10 minute intervals inbetween. depends on your splits, dry, small , large, etc.

 

[Burd]

Brother Bart I owe you a beer.That was such good info Ill have to print that one out. Man you save me from pulling the insert. I was going to make new plates for the primer air. Man you save me agian I owe you a frost mug for that beer

 

[HittinSteel]

BrotherBart, thanks for the post about letting it go back down to 300 or so before reloading. I put in 3 nice size splits when the stove was already ripping in the 500 degree range yesterday. This resulted in some nervous times while the stove heated to 650 or so (damper all the way closed). This really had me wondering how in the world I could ever "fill the stove to the top of the door" and not expect it to overfire.

 

[Highbeam]

Great post BB. The whole thread really drives home the importance of timing your loads so that you can safely stuff the thing full before bed. You wouldn't want to have a half fizzled load of wood in the 600 degree box and then stuff it to the roof just before retiring.

 

[Adios Pantalones]

I operate a non cat insert. When adding to a hot stove- it's either a couple of splits on top of coals (at home tending the fire), or wait for the coal bed to die down before stuffing it. I drag coals to the front normally as well, so there isn't a heavy coal bed under the wood when I load up. Softwood goes up quickly, I shut the primary air right down, and the secondaries kick in within a few minutes.

Because it goes up quickly- I have been loading EW with great effect. This is the first year I've burned pine, so I was worried about over firing.

 

[SlyFerret]

I did the same thing last season. I loaded the stove a little later in the evening than usual. Bedtime came around and the stove hadn't cooled down yet, and I had a bed of coals that were still producing quite a bit of heat. I loaded the stove up and went to bed. About a half hour later, the smoke alarm was going off from the curing paint fumes as my stove reached a new record high temp of about 750 degrees.

I closed the air all the way, and the flame down low about went out, but the secondaries kept burning for a while longer. The temp came back down, I opened up the air a little bit, and went back to bed.

I will be more patient before I reload a stove that has that much of the burn cycle left.

-SF

 

[woodheat]

I agree with brotherbart. I let the stove cool to below 300, open the air all the way or 3/4 open, rake the coals forward then reload. Once the temp get up to 400-450 I shut it all the way down and the secondaries start going right away. The hotter I let it get before shutting down, the hotter it will run after shut down. Sometime if it get a little to cool I will put a couple kindling pieces under the piece of wood on the coal to get it fired up faster and reduce smoke times.

Make sure you keep a good eye on the fire after reload and before you shut the air down or you will find yourself in the same overheating predicament.