Jotul 450 airwash problems

[Stihl Burning]

Hi there folks, I've been reading on this site on and off for a few years now, and have found it very useful and informative. I had a used Elmira 1600 insert for about 5 years and although it was hungry, it sure could heat my bungalow from the basement up, about 1150 sq feet each floor. Unfortunately the Elmira served it's time and has warped from all its uses and age. I bought a Jotul 450 Tamarak and from most reports here, it sounds like a respectable insert. Well I got it installed and it falls shy on my expectations so far. (gives about a 1/4 of the heat of the Emira). I had the glass get very dirty fast so I decided to investigate. I removed the piece inside the box, just below the doors, (the manual refers to it as an inspection cover) kind of bubble shaped withe two holes for combustion air and two screws holding it in. What I found was the top edge of the hole (below this cover)was cut so large that the gasket couldn't possibly seal the top side. This explains why the only clean glass was a 6 inch radius in the bottom middle of the glass. Being a Millwright, I had some semi suitable gasket material that I had to double up on the edge in question. I wish I took pictures to better explain all this. My stove is an 2004 model and hopefully this is NOT a widespread problem. If you suspect your stove to be weak in the "airwash function" you may want to check how tight the seal is by pressing the edge of a business card into the top edge of that inspection cover. If you remove the cover the gasket will fall apart. The stove seems to perform better now but still somewhat weak. I'll take pictures if I get it apart again. Hope this helps someone else. Mike.

 

[oconnor]

I haven't looked in the space myself, but I assume you are refering to the "air slider" - in the exploded parts diagram. Be aware that the stove is set up to not allow you to totally cut off the primary air supply, that may be the intent of the "gap" you refer to. Keeping the glass clean has less to do with airwash and more to do with a hot burn.

Before you look at the stove as the issue, I found that my stove was giving me dirty glass unless I got it hot - do you have a thermometer, and if so, how hot are you getting the stove? Mine runs up to 750F on the top. If you don't get it hot, you won't have much draft, especially if your flue is not ideal (mine is on a 5 inch liner - definately not ideal)

I also found that the Kennebec was happier with smaller spilts than what I was used to - and that helped as well.

My wood is not as well seasoned as it should be, but I am able to keep the glass clean and get lots of heat just by doing these things above.

 

[Stihl Burning]

The piece I am refering to covers the "air slider". The combustion air enters from the 3" hole in the back and feeds to the upper secondary burn grid in the top, as well as the "bubble cover" I refered to, from there it goes to two channels in either corner to the glass air wash in the top. Air pressure is like electricity, it takes the shortest route. In this case leaking out of this cover rather than going up to the air wash slots in the top. I have well dried wood and know all about burning it hot. So far the glass is very clean. Like I said, I regret not posting pictures. Mike.

 

[jkupcha]

OConner
Do you find that when you run the insert hot it actually cleans the soot off the glass that had accumulated from prior fires, or do you mean when you run it above 750 that soot just doesn't accumulate? Thanks

 

[oconnor]

Banger - If I run hot at first, then the soot doesn't accumulate. I also clean it every day with a rag that sits near the stove (but not to near of course ) and some water from the steamer, and some ash from inside, so there isn't anything there to encourage buildup.

Stihl - I assume you mean it takes the path of least resistance. Also, you are dealing with suction caused by flue draft vs positive pressure - but that is somewhat semantic. Not trying to be picky, just like the right words for those without experience who look at these posts later.

I'll take a look at mine to see what it looks like as well.

Edit - took a look and the gasket is visible all the way around the inspection cover, no gaps.

 

[ncmallard78]

creosete on the glass is a symptom of poor wood quality. I never clean the glass on my oslo... a hot fire takes care of that. I would question your wood's seasoning. by the way, if your fire was getting too much air, you would know it. a good secondary combustion gives an amber colored flame, while a fire with too much oxygen gives a yellowish white flame. just my .02

 

[jkupcha]

creosete on the glass is a symptom of poor wood quality. I never clean the glass on my oslo... a hot fire takes care of that. I would question your wood's seasoning. by the way, if your fire was getting too much air, you would know it. a good secondary combustion gives an amber colored flame, while a fire with too much oxygen gives a yellowish white flame. just my .02

Really! My wood is 3 year old oak dried then stored in my woodshed. How big is that firebox on the oslo? Probably not as big as the Napoleon nz6000. It's not always the wood (although that is usually the first place to look).

 

[Stihl Burning]

My old Emira 1600 was capable of burning the glass clean. Maybe I should have that beast Rebuilt, LOL. This Jotul seems pretty wimpy. The wife really likes the looks of it though, maybe I should relocate it to the living room where it can "look good", and not be called upon to actually heat. Right now it is "slightly better" than the open fireplace, I heard Regencys are good. I really wish I was doing something wrong, but I doubt it.

 

[ncmallard78]

dont know what to tell yall. yotul's pretty much considered the gold standard... the good news is that you can probably sell it for what you have in it...

 

[Stihl Burning]

I thought the same (gold standard). Yet the "wood stove" store that I went to recently (est 1948) a bunch of older guys, kind of insisted that all the stoves are about the same performance wise. They sell Jotul and didn't really put it above any other brand. When I really pushed for what stove was best, they said Regency. I would say my main problem seems to be weak draft. The liner is clean, about 22 feet,(also had to use the ventinox adjustable offset adapter) installed in the basement. So far it has only been about 8-10 celcius, so maybe the cooler weather will help with the draft. Maybe the combustion air to outside would help, but would not hook up easy in my case. Thank You all for your input, Mike.

 

[oconnor]

I would look into draft as your issue. Poor wood quality is certainly not the only cause of creosote - poor burn is the cause of all creosote.
Poor burn could be wet wood, no chimney draft, poor technique adjusting the draft controls, stove design etc etc.

I get lots of heat from my Kennebec, and haven't heard others complain about heat. There are many comments though on glass, most saying that they had to learn how to burn the new stove differently than the old one to keep the glass cleaner. Don't give up yet.

 

[ba_jie]

Hi,
Stihl Burning, I am facing the same problem that you did. My Jotul 450 will have to use a offset box to connect to the liner. I am having trouble to decide which offset box i need to buy. I am opt for the ventinox adjustable offset adapter. But the website says this adapter requires Insert Boot Adaptor to function.
I am not sure what's that about. Does it mean its bottom inlet will not fit the stove outlet?

Did you have to buy an insert boot adaptor? you said that you have weak draft problem. Could it be caused by using the offset box?


http://www.buy.com/prod/copperfield...teel-offset-insert/q/loc/63024/208092261.html

I thought the same (gold standard). Yet the "wood stove" store that I went to recently (est 1948) a bunch of older guys, kind of insisted that all the stoves are about the same performance wise. They sell Jotul and didn't really put it above any other brand. When I really pushed for what stove was best, they said Regency. I would say my main problem seems to be weak draft. The liner is clean, about 22 feet,(also had to use the ventinox adjustable offset adapter) installed in the basement. So far it has only been about 8-10 celcius, so maybe the cooler weather will help with the draft. Maybe the combustion air to outside would help, but would not hook up easy in my case. Thank You all for your input, Mike.