Jotul F118CB stove experiences

[Flyboyslc]

Hello to the group.

I posted on another thread regarding this stove, but thought my views were perhaps worth a thread of it’s own. I bought a used stove that had been badly mistreated. Looked like it had been stored outside and rained on a bunch. So it had substantial corrosion in places. Also the top baffle was the one piece and had warped, cracked, and split apart. So I felt my way through dis-assembly, clean up, baffle replacement, painting, and return to service. It now works well and it is amazing the heat it puts out for such a small firebox. Anyone that would need some coaching on working on this stove is welcome to contact me and I will help if i can. Here is a video of some of my work.

 

[Todd]

Nice work! I recently installed its smaller brother the 602 CB and so far its working out great.

 

[Woody Stover]

Nice work! I recently installed its smaller brother the 602 CB and so far its working out great.

Keystone gone? What prompted the switch?

 

[RockCastile]

Good to hear more about this stove, seems it's a bit of a rare bird. When I first got into wood burning a few years ago, and before I did my homework to discover it would probably overheat my very small space, I seriously considered the 118 Black Bear, basically fell in love with its looks. But the other deal breaker for me was cost: my Jotul dealer listed it for about $2000. I ultimately went with the 602 for $1000; it's worked great for me and I love its looks too. Now, in hindsight, to my non-stove-expert eye the Black Bear looks an awful lot like a 602 with an attractive cast iron shoebox on top of it. Cool, but how does that shoebox justify doubling the dealer price?

 

[Todd]

Good to hear more about this stove, seems it's a bit of a rare bird. When I first got into wood burning a few years ago, and before I did my homework to discover it would probably overheat my very small space, I seriously considered the 118 Black Bear, basically fell in love with its looks. But the other deal breaker for me was cost: my Jotul dealer listed it for about $2000. I ultimately went with the 602 for $1000; it's worked great for me and I love its looks too. Now, in hindsight, to my non-stove-expert eye the Black Bear looks an awful lot like a 602 with an attractive cast iron shoebox on top of it. Cool, but how does that shoebox justify doubling the dealer price?

Same here, I was considering the 118 as but it was double the cost and I was a little leary on what ive read here about the stove. The dealer didnt have a 118 on the floor to look at but had the 602 for under a grand so I went with it. So far its working out fine for my 600sq ft cabin. No problem with 9hr burns if i need them but usually just burn 2-3 splits for a medium low type 2-4 hour burn.

 

[Todd]

Keystone gone? What prompted the switch?

Time for change. Sold house, moved off grid into small log cabin. I told Woodstock to build be a nice box style soapstone stove but they went with those ugly steel stoves instead!

 

[RockCastile]

Have yet to experience these 8+hr burns of which you (and other 602 owners on here) speak. I might have once got lucky and had faint coals on a hunk of black locust after almost 6 hrs, but that was an anomaly.
Anyhoo, not tryna steal this thread...118 Black Bear owners, where u at? How does the newer 2-piece baffle hold up, etc?

 

[Woody Stover]

I felt my way through dis-assembly, clean up, baffle replacement, painting, and return to service. It now works well and it is amazing the heat it puts out for such a small firebox.

Nice, you saved the old girl, and got a great heater in the bargain!
I don't see it on the Jotul site now, so I guess it's out of production.
Good job, and good on ya for making the helpful video for those wanting to do the same.

Now, in hindsight, to my non-stove-expert eye the Black Bear looks an awful lot like a 602 with an attractive cast iron shoebox on top of it. Cool, but how does that shoebox justify doubling the dealer price?

I think that's similar to what the Morso Squirrel does, which @SpaceBus has. The benefits I imagine would be that the top box will extract more heat into the room, and it allows for rear or side venting. This model doesn't look identical, I don't think it's an FB, but maybe the top is the same?

That said, the golf tee shape of the 602 is pretty kewl..

 

[SpaceBus]

Nice, you saved the old girl, and got a great heater in the bargain!
I don't see it on the Jotul site now, so I guess it's out of production.
Good job, and good on ya for making the helpful video for those wanting to do the same.
I think that's similar to what the Morso Squirrel does, which @SpaceBus has. The benefits I imagine would be that the top box will extract more heat into the room, and it allows for rear or side venting. This model doesn't look identical, I don't think it's an FB, but maybe the top is the same?
View attachment 255777
That said, the golf tee shape of the 602 is pretty kewl..

Yep, it's a large heat exchanger, much like the 2b Classic. I actually looked at the 2b classic and the 118cb very closely and at times I wish there was a 118 sitting in my living room. Ultimately I am glad I went with the Morso. The super long splits the 118 takes would be annoying since my cooker can only take a 16" stick. The 2b takes a 18" stick max so not a big deal if I load a 16" stick which would be a waste in the 118 at which point I might as well have a 602 or 2b classic/standard. The 118 probably has the edge on burn time when loaded with a 24" split, which is also usually the max stroke on a hydraulic splitter. I really like the 118 and would recommend the updated version to anyone. It's a shame there isn't a 2020 version.

 

[Todd]

Have yet to experience these 8+hr burns of which you (and other 602 owners on here) speak. I might have once got lucky and had faint coals on a hunk of black locust after almost 6 hrs, but that was an anomaly.
Anyhoo, not tryna steal this thread...118 Black Bear owners, where u at? How does the newer 2-piece baffle hold up, etc?

Maybe we need to start a 602 owners thread?

 

[SpaceBus]

Maybe we need to start a 602 owners thread?

What about small European box stove thread.

 

[Kevin Weis]

I had a small Waterford box stove, actually two of them a model 101 which almost looks identical to the Jotul 602 and a small Waterford Leprachan (spelled right?) stove. The Waterfords are/were made in Ireland. The quality control from the factory was horrible! The stove shipped to me had several warped pieces that came from the factory that way. Finally had to settle for the floor model from the dealer because there was a problem getting parts. Waterford not imported anymore due to EPA regs I'm told. A VC dealer I know said he took a tour of the factory in Ireland when he was a Waterford dealer and was appalled at the quality control and also the safety at the facility. He was told by a manager there that the employees didn't care about the safety issues if they got hurt was a reason to go the pub in the afternoon after seeing the doctor. Go figure. Anyways the Leprachan had a two piece cat iron baffle with hole in the underside that provided secondary combustion. Seems very similar to the Jotul 602 described above. Wonder if the European stove makers shared some design concepts or maybe they just stole them? Anyway Waterford used to make a kickass looking wood cook stove. I will say this the cast iron material in the Waterford stoves I think is/was second to none. My daughter spilled some cold water on the top while it was runing and the cast iron did not crack. The enamel did not fair so well as was expected when this happened. Just food for thought.

 

[Todd]

Can anyone tell me what the size of the firebox is in the F118? I know it takes longer splits that the 602, I've read 24". Looks like the door is the same size?

 

[begreen]

Roughly 1.4 cu ft.

 

[Todd]

Thanks Begreen. So its basically a longer 602 firebox, or does it have a little more height than the 602?

 

[begreen]

Pretty much. I don't have one to measure, but guestimated 10" height in the firebox.

 

[Flyboyslc]

Pretty much. I don't have one to measure, but guestimated 10" height in the firebox.

That is about right. I do think the 602 door is the same door as the 118cb. I have to be careful loading the 118. You need to not jam in wood along the sides that will put pressure on the secondary air tubes that are high up in the corner just below the top baffle. My experience with Jotul revolved around a Jotul 121 which is a monster. They were made for just a year or two about 1978. I used the 121 to heat my entire 2500 sq ft home for 25 years. You could put over twice the wood load into the 121 compared to the 118. If you ever get a chance to buy one jump on it. Here is a picture. I moved it to my shop when i put geothermal heat in the house. Just use the 118 in the basement to supplement the heat a little (really a lot!)


That is an 8 inch red elm log loaded onto a hot bead of coals. Slid in a nice wedge of oak next to it. Could have slid in more yet on top of both of them but just didn’t need that much heat in the 1200 sq foot shop that day.

 

[MR. GLO]

Hello to the group.

I posted on another thread regarding this stove, but thought my views were perhaps worth a thread of it’s own. I bought a used stove that had been badly mistreated. Looked like it had been stored outside and rained on a bunch. So it had substantial corrosion in places. Also the top baffle was the one piece and had warped, cracked, and split apart. So I felt my way through dis-assembly, clean up, baffle replacement, painting, and return to service. It now works well and it is amazing the heat it puts out for such a small firebox. Anyone that would need some coaching on working on this stove is welcome to contact me and I will help if i can. Here is a video of some of my work.

Great video. I have a F118 2009 Model not installed yet. I am missing the adapter part after the smoke outlet and getting ready to buy it.
Do you think this stove would work better rear vented or top vented?
Can you tell us how you have been adjusting the flash fire lever for the secondary air outlet.
Does position 1 (all the way in) actually help with smoke on startup or running with door open?
The manual doesn't say where to put a damper. Can anyone suggest a location.
My model year doesn't have the 2 piece baffle. Thanks for the help.

 

[Flyboyslc]

Great video. I have a F118 2009 Model not installed yet. I am missing the adapter part after the smoke outlet and getting ready to buy it.
Do you think this stove would work better rear vented or top vented?
Can you tell us how you have been adjusting the flash fire lever for the secondary air outlet.
Does position 1 (all the way in) actually help with smoke on startup or running with door open?
The manual doesn't say where to put a damper. Can anyone suggest a location.
My model year doesn't have the 2 piece baffle. Thanks for the help.

i just leave the rear secondary air control in the middle position and regulate the front air trying to operate the stove to maintain a 400 F stovepipe temperature. Air needed changes with outside temperature (draft gets stronger as temperature differential gets bigger) and fuel types. Right now in Iowa we are having a sustained long period of zero degree weather. My 35 foot tall chimney draws really hard so lots of times the front air supply is nearly closed and I still burn at 400 degrees. I’m burning really dry red elm and it burns hot. With shorter chimneys and wetter wood you will for sure need to change air settings. That’s why even after burning and heating with wood for nearly 45 years I still rely on my stack thermometer to know what is happening in the stove.

 

[Flyboyslc]

i just leave the rear secondary air control in the middle position and regulate the front air trying to operate the stove to maintain a 400 F stovepipe temperature. Air needed changes with outside temperature (draft gets stronger as temperature differential gets bigger) and fuel types. Right now in Iowa we are having a sustained long period of zero degree weather. My 35 foot tall chimney draws really hard so lots of times the front air supply is nearly closed and I still burn at 400 degrees. I’m burning really dry red elm and it burns hot. With shorter chimneys and wetter wood you will for sure need to change air settings. That’s why even after burning and heating with wood for nearly 45 years I still rely on my stack thermometer to know what is happening in the stove.

Also, it won’t matter rear vs top vent. I have done both with Jotuls, and no difference. Never used a damper but if you do I would think about 2 feet above the stove would be ok.

 

[MR. GLO]

i just leave the rear secondary air control in the middle position and regulate the front air trying to operate the stove to maintain a 400 F stovepipe temperature. Air needed changes with outside temperature (draft gets stronger as temperature differential gets bigger) and fuel types. Right now in Iowa we are having a sustained long period of zero degree weather. My 35 foot tall chimney draws really hard so lots of times the front air supply is nearly closed and I still burn at 400 degrees. I’m burning really dry red elm and it burns hot. With shorter chimneys and wetter wood you will for sure need to change air settings. That’s why even after burning and heating with wood for nearly 45 years I still rely on my stack thermometer to know what is happening in the stove.

Great info...

As my Jotul Rangeley burns hotter the Magnehelic draft gauge does go up. At one point it reads .14 Usually it stays around .10 .11 when burning.

You wrote,..."My 35 foot tall chimney draws really hard so lots of times the front air supply is nearly closed and I still burn at 400 degrees..." Does this cause white smoke out of chimney? It does when I close my stove more than halfway. I'm burning kiln dry wood and tried it with 12 - 16 % seasoned wood. It usually takes 30 minutes for smoke to come. and watching it on the nest camera. I tried shutting it down at different temps and loads. Seems worst on windy days. So I am thinking a damper might allow more of the secondary burn to happen without the draft and outside conditions pulling the smoke out but not sure . Also waiting on a new cap.

 

[Flyboyslc]

Great info...

As my Jotul Rangeley burns hotter the Magnehelic draft gauge does go up. At one point it reads .14 Usually it stays around .10 .11 when burning.

You wrote,..."My 35 foot tall chimney draws really hard so lots of times the front air supply is nearly closed and I still burn at 400 degrees..." Does this cause white smoke out of chimney? It does when I close my stove more than halfway. I'm burning kiln dry wood and tried it with 12 - 16 % seasoned wood. It usually takes 30 minutes for smoke to come. and watching it on the nest camera. I tried shutting it down at different temps and loads. Seems worst on windy days. So I am thinking a damper might allow more of the secondary burn to happen without the draft and outside conditions pulling the smoke out but not sure . Also waiting on a new cap.

Some smoke but not a lot. One interesting thing about the European 118cb stoves is that it is my understanding that the secondary air is locked in the middle position by a machine bolt To make sure you couldn’t starve the stove of air. You have a theory regarding the damper. It is worth trying because drafts, fuels, and other variables vary a lot.

 

[MR. GLO]

i just leave the rear secondary air control in the middle position and regulate the front air trying to operate the stove to maintain a 400 F stovepipe temperature. Air needed changes with outside temperature (draft gets stronger as temperature differential gets bigger) and fuel types. Right now in Iowa we are having a sustained long period of zero degree weather. My 35 foot tall chimney draws really hard so lots of times the front air supply is nearly closed and I still burn at 400 degrees. I’m burning really dry red elm and it burns hot. With shorter chimneys and wetter wood you will for sure need to change air settings. That’s why even after burning and heating with wood for nearly 45 years I still rely on my stack thermometer to know what is happening in the stove.

Well you settings advice was test good. It seems like I have to set my air almost all the way down (After 5 minutes of reload). Usually at reload with dry wood (under 18 percent) I go to half way on air, but Im getting 620 degrees or on the stove top plate (almost center of the cooking plate area) . Where do you take the temps. Since the top is so long it seem like the stove top is all over the place on temp readings. This stove can creep very fast.

 

[Flyboyslc]

Well you settings advice was test good. It seems like I have to set my air almost all the way down (After 5 minutes of reload). Usually at reload with dry wood (under 18 percent) I go to half way on air, but Im getting 620 degrees or on the stove top plate (almost center of the cooking plate area) . Where do you take the temps. Since the top is so long it seem like the stove top is all over the place on temp readings. This stove can creep very fast.

you are correct on the stove heating up quickly with dry wood. I place my magnetic thermometer on the stovepipe about 2 feet above the stove top. I try to regulate air intake to maintain 400 plus or minus 50 degrees going up the stove pipe. My goal is to not have condensation in the masonry chimney. I don’t use a damper or draft controls just the stove air controls, so very small air control changes can result in big stack temperature changes.

 

[WarmerWithWood]

That is about right. I do think the 602 door is the same door as the 118cb. I have to be careful loading the 118. You need to not jam in wood along the sides that will put pressure on the secondary air tubes that are high up in the corner just below the top baffle. My experience with Jotul revolved around a Jotul 121 which is a monster. They were made for just a year or two about 1978. I used the 121 to heat my entire 2500 sq ft home for 25 years. You could put over twice the wood load into the 121 compared to the 118. If you ever get a chance to buy one jump on it. Here is a picture. I moved it to my shop when i put geothermal heat in the house. Just use the 118 in the basement to supplement the heat a little (really a lot!)

View attachment 256769View attachment 256770
That is an 8 inch red elm log loaded onto a hot bead of coals. Slid in a nice wedge of oak next to it. Could have slid in more yet on top of both of them but just didn’t need that much heat in the 1200 sq foot shop that day.

Love the ELG ...