Jotul F400 for 1100 sq. ft.

[cycloxer]

I'm looking at a Jotul F400 to put on my hearth as a secondary heating source. I currently have natural gas baseboard heat, so this doesn't need to replace that. I have been burning wood in my fireplace for a few years. Is it worth it to throw in a stove like this? The stove is going in a main living/dining room that is 32' x 14' w/ 14' cathedral ceilings. I plan to put it on my hearth, partially in my fireplace (which is a massive 46" x 35" x 20") with a top vent.

 

[branchburner]

Well worth it, but try to bring the stove out of the fireplace opening as far as possible for best results. In that room it sounds like you could go even bigger. Got any pics?

 

[Timebandit]

Go for the F600.

 

[begreen]

In 1100 sq. ft.? Not unless the house is missing a window pane. The F400 sounds like a good choice based on the goal and house size.

 

[cycloxer]

The main room has two 3' passage ways open all the way to the cathedral ceiling. So I think the heat will flow quite well to the kitchen and bedroom. I am also looking at a Hearthstone Shelburne, but that is getting to be a pretty big stove. I think that would be a better choice if this was to be my primary heater. I also considered inserts, but they are more money, I don't really like the way they look, and covering my 46x35 opening is problematic.

Really the goal of the stove is to provide secondary heat and get more efficient use of my firewood. My fireplace works just fine and you can make really nice, hot fires, but it's not an efficeient use of wood.

 

[Skier76]

We have a Castine and it heats up our 1000 sq/ft A frame no problem. Granted, it hasn't gotten "that" cold and A frames by nature have a very open floor plan.

I think for supplimental heat, that's a good sized stove for what you plan on doing. And it's going to be at least half...if not less than the cost of an insert.

 

[cycloxer]

I think the Castine is a nice looking stove. My plan is to clean up all of the brick in the firebox before I put the stove on the hearth. I have 40" of depth so I can play around with the position of the stove while maintaining the 16" front clearance w/o having to extend the hearth.

I am very turned off by the look of inserts, their cost, and the noisy blowers. I helped a friend of mine move and install his massive 5100 Quadrafire and while the unit looks okay and throws a ton of heat, it is just not my style.

 

[Skier76]

Our Castine is in VT. We kicked around getting an insert for our fireplace in CT. The guy at the shop gave me a rough quote of $4200 to $5k for a Jotul insert. Oil would have to be $10 a gallon for us to justify that. We're back to our original idea of maybe getting a Jotul QT and putting that in our fireplace; a similar idea to what you're doing. Just something to help "suppliment" the heat.

 

[cycloxer]

4-5k is a big number. The break-even on that is quite a few years out. Of course if oil prices go up in the future (good bet) this will come in a bit. However, the wood guys usually up the price of their wood too. I can put in stoves myself and do the liner, so I figure I can get the whole thing done for a little over 1.5k w/ the current tax incentives. My natural gas burner is 80% efficient and the price of NG is 1.32 per therm. A cord of hardwood is selling for 250 around here. When you run the numbers, heating w/ NG is the same price as wood right now (low $16 per million Btu) and all you have to do is turn up the thermostat. I'd like to have a secondary heating system where I can get 70% efficiency out of my wood instead of the 10% I am getting now. If I run those numbers, it would take me 10 years to break even on the stove. Unfortunately, NG is a very cost effective fuel right now. I am able to get about 1/2 cord of hard Maple off of my own lot every year. So of course I get that for the free with a little work.

Has the Castine been a good stove for you?

 

[Skier76]

We just bought the stove back in late July. We have a weekend place up in VT, so we've been burning on the weekends for a few weeks now. It's been somewhat of a warm fall, so I can't say how it does during the really cold spells just yet. But so far, so good! We think it's a great stove...and it looks sharp as well. The key with this stove or any EPA stove for that mater is well seasoned wood. I'm amazed at what a difference burning seasoned wood makes. The old stoves would handle pretty much anything, these EPA stove drop in temp pretty quckly if you start loading the fire box with green wood.

 

[firefighterjake]

4-5k is a big number. The break-even on that is quite a few years out. Of course if oil prices go up in the future (good bet) this will come in a bit. However, the wood guys usually up the price of their wood too. I can put in stoves myself and do the liner, so I figure I can get the whole thing done for a little over 1.5k w/ the current tax incentives. My natural gas burner is 80% efficient and the price of NG is 1.32 per therm. A cord of hardwood is selling for 250 around here. When you run the numbers, heating w/ NG is the same price as wood right now (low $16 per million Btu) and all you have to do is turn up the thermostat. I'd like to have a secondary heating system where I can get 70% efficiency out of my wood instead of the 10% I am getting now. If I run those numbers, it would take me 10 years to break even on the stove. Unfortunately, NG is a very cost effective fuel right now. I am able to get about 1/2 cord of hard Maple off of my own lot every year. So of course I get that for the free with a little work.

Has the Castine been a good stove for you?

I think the Castine would be a great fit for your size home . . . or any similar sized stove . . . if you truly are looking for a secondary heat source for those wicked cold nights, times when yuo lose power or want some ambiance.

I personally like the look of inserts for masonry fireplaces . . . but that's just my preference.

As for the price . . . yeah, it's a big cost up front, but on the bonus side: 1) doing this now means you get to take advantage of the 30% tax credit, 2) you get far more meaningful heat from a woodstove vs. a fireplace which is nice for those wicked cold nights, 3) natural gas may be cheap now, but will it contnue to be cheap . . . and 4) natural gas is easy . . . but with a woodstove you always can stay warm regardless of whether or not the electricity goes out. Also, keep in mind, doing stuff yourself as you mentioned can lower the price . . . and you can always go with a less expensive stove . . . many may not be as "pretty" (beauty being in the eye of the beholder of course) but they perform just as well.

As for the break even time frame . . . a lot of this depends on how often you will use your woodstove (many of us started out thinking we would only burn weekends or evenings and now are burning 24/7) and the availability of wood . . . while you may not have a large wood lot, if you have access to a truck and saw you can always scrounge for trees that are down . . . many folks are happy to have folks cart away their wood . . . most folks would not however be very happy if you attempted to tap into their natural gas line or if you attempted to carry away a few buckets of heating oil.

 

[cycloxer]

Yeah I think a Castine is the right size. I mostly just want a well-built stove that fits with minimal modifications and one that will put out the appropriate amount of heat. I think if I go any bigger than the Castine I will have to run it too cool or I will overheat the room.

I looked at Inserts, but they are another 500 bucks for the same size stove. Plus you have to add in the expense of the surround and my fireplace will require a very large surround. To me it is not worth all the extra cost. In addition, the last thing I want on my hearth is a noisy electric blower. Plus, this is not the way to go for a secondary back-up heat source. When the power goes off I end up w/ a stove that is wedged into my fireplace, sealed off from the rest of the house, and the blower is dead in the water. A basic cast iron stove sitting on the hearth that is exposed to the room is going to be much more useful in this situation.

Also, I plan to fabricate my own block-off plate sealed in below the damper to minimize the heat loss up the chimney.

The other stoves I have considered are:

The Hearthstone Shelburne. This is bigger, more expensive, and may require me to extend the hearth. I do really like the look of this stove and it seems to be built like a battleship.

The Vermont Castings Encore 1450 Non-Cat. I actually like VT Castings stoves, but people do seem to have their fair share of problems with some of them. I'm shying away from this one as I want a stove that works w/ no shenanigans.

 

[Skier76]

I think you're heading in the right direction based on your needs. I'm in full agreement with you regarding the reasons to put a freestadning stove in vs. an insert....we're in the same school of thought with our place in CT.

I think the quality of the Jotul stoves are very good. They seems last a good long time. Make sure you keep us posted..and post up some pics when you get the stove!

 

[gibson]

I'm looking at a Jotul F400 to put on my hearth as a secondary heating source. I currently have natural gas baseboard heat, so this doesn't need to replace that. I have been burning wood in my fireplace for a few years. Is it worth it to throw in a stove like this? The stove is going in a main living/dining room that is 32' x 14' w/ 14' cathedral ceilings. I plan to put it on my hearth, partially in my fireplace (which is a massive 46" x 35" x 20") with a top vent.

Yes! I bet it'll look real nice. You will get so much more out of it than the open FP. Like some other Jotul owners here, my only regret is not going with the blue/black enamel. Not that there is anything wrong with the matte black but the enamel may require less touch up down the road.

 

[cycloxer]

Here are pictures of my hearth before intall. Note that my fireplace opening is 46" wide x 35" tall x 20" deep and the raised hearth extends another 20" into the room.

I also looked at an F 500 Oslo as I have an opportunity to pick up a used one that has very little use and is in new condition. It is a great stove, but the clearances for my hearth mount become problematic.

 

[Arlo]

In 1100 sq. ft.? Not unless the house is missing a window pane. The F400 sounds like a good choice based on the goal and house size.

LOL...I actually have one in my 1200 sqft house. This time of year, a window is open but its nice because you get heat and fresh air at the same time. Later in winter, EVERY ONE who walks into our house is jealous of how toasty it is any time of day. That stove is hugely overarted for our house, but it rocks

 

[cycloxer]

Swept the chimney last week and after a little Trisodium Phosphate action this afternoon, the hearth is ready for the stove. The contenders are:

Jotul F 400 Castine - brand new matte black stove, this is an easy fit w/ no mods

Jotul F 500 Oslo - used, very light use, matte black, a little big for this application, mods required

Hearthstone Shelburne - really like the 2 cu. ft. firebox and huge glass, fits w/ a few mods

Decisions, decisions...

 

[ansehnlich1]

Hey the castine will do you fine. So would the shelburn. Looks like they both take a 20 inch log. You don't need the oslo in there, it would work, but it'd get mighty warm, trust me.

I have the Oslo, in approximately an 18 by 30 foot cathedral ceiling combination kitchen/living room, with dining room, foyer, and one bedroom straight off of that and straight across from the stove, 1800 sq. ft. on first floor total, new construction and good insulation, mostly open floor plan, and only on the coldest days here in south PA does it struggle to keep the place warm, and that would only be way out around the corner from the stove in a whole different area of our home where the master bedroom/bathroom are located.

The jotuls put out some serious heat when they're cranked up

 

[cycloxer]

Yeah I agree that the Oslo is a bit too much. I really like the stove, but I think it is overkill for this application. I would also run into clearance problems in that my hearth is not quite deep enough to be legal. I have a similar setup with cathedral ceilings, but my entire floor is only 1,100 sq. ft. and the main living/dining room is 450 of that. I really only expect the stove to properly heat this area. Yeah, some will get to the bedroom, but I don't mind if it is a little cooler at night.

Here are a couple of demo's of an F 400 and an F 500. Not too much different, but the F 400 is shallower and I am legal on all clearances. Im leaning towards the new Castine, plus I can get it for a decent price.

 

[DBoon]

Take a look at a Lopi Answer or a PE Vista also. These would be good sizes for what you are looking to do. Though I can't speak for what kind of "style" you are looking for.

Both of these stoves have a secondary outer jacket that helps move the heat out of an enclosed area (like a fireplace) and into the room. If you want, you can also add a blower (which you should do - you don't have to use it all the time or at all - but it's hard to add later on).

I also didn't want an insert, so I just have my stove freestanding in the fireplace opening. My Lopi Answer does pretty well for me in taking nearly all the heat load in a cold climate when I am there to feed it.

 

[Later]

I wanted an Oslo but the clearances were a bit much so we bought the Castine and couldn't be more pleased.