Jotul Kennebec vs. F3CB

[waterloom]

We have an unusual fireplace situation--the hearth is sunken 10" below the living room floor--which limits our stove choices. We currently have an Avalon steel stove sitting inside the fireplace that has given us mediocre results. But our biggest issue with the Avalon has always been the loudness of the fan (not replaceable, out of production). It is way too loud for conversation, TV, etc. So now we are thinking about replacements and are returning to Jotul--we burned an old Jotul 118 box stove for almost 30 yrs until one of the side plates finally cracked last year. The choices (in terms of fit) are either a Kennebec insert or a freestanding F3CB. First, the Kennebec: how loud is the fan? Jotul says the fan is optional. Do we need it? This stove is used mainly to heat a 500 sq ft LR/Kitchen (~1000 sq ft first floor). We have small circulation fans that help a lot. Why is the fan optional?
We are also considering the F3 CB, but it will only extend out of the fireplace about 6" because of the sunken hearth. How much would this diminish the output? We don't want to end up just heating the firebox--we want room heat. But I do love a freestanding stove for cooking during power outages.
This is the third winter that we have been through this process--of trying to figure out how to cope with our weird fireplace (see attached photo) and need for wood-fired heat. Can anyone help?

 

[begreen]

Hi Sue, welcome. Before we could suggest alternatives, it would help to have the actual dimensions of the fireplace H, W & D at front and H&W;at the back. How large is the room that the stove is in? How large is the house and how well insulated?

The F3CB would look charming in there, but it is a smaller stove and has no fan. The Kennebec would perform much better.

PS: love the copper ash bucket. It matches the copper wash boiler nicely.

 

[waterloom]

Thanks! We do too. The fireplace is 23" w at rear, 47" w at front, 30" h fr/floor to crossbar. Depth of fireplace from back wall to face is 25", 43" to face of "pit" (which is 10" deep).

 

[nshif]

Is there a block off plate below the fireplace damper?

 

[Shak]

I had an F3 partially inside of a fireplace. It was very ineffectual. If your stove can not be in front of the fireplace it should have a blower on it for best results. The F3 is a pretty little stove, but it has limited capacity and is really just a room heater.

 

[waterloom]

What is a block off plate? The damper is 36" above the floor and 6" above the lintel.
We are also tentatively considering a Morso 1710. How would this compare with the Kennebec?

 

[waterloom]

Yes, we do have a block off plate.

 

[waterloom]

Is there a block off plate below the fireplace damper?

Yes.

 

[begreen]

Sue, sorry I got diverted. Regardless of make, I think you are going to need a big stove.

How large is the room this is in and how large is the house? There are a lot of insert options, however I don't want to suggest one that will drive you out of the room.

Given the desire to have a quiet blower (variable speed) and a cooking shelf, I am wondering if a Quadrafire 3100i would work here.

 

[Mike Wilson]

The Kennebec would fit your needs, heat the area you have, and give you overnight burns. I would not get it without the blower, in fact, I believe it is no longer even an option, I think it's standard. On low, which is where I keep mine for 3-4 months out of the year, it is very quiet, hardly noticeable. On high, you'll hear it, but you'll also get a lot of heat out quickly, so you won't be keeping it on high for long. Definitely run it into a 6 inch flue, with a block off plate.

-- Mike

 

[waterloom]

The Kennebec would fit your needs, heat the area you have, and give you overnight burns. I would not get it without the blower, in fact, I believe it is no longer even an option, I think it's standard. On low, which is where I keep mine for 3-4 months out of the year, it is very quiet, hardly noticeable. On high, you'll hear it, but you'll also get a lot of heat out quickly, so you won't be keeping it on high for long. Definitely run it into a 6 inch flue, with a block off plate.

-- Mike

Thanks--that is what I wanted to know. We have a masonry flue, 10.5 sq, w/a block off plate. Do we have to go stainless?

 

[waterloom]

Sue, sorry I got diverted. Regardless of make, I think you are going to need a big stove.

How large is the room this is in and how large is the house? There are a lot of insert options, however I don't want to suggest one that will drive you out of the room.

Given the desire to have a quiet blower (variable speed) and a cooking shelf, I am wondering if a Quadrafire 3100i would work here.

I just looked at the Quadrafire, but we don't want another steel stove. Do you think that the Kennebec is too small for us?

 

[begreen]

Sue how can I tell? I've asked for some info on the house and room with no answer.

 

[Mike Wilson]

If you are only heating 1000sq/ft then the Kennebec is more than sufficient. I use mine to heat a 1700sq/ft zone and it's fine. I would definitely get a liner, the stove is fantastic with it, and so-so without it. You can get a liner kit on Ebay and do it yourself for 350.

-- Mike

 

[Mike Wilson]

Also, FYI, only the front of the Kennebec is Cast. The rest is plate steel in a shroud.

-- Mike

 

[waterloom]

Sue how can I tell? I've asked for some info on the house and room with no answer.

House is 2-story, about 1800 sq ft. LR/DR are about 500 sq ft (this is where the stove will be located). We would love to be able to heat the entire first floor, but these this room is crucial.

 

[waterloom]

If you are only heating 1000sq/ft then the Kennebec is more than sufficient. I use mine to heat a 1700sq/ft zone and it's fine. I would definitely get a liner, the stove is fantastic with it, and so-so without it. You can get a liner kit on Ebay and do it yourself for 350.

-- Mike

How hard is it to install? Our flue is a straight run from chimney cap to fireplace. Would a self-install affect our insurance? How does a liner affect stove performance? Is it because it is insulated and smaller in diameter?

 

[begreen]

House is 2-story, about 1800 sq ft. LR/DR are about 500 sq ft (this is where the stove will be located). We would love to be able to heat the entire first floor, but these this room is crucial.

The Kennebec should handle this well.

 

[Mike Wilson]

How hard is it to install? Our flue is a straight run from chimney cap to fireplace. Would a self-install affect our insurance? How does a liner affect stove performance? Is it because it is insulated and smaller in diameter?

It's quite easy, I did it with a friend over his home, took us 2 hours total. The liner we bought on Ebay for him was the same one I had professionally installed in my home, except my friend saved a thousand dollars doing it himself. The main difference it makes is the smaller diameter. The liner makes the Kennebec a predictable machine... without it the stove becomes weather and wind dependent, as I imagine any other stove would be. I had my Kennebec for one year without a liner, and 2 years with a liner... I would not operate her without a liner. I have an uninsulated liner in a 12" OD tile flue.

As for insurance, if you are going to go the inspection route, etc, it should be no problem. They may want it inspected, or you can just leave the cast iron surround off the Kennebec and have the insurance/building dept inspector have a look for himself.

-- Mike

 

[Gooserider]

The Kennebec would fit your needs, heat the area you have, and give you overnight burns. I would not get it without the blower, in fact, I believe it is no longer even an option, I think it's standard. On low, which is where I keep mine for 3-4 months out of the year, it is very quiet, hardly noticeable. On high, you'll hear it, but you'll also get a lot of heat out quickly, so you won't be keeping it on high for long. Definitely run it into a 6 inch flue, with a block off plate.

-- Mike

Thanks--that is what I wanted to know. We have a masonry flue, 10.5 sq, w/a block off plate. Do we have to go stainless?

You definitely should, probably have to... Current codes say that the chimney cross section area can't be more than 2x the stove outlet diameter on an exterior chimney, 3x on an interior chimney - a 6" flue is about 28 sq. in, if that 10.5" is an inside measure, you have over 100 in^2... Bright side is that you should have enough room for an insulated liner, which is preferable.

The other thing that would concern me, is that your pit sounds like it only has about 18" between the face of the fireplace and the edge. That is barely enough to meet codes, and I suspect it could be considered a problem because of possible radiant heating of the floor beyond the pit. I know the standard clearances are based on the assumption that you will have a flat floor in front of the stove, I'm not sure how the pit changes that, but you may have an issue if you install anything that sticks out beyond the face of the fireplace.

Gooserider

 

[waterloom]

OK, thanks to all of your help, we have now switched gears completely and are going to fill in the pit and put in a Hearthstone Homestead. We will extend the hearth forward with some sort of tile to protect the floor in front of the stove and will also put in a shield to protect the mantle above. This will enable us to have a freestanding stove that should provide us with plenty of heat as well as the functionality of a stove vs. an insert.

We will also install a chimney liner via a kit from eBay (a GREAT suggestion, thanks!). The Hearthstone takes 21" logs, which means a good long burn time (like our old Jotul). We have always been attracted to these soapstone stoves but couldn't figure out how to make one fit. I was mildly concerned about the lag time in heating up a soapstone, but since we burn continuously during most of the winter, it will rarely be "off." How do you all rate Hearthstone stoves?

 

[begreen]

Hearthstone makes first rate stoves. You should be very happy. It will look great in there. Please keep us posted with the progress and take lots of pictures.

 

[waterloom]

Just a follow up to this discussion. We eventually decided on a Hearthstone Heritage, which fit the opening perfectly and warms our house nicely. My husband had to retrofit the hearth by filling it in with concrete blocks, then paving over with brick, raising it by about 10"--we no longer have a pit. The hearth is now only about 3" below the floor level. We insulated the chimney with a steel pipe and added a fireplace surround and shield to protect the mantle shelf. I have posted the "after" pictures on the photo forum for all to see. Life is good (and so much more peaceful without that noisy fan). Thanks for all of your help with this project. Happy New Year!

 

[begreen]

Wonderful Susan. It looks great. Congratulations!!

 

[Gooserider]

Nice looking install. Glad it is working well for you.

Gooserider