Just need clarification please.

[Danno77]

Hi all, been reading your forum for a couple of years now, and am now in need of help figuring something out. I live in a 150 year old house and have been working diligently at restoring it to it's original (or at least original looking at times) grandeur. But, anyway, my questions revolve around a possible installation of a stove. I'll try to provided needed information, let me know if it's insufficient.

I found a small pot-bellied kind of stove that is very sturdy looking, yet very small, I'm not sure if it's all that old, but it looks old (I see newer ones around, so I dunno). If I can get a "quote" made up for my accountant (yeah, that's code for the wife) then I'd like to install it into our bedroom. I have pine floor, so I know I can't set my stove right on it. On one side of the room is the chimney. It has plaster right on the brick and I can see a shadow of a thimble hole or whatever it's called into the chimney. I'll have to take exact measurements, but I think the interior size of the chimney is about 12"x12".
There are several things to know about this chimney.
1. It is unlined, or if it is lined it is with galvanized pipe.
2. The chimney is not being used at all as the new furnace vents via pvc out the foundation.
3. A tornado hit my house years ago and the chimney from just below roof level and up is some sort of galvanized looking pipe with a vented cap on it. The chimney is in the condition it was when I moved in two years ago. I wasn't concerned because it wasn't being used.
4. Previous use of the chimney was for a natural gas furnace (converted Coal burning furnace). I do have a picture of it being removed before we moved into the house. I wish I would have kept it. hindsight is 20/20.

The house is brick, so i'd like to avoid any suggestions about putting a chimney through any exterior walls.... otherwise, I submit myself to your wood-burning expertise!

The bedroom is on the second floor. This is a 2.5 story house (finished attic). What other information do I need to complete this project? Is there a possibility that I can use black stove pipe to the chimney, and then use flexible SS pipe for the remaining (15ft?) distance out the stack? Is there a cheaper solution? Is it unlikely that I can utilize the existing chimney passage at all?

I do have pictures of the house and room and chimney, etc etc. but my work prohibits the use of my photo site. So I can't direct you towards any specific pictures. Here's a link to the album, for size of chimney I think there are "basement" pictures and you can count bricks, there might actually be a picture of the chimney pipe under "attic" pictures.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j53/DannoSpider/Hamilton House/

thanks in advance....
-Danno

 

[cmonSTART]

As far as I know, wood stoves cannot be put in a bedroom. It's against code.

Welcome!

 

[begreen]

Greetings Danno. Woodstoves are not allowed to be installed in the bedroom. If this is for ambience, consider putting a small classic looking, vented gas stove in maybe?

 

[joesat78]

Just curious...
Can we (put a bed and) sleep in a room with the wood stove?
Is there a problem with CO here?

 

[Valhalla]

How about a proper wood (or pellet) stove on the first floor? In the living room, den, etc... The heat will rise to the bedrooms and without overheating them. I personally like cool sleeping!

Choose wisely.

 

[Danno77]

As far as I know, wood stoves cannot be put in a bedroom. It's against code.

Welcome!

well, that sort of solves that one, doesn't it? I have to admit that while I know electrical code, building code, etc etc. I am VERY naive on fire/furnace/stove etc codes, although that does seem to be a basic and obvious code. OK. This bedroom is directly above my living room which could also accommodate a stove. So, that adds to the question (code advice welcome), but original questions still stand. Same chimney access, but I guess I now have the option of stove pipe through the ceiling and into my bedroom (seems like code might play a role here) then out the chimney. BTW, there is a gravity vent in the bedroom, so heat does have a way to rise into my room!

The primary goal is to supplement the current furnace. I have access to firewood and enjoy cutting/splitting/etc so while the ambiance is nice, the primary goal is general heating. I have a fireplace (have utilized this forum to propose a stove set into it in the near future). That is on another chimney in an addition to the house. I utilize it nearly on a daily basis during the colder months. I'll not get into that setup here, but let's just note that the room it sits in would be unusable if not for the supplemental heat. I used MAYBE 2 cords a year for the past two years in that fireplace. This stove would be used less than the fireplace, I'd guess about a third as much. My goal was to install a stove into the inefficient fireplace and install this other tiny stove and be able to use the same amount of wood.

I appreciate the quick feedback. Also, I notice that the link I provided didn't quite work right. I suggest a copy-paste for those who are interested.

 

[begreen]

That may work ok, though why run the pipe up through the ceiling into the bedroom? If possible I would tap into the chimney at the livingroom level. Do you know the interior throat dimension of this chimney? It seems like this will work, but only after getting the old chimney legal and safe with an insulated liner and possibly a new cap. If you could post a picture of the attic part of the chimney and the roof part of the flue, that would help.

 

[webbie]

It is not due to a CO problem......that wood stoves or open fireplaces are not allowed in bedrooms.

It is because most bedrooms are small confined areas that have doors which close them off from the rest of the house. This can cause many problems, including lack of combustion air to feed the fire and smoke backdrafting.

 

[Danno77]

I figured the heat of the pipe would help heat the room above better than natural convection. I think the interior of the chimney is about 12x12. Not sure without looking at it again.

thanks for the help, Mr. BeGreen.
-Danno

 

[Danno77]

let's see if I can inundate you with pictures.

Here are pictures of the chimney in the basement. Structural engineer says chimney isn't going to collapse or anything. I know it looks bad. The furnace in those pics is gone. There's actually a picture of the orig coal stove, wish I kept it. The picture of the pipe in an attic looking space. The pic is crooked, but where the floor is (this is the hip space by the finished attic) is about where the brick chimney ends and this galvanized looking stuff begins.

For some reason I don't have a picture of anything above the roof (at least not on this computer). imagine that galvanized stuff for about another 2-3 feet. No where near the peak of the roof, FWIW.

 

[begreen]

It looks like the old chimney will just be a chase. After all the old galvanized stuff is removed, I would guess that it will take transitioning to class A pipe at where the galvanized starts?

Without seeing the roof, it's hard to know whether the current location for this chimney is the best location or not. How tall will the exterior pipe need to be in order to honor the 10/2/3 rule?

PS: I can see why you are considering alternate locations now. If this results in better stove placement and/or better chimney location, it may be worth considering. We ended up tearing out a chimney and putting a very nice built in closet, drawer system in it's place.

 

[Danno77]

I'm not sure I understand the 10/3/2 rule completely, but if it helps, here is a picture showing the basic pitch of the roof. You can see a skylight on this picture. Imagine that the bottom of the skylight is about the same location as the chimney on the other side (well, actually, more towards the middle of the house, but still the same height up on the roof). I'm not sure what the pitch is, but you can tell it is sure steep. If I had to guess I'd say 14:12 or so. I know pictures can be hard to figure, so estimate that the actual vertical height of the peak of the roof from the gutter is about 10ft.

So, explain the rule to me a little more. Since my chimney exits within the confines of the roof, do I have to come above that peak? or just 3ft up?

 

[fossil]

The chimney must, in no case, extend fewer than 3 feet above the point at which it penetrates the roof. Then, it must further extend to a minimum of 2 feet above any part of the structure within 10 feet horizontally from it. 3' is the absolute minimum, then you go on up from that point if necessary to meet the 2' above anything within 10' part of the rule. Clearer? Rick

 

[Danno77]

The chimney must, in no case, extend fewer than 3 feet above the point at which it penetrates the roof. Then, it must further extend to a minimum of 2 feet above any part of the structure within 10 feet horizontally from it. 3' is the absolute minimum, then you go on up from that point if necessary to meet the 2' above anything within 10' part of the rule. Clearer? Rick

crystal clear. Thanks for repeating something that I likely could have looked up on the forum! I appreciate it. So, since my bedroom is about 15 feet wide, then so is the house, so the midline of the roof is going to be less than 10ft, I need to come to about 2ft over the peak. Gotchya. I guess that means I need about 10ft over the roof if I do this! Seems kind of long and likely expensive, no?

 

[Adios Pantalones]

If you have the pitch, and the distance from the peak, then you can pretty easily figure the chim height. That's a steep @$$ roof (maybe 12/12?), so if you're going through a chimney on an exterior side wall, it has to be 8' (rough height to the peak), plus 2'.

 

[begreen]

Flue pipe is expensive, yes. But IMHO it's a more important investment than the stove. Consider it infrastructure and do it well.

 

[Danno77]

Good news is that I was wrong. the chimney is much higher on the roof than i remembered. That pipe that I show a picture of in the attic space is actually the sewage vent pipe. The Chimney pipe looks to be aluminum. Depending on what is just under the roof (i can't see without pulling the old chimney stack off) I should be able to do this with 4-6ft of chimney.

That's much better price-wise. I still likely will need to run flex or something from the stove to roof, so like 25-30 feet.

BTW, here is a picture of a SIMILAR stove (I found on this on CL for 65 bucks).

What's the consensus on a small stove like this? easy to use? PItA to cut wood the right size? any other advice? I'm really looking for a small stove that would look right in my very old rustic feeling home. (we aren't talking log cabin rustic, but more like mid 1800s upper-lower to middle class rustic, make sense?)

 

[fossil]

That's 19th century "caboose". I wouldn't expect much out of it beyond a bunch of "cute" for all your trouble & expense of safely installing it. You're going to have to default to the standards laid out in NFPA 211 for clearances to combustibles and hearth construction. If you're going to press ahead with this, we can help you out with all of that. Safety First! Rick

 

[Valhalla]

Good news is that I was wrong. the chimney is much higher on the roof than i remembered. That pipe that I show a picture of in the attic space is actually the sewage vent pipe. The Chimney pipe looks to be aluminum. Depending on what is just under the roof (i can't see without pulling the old chimney stack off) I should be able to do this with 4-6ft of chimney.

That's much better price-wise. I still likely will need to run flex or something from the stove to roof, so like 25-30 feet.

BTW, here is a picture of a SIMILAR stove (I found on this on CL for 65 bucks).

What's the consensus on a small stove like this? easy to use? PItA to cut wood the right size? any other advice? I'm really looking for a small stove that would look right in my very old rustic feeling home. (we aren't talking log cabin rustic, but more like mid 1800s upper-lower to middle class rustic, make sense?)

Pass on this stove. They run like a blow torch. Find a proper airtight.

 

[Danno77]

ok, so other choices that would be appropriate (and not expensive)?

Should I choose a stove similar to that one, can it effectively heat about 4000cuft (read carefully, not sq ft).

BTW, why do stoves always talk about how many sq ft they are effective in? When I looked at furnaces they always had you determine how many cuft you were working with and what the adjacent walls were in terms of brick/insulated/vaulted ceiling, ceiling under attic, etc. Seems more appropriate, especially when some houses have 10ft ceilings or 14 foot ceilings, or vaulted ceilings, or three feet of stone, or 6" frame with no insulation, basement underneath, crawlspace underneath, concrete slab...... you get the idea.

 

[Valhalla]

ok, so other choices that would be appropriate (and not expensive)?

Should I choose a stove similar to that one, can it effectively heat about 4000 (read carefully, not sq ft).

BTW, why do stoves always talk about how many sq ft they are effective in? When I looked at furnaces they always had you determine how many cuft you were working with and what the adjacent walls were in terms of brick/insulated/vaulted ceiling, ceiling under attic, etc. Seems more appropriate, especially when some houses have 10ft ceilings or 14 foot ceilings, or vaulted ceilings, or three feet of stone, or 6" frame with no insulation, basement underneath, crawlspace underneath, concrete slab...... you get the idea.

Square foot sizing is used because it is easy for the common man. Many homes have high ceilings and such, this is where an occasional ceiling fan and some registers may be helpful to move the air to the second floor.

Keep looking on this fine Hearth.com about sizing a stove and at manufacturers like Woodstock stoves and their fine library at the right side of the webpage at http://www.woodstove.com/ , also Jotul and others, etc. Do your research thoroughly and do not rush into this without all the facts for your home and need.

 

[Danno77]

thanks for the links. I've read quite a bit, and will continue looking at the information on this and other sites. Someone suggested getting a new stove. I'm game. i'm digging the authenticity of a potbelly in my home and size-wise i think i'm in the ballpark as it's only supplemental heat. Can someone tell me where to find a potbelly stove? I've looked locally for some dealer and am coming up empty handed. Seems my only source is CL or the internet unless I want a standard stove or insert from a Big Box store or my local Farm and Home supply.

 

[fossil]

I don't think you'll find anything resembling a potbelly stove that is a modern, efficient, EPA approved woodburner. At least I've never seen one. Rick

 

[Danno77]

I don't think you'll find anything resembling a potbelly stove that is a modern, efficient, EPA approved woodburner. At least I've never seen one. Rick

yes, I'm finding that you are right. At least, i can find a new one: http://www.lehmans.com/jump.jsp?itemType=PRODUCT&itemID=2729 , but it's not EPA approved, or UL tested.

 

[Valhalla]

Danno,

Consider a Jotul F 602 CB, see the link:

http://www.jotul.com/en-us/wwwjotulus/Main-menu/Products/Wood/Wood-stoves/Jotul-F-602-CB/

It is small, classic looking and has great function for a small space and fair price.