Kuma Sequoia draft issues.

Matt93eg Posted By Matt93eg, Dec 7, 2018 at 10:51 AM

  1. Matt93eg

    Matt93eg
    Burning Hunk 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 18, 2013
    166
    51
    Loc:
    North Carolina
    Hey guys,

    Wife and I moved into our new home this past April. We had our sequoia installed this past summer so this is our first cold season with it. I am going to do a formal review after this heating season.

    I want the opinion from you guys on my issue. It’s related to draft and I believe it was bigvoodoodaddy that had this issue as well. I have roughly 25 feet of 8” pipe. First 14 feet is singlewall stove pipe to the support box. The rest is class A from there out. It is a straight shot all the way. My draft is WICKED. It didn’t take long to notice this. I have been burning for 1 1/2 months or so off and on since I am in N.C. those of you that know the sequoia it has a large round opening on the back and bottom to use with a fresh air kit. If you don’t use the FAK(which I’m not) the stove pulls its air through this 4” opening.

    Since my draft is crazy turning down the air completely even in 40-45 degree out door temps the fire was still obviously getting to much air. I started by doing the same thing as BVDD and blocking off some of the rear 4” hole. I have literally blocked all but a “sliver” of the rear opening and in 35 degree outdoor temps the draft is still to strong.

    Pretty frustrating. So the sequoia also has 4 round holes on the front above the glass. I assume to pull air in and wash the glass. Last night I did a test and closed two of them off with aluminum foil. This helped. I ended up blocking off all 4 of the front air holes and watched it for quite some time. This made a huge difference. I don’t like modding things on a stove but I have got to stop some of this draft. Needless to say 9 hours later I still had a slightly active cat and stove top was 450-475. I also still had way more wood left than normal. Does anyone see any issues with plugging the 4 air inlet holes? Or have any other suggestions? Appears to me even though I have almost all the rear inlet closed off the stove just sucks in a bunch of air through those front holes feeding directly to the coal bed. My last house and stove(non-cat) had a short 12 foot run of 6” and draft sucked unless it was in the 30s out. Now I have to much draft which I think in a sense is a better problem to have.

    With just the sliver opening in the back and temps in the 50s I could load sequoia at 6am and leave for work. Come home at 6pm and still have plenty of coals and still have a 450 degree cat. Once it dipped into highs of 40s this week I was barely making it home in time to light another load on the coals and my overnight burn time dropped a lot with the colder temps. Plugging front holes fixed that last night. Thoughts?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. Rockey

    Rockey
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 18, 2007
    791
    98
    Loc:
    SW Ohio
    I thought the 4 holes were for secondary combustion. I wouldnt block them totally but maybe an insert with a smaller ID to restrict the airflow some. Maybe you would benefit more from a key damper on the stack or a combination of that with restricting the intake would work.

    Here is what I would use on the secondary holes. If you could find 4 inserts with the right ID to restrict the intake

    36955ac7-e25e-41b8-b702-9fee0a65cbfc_zps9srvr3mm.jpg
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    Matt93eg likes this.
  3. jetsam

    jetsam
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 12, 2015
    4,106
    2,857
    Loc:
    Long Island, NY
    Get a key damper and unplug your poor stove's air inlets! You may want to get a manometer too, so you can quantify and monitor your draft.
     
    Woody Stover likes this.
  4. vwmike

    vwmike
    Feeling the Heat 2.
    NULL
    

    Oct 7, 2013
    252
    102
    Loc:
    Chilliwack, BC, Can.
    Since you have single wall pipe what about a pipe damper? Cheap and easy.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. Matt93eg

    Matt93eg
    Burning Hunk 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 18, 2013
    166
    51
    Loc:
    North Carolina
    Pipe damper is an option. Would have to be done after this string of up coming cold weather.

    Jetsam, they may be secondary air but plugging them saved my wood and seemed to have no ill affect in lighting off the cat and or keeping it lit.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. jetsam

    jetsam
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 12, 2015
    4,106
    2,857
    Loc:
    Long Island, NY
    I don't know your stove, but I'd advise you to call the Kuma techs and ask if there are specific reasons that you shouldn't restrict air in that fashion. There may be airflow considerations that are not immediately apparent in blocking off this intake or that intake.
     
  7. Matt93eg

    Matt93eg
    Burning Hunk 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 18, 2013
    166
    51
    Loc:
    North Carolina
    I would agree that it might not be the best practice. I’m actually going to stop at Lowe’s later today after work and get an 8” pipe damper. What I am hoping is that later on this evening the stove will be cold enough to deal with, I can remove any coals into my ash bucket and install the damper. Be nice to have it before this weekend. Then hope it slows the draft down enough. This is all dependent upon whether or not there is enough room to get the round damper plate up into the stove pipe from going in through the stove. Make my measurements. Drill the holes. Slide the damper in through stove up into pipe. Feel around and get rod lined up and then done. Hopefully.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    77,252
    12,543
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Good to hear you are going to try this. A pipe damper in single-wall is a 30min project. It should help a lot with taming the strong draft. Make sure it is high enough above the flue collar so that it can be fully opened and not hang up on the screws securing the pipe to the collar.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  9. SculptureOfSound

    SculptureOfSound
    Feeling the Heat 2.
    NULL
    

    Sep 9, 2017
    331
    48
    Loc:
    Wisconsin, USA
    I think I need a damper too, air all the way down and secondaries rage away for an hour or two, stove top is about 610 but my flex liner that I can hit with the IR gun is about 400 maybe eight inches above the stove. Seems like the air doesn't spend enough time in the insert.

    Anyhow, can a damper be installed into a piece of round to oval flex? That's all that is exposed above my insert.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. jetsam

    jetsam
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 12, 2015
    4,106
    2,857
    Loc:
    Long Island, NY
    Big box stores in my area do not carry stovepipe. Your area might be different. Be aware that a galvanized 8" HVAC damper is not the same as a woodstove flue pipe damper.
     
  11. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    77,252
    12,543
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Inserts present a different challenge. As a test you might want to try a more restrictive cap with a reducer to 5'?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  12. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    77,252
    12,543
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  13. Matt93eg

    Matt93eg
    Burning Hunk 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 18, 2013
    166
    51
    Loc:
    North Carolina
    Thanks Guys. Heading to Lowe’s now and yes I looked and they sell a 8” that is black steal for like 8 bucks.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    blacktail likes this.
  14. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 25, 2010
    10,439
    2,979
    Loc:
    Southern IN
    I recently saw bholler say that if one key damper isn't enough, put in a second one. They have some holes in them so I wondered if maybe you could close those off somehow and get away with one damper. I haven't though how it might be done, though..
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  15. Woody Stover

    Woody Stover
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 25, 2010
    10,439
    2,979
    Loc:
    Southern IN
    Furnace cement? Might fall out after a while..
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  16. Matt93eg

    Matt93eg
    Burning Hunk 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 18, 2013
    166
    51
    Loc:
    North Carolina
    Hey never thought about 2! Guess you could for sure. I got my pipe damper earlier but the stove is still to hot and with the colder weather this weekend and part of next week I doubt I will let it go out so I can install the damper looking at the forecast should be able to let the stove go out later next week and then install.

    I will say that although plugging the front holes might not be ideal it has worked as far as cutting back the draft. I loaded the sequoia this morning at 6:15am and as of right now at 6:48pm the cat probe is at 400 and the stove top is 350-370 and still putting off heat and still a lot of coals in the box. So while at Lowe’s earlier getting the damper I kinda figured I might not be able to install it right away so for now what I did was I bought a pack of 3/4” round magnets. I came home and put them on the front holes but I only blocked 1/2 of each hole. This will let some air in those holes but not the full amount. If I see I need more air I can slide the magnets to the side. I will go this route this weekend since I will not be at work and can keep an eye on it. Then hopefully end of next week get the pipe damper installed.

    These little magnets will be put to use anyways, one of my pet peeves is when not in use and on a windy day the stove sucks air through those holes and it whistles pretty loud. It’s annoying. So during the summer and all I will have the magnets on them to keep my A/C in and keep stove from whistling.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  17. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    77,252
    12,543
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    The AC system sounds like it may be unbalanced if it's putting a strong draw thru the stove. Seems like that would stink up the house with stale stove smell too.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  18. Matt93eg

    Matt93eg
    Burning Hunk 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 18, 2013
    166
    51
    Loc:
    North Carolina
    I think I mis explained it. When the stove is out and a windy day the chimney will draw air and it sucks it through the front holes of the stove and causes a loud whistling so I figure during that draft from the chimney it could suck some of my conditioned air out of the house. Not that it would be that much though.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  19. SculptureOfSound

    SculptureOfSound
    Feeling the Heat 2.
    NULL
    

    Sep 9, 2017
    331
    48
    Loc:
    Wisconsin, USA
    Know of anything that will work with duravent 6" oval pipe?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  20. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    77,252
    12,543
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    What cap is on or over it?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  21. John B

    John B
    Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Sep 26, 2012
    55
    21
    Hey I am in the same boat. I just recently installed a Seqouia insert and have a 25' straight chimney. I called and spoke to a fellow there about my draft, if you haven't already give them a call as they will go above and beyond to help you out.

    For now I used a 4" metal dryer elbow to a flexible duct to bring around front and I have been blocking my intake with foil tape. I have a maybe 1" diameter round opening and I am able to get 12 hours burns if I pack it well and leave the air turned down.

    I've also been wondering about the holes on the front and if I can plug them, and I may ask next time I call them. I also get the whistling when its windy out and not in use.

    I dont want to do a pipe damper due to this being an insert. It would be difficult to put a damper in my installation.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  22. SculptureOfSound

    SculptureOfSound
    Feeling the Heat 2.
    NULL
    

    Sep 9, 2017
    331
    48
    Loc:
    Wisconsin, USA
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  23. Matt93eg

    Matt93eg
    Burning Hunk 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 18, 2013
    166
    51
    Loc:
    North Carolina

    Hey man, glad your getting the draft toned down. For me I have less than a 1” opening in my foil tape on the back. I will say that now after a few more days of partially closing the front 4 holes with 3/4” round magnets that this is probably not the way to go permanently. I believe Jetsam was right about it being air inlet holes for secondary combustion.

    Here is what I have noticed. Load fresh load of wood on bed of coals. Shut door, primary air wide open. Get to 450-500 and close cat bypass. Cat will hit 600 and I start closing primary air. Soon after you can look around the bypass damper rod and see the cat glowing red. I then have primary fully closed. When he gets to 700-800 or so that is all the heat I need in current temps so I will take the magnets and block half of each of the 4 front holes. Within a few mins that bright orange glowing cat will start to get dimmer.

    Sometimes after 15 mins it will not glow at all. Now with that said I still am getting 10 hours or so with the holes partially blocked with the cat probe reading in the active range but I figure cat should be glowing. However I also read glowing doesn’t mean active. According to my condar probe I’m active with no glow and I will also say there is no buildup On the cat either other than dust. So maybe it’s fine closing the holes partially. I’m installing the pipe damper probably tm or Thursday. I have not yet had a chance to let the stove go out.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  24. Matt93eg

    Matt93eg
    Burning Hunk 2.
    NULL
    

    Nov 18, 2013
    166
    51
    Loc:
    North Carolina
    UPDATE:

    Finally had a chance to let the stove go out and cool down. Installed the pipe damper today. Wasn’t gonna start a fire with temp only being low of 40 tonight and it was 52 out still at 6pm. Well I grabbed some of my old elm splits and built a fire. Now it’s only 50 outside so that slows the draft down some versus 25-30 but so far the pipe damper is doing the trick.

    She has been humming along with no fire action in the box but the cat is cruising just fine. I hope it continues like this when the temps drop back down in the 20s and 30s. Cat probe is reading 850. This is with the primary air closed. And the pipe damper closed. Cat is glowing. Seems to be performing way better than with the 4 holes on the front partially plugged. Took a quick picture to show the fire box.
     

    Attached Files:

    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  25. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
    NULL
    
    Staff Member

    Nov 18, 2005
    77,252
    12,543
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Your temps are not horrible and a strong secondary burn for an hour or two is not bad. Before modifying the flue, maybe try closing down the air sooner and some bigger splits?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...

Share This Page