Laddomat problem

[McKraut]

I fired up the boiler yesterday for the first time this season. I was bringing the boiler up to temp when I realized the controller on the Biomass indicated that the circulator was on, but I did not hear the Laddomat circulating.
I verified that the transformer was delivering 240V to the relay, the relay is working, and I was getting 120V from the Biomass. I bypassed the relay and plugged the circulator directly into the transformer to ensure it was getting the 240V. The pump on the Laddomat made no noise or any other indicator that it was working.
The Laddomat has been in less than 2 years and I can't believe this has crapped out on me. It's been in the 40s and 50s here and I've had to use the woodstove in the house to keep us warm, but I am getting bitched at because of the dust it causes.
I bought the unit from Brian at Up North Energy Solutions and I've reached out him, but I haven't heard back from him yet. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you

 

[rkusek]

check out Maples recent post on this. The circ may have "stuck" from sitting idle. Disconnect power, take cover off and "free" it. I had a stand alone Taco 007 that did this over a summer a few yrs back.

 

[Clarkbug]

Yup, it can happen that the rotor gets sticky. Some pumps have a little endcap that will let you stick a screwdriver in and free it, others you have to take farther apart. But you should be able to get it spinning with a little bit of futzing.

 

[maple1]

I fired up the boiler yesterday for the first time this season. I was bringing the boiler up to temp when I realized the controller on the Biomass indicated that the circulator was on, but I did not hear the Laddomat circulating.
I verified that the transformer was delivering 240V to the relay, the relay is working, and I was getting 120V from the Biomass. I bypassed the relay and plugged the circulator directly into the transformer to ensure it was getting the 240V. The pump on the Laddomat made no noise or any other indicator that it was working.
The Laddomat has been in less than 2 years and I can't believe this has crapped out on me. It's been in the 40s and 50s here and I've had to use the woodstove in the house to keep us warm, but I am getting bitched at because of the dust it causes.
I bought the unit from Brian at Up North Energy Solutions and I've reached out him, but I haven't heard back from him yet. Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you

Quite a coincidence - check my 'check yer pumps' thread.

Mine is an LK and not a Laddomat, but they are likely quite similar. Can you see a make/model on the pump part of it? Mine is just a Grundfoss 15-58, so I could find directions on how to deal with it in a 15-58 manual. Be sure to isolate the unit with ball valves so water won't start spraying before you tackle unsticking it. It's a pretty easy procedure - if you have good access to it.

BTW mine said to first switch the pump to high speed before powering it, and that might unstick it. But that didn't work for me.

 

[McKraut]

On my way to check it now.....

 

[McKraut]

Yep, that was it. Thank you for the help. Boiler is up to 180, house is warm, and I am happy. I did not see Maple1's post earlier. I was trying not to spend time in the house, on the computer and Hearth Forum, within yelling distance of the wife. Now we're all happy.


Thanks again fellas for your help. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!

Bob

 

[McKraut]

Other than running the pump intermittently over the summer, is there any way to prevent this from happening in the future? Is there something that can be lubricated at the end of the season?
I am glad this was only a stuck rotor and easily solved. If I needed a new part or anything else, I would be in real trouble because I am still waiting on a response from Brian.......

 

[maple1]

I don't think so.

For next year, I am thinking about wiring in a switch that would bypass the aquastat and I could manually turn on periodically to exercise my pump. Just turn it on for a few minutes, once a month or so. I also have a flu gas thermostat that controls mine, with a dial temp adjustment, I might also be able to just turn it down all the way to turn the pump on too. Not sure I'd get it put back in the right temp setting though, it seems to be pretty touchy on the dial. Even doing that or putting a switch in would likely be easier for me than opening up the pump, the way I have it situated. I should likely exercise my load pump too while I'm at it.

My dealer got right back to me on it, next day. Or I guess it was first thing Monday morning. Sounded like it was an uncommon occurance for the LK - my luck seems to be like that sometimes. Mine was only sitting for 3 months, but it seemed to be stuck pretty good.

 

[McKraut]

I don't think so.

For next year, I am thinking about wiring in a switch that would bypass the aquastat and I could manually turn on periodically to exercise my pump. Just turn it on for a few minutes, once a month or so. I also have a flu gas thermostat that controls mine, with a dial temp adjustment, I might also be able to just turn it down all the way to turn the pump on too. Not sure I'd get it put back in the right temp setting though, it seems to be pretty touchy on the dial. Even doing that or putting a switch in would likely be easier for me than opening up the pump, the way I have it situated. I should likely exercise my load pump too while I'm at it.

My dealer got right back to me on it, next day. Or I guess it was first thing Monday morning. Sounded like it was an uncommon occurance for the LK - my luck seems to be like that sometimes. Mine was only sitting for 3 months, but it seemed to be stuck pretty good.

I was hoping a drop or two of oil would keep it spinning. I also considering hardwiring the pump with a switch and powering it every few weeks. I believe that is the way to go.

Brian was great up to the sale of the pump, but ever since, he hasn't kept promises or responded to emails. I consider it a lesson learned.

 

[McKraut]

I was just informed by another member that, unfortunately, Brian died this past Spring.

Bob

 

[maple1]

Uggh, that's too bad. I was thinking it had been a long time since I had seen him post here.

 

[foamit up]

I put an outlet and a plug in the power line from pump to boiler. That way during off season i can unplug and plug it straight into power to run it a little once a month. Done this for years and works great. Foamit Up

 

[velvetfoot]

This doesn't relate to the boiler circ pump, but the thermostats my zone circs are hooked up to have a test mode that allows them to be run.

 

[Bob Rohr]

Eventually all the circulator pumps we install will be ECM, this is already a requirement in Europe, starting next year.

The ECM,s being DC motors have a much better starting torque, which should eliminate this sticking.

Also adding hydronic chemicals, with good clean fill waterfall help keep components from sticking.

Water quality in hydronic systems is becoming a huge issue.

 

[McKraut]

This doesn't relate to the boiler circ pump, but the thermostats my zone circs are hooked up to have a test mode that allows them to be run.

Which thermostats do you have?

 

[velvetfoot]

Ecobee Smartsi

 

[velvetfoot]

I thought ECM pumps have other issues, like iron getting attracted to their magnets.

 

[Tennman]

OMG! Brian passed? I have a Laddo so I thot I'd read this out of curiosity. Very sad. He was a great guy and very energetic about all this stuff. From his voice I would guess him to be in his 40's. As I recall, a Mechanical Engineer that just loved this stuff and decided to go for it and start a business (no small feat for anyone). His not responding was not like him, so very sorry to hear this.

McKraut, Aren't you the guy who stopped by our place on your way Nawth to somewhere outside Bedford?

Well... very bummed to hear of Brian's passing, Wonder if it was an accident cause he seemed young and full of vigor. Our days are numbered and in God's hands. RIP Brian

Any info would be appreciated. Nothing on the Up North website about him passing.

 

[McKraut]

OMG! Brian passed? I have a Laddo so I thot I'd read this out of curiosity. Very sad. He was a great guy and very energetic about all this stuff. From his voice I would guess him to be in his 40's. As I recall, a Mechanical Engineer that just loved this stuff and decided to go for it and start a business (no small feat for anyone). His not responding was not like him, so very sorry to hear this.

McKraut, Aren't you the guy who stopped by our place on your way Nawth to somewhere outside Bedford?

Well... very bummed to hear of Brian's passing, Wonder if it was an accident cause he seemed young and full of vigor. Our days are numbered and in God's hands. RIP Brian

Any info would be appreciated. Nothing on the Up North website about him passing.

No Tennman I haven't had the opportunity to meet you yet. I am the one that lives about 30 minutes from Breezewood along I-70. You've helped me with the Biomass and I asked you about using poplar for siding on my woodshed.,

Bob

 

[woodsmaster]

also make sure your controller has some vent holes in the case. Mine didn't when I bought it and the heat ruined the capacitor. the pump light would come on but it didn't put out the right power for the pump to work. I ended up buying a new controller and drilled some holes in the case it slides into.

 

[Bob Rohr]

I thought ECM pumps have other issues, like iron getting attracted to their magnets.

Only if you have magnetite in the system. Most often that condition is caused by O2 getting into the system on a continuous basis, non barrier radiant tubing is one common culprit.
Open system OWF without oxygen scavengers added is another, or any system open to atmosphere with ferrous components, may cause problems for permanent magnet wet rotor pumps.

A few recent examples. The cast boiler section was connected to a non barrier rubber tube system, the same happens with early polybutylene systems.

When you next flush or drain fluid from your system, take a magnet to any debris the comes out, if anything sticks, guess what. Somewhere, some how you have O2 ingress.,

Improperly applied float type air vents can actually allow air, O2 into systems.

 

[velvetfoot]

Improperly applied float type air vents can actually allow air, O2 into systems.

Could you elaborate on that?

 

[Tennman]

Ditto.... about to install some air vents. Have a Taco cast iron one inline, but intend to add several of the small ones that install in a tee..... How could I improperly install these? Sounds like my thought on having multiple vents could be bad.

 

[Clarkbug]

If you have an autovent on the portions of your system that may experience a negative pressure, you can pull air in.

Bob can be more precise/technical, but imagine you put an autovent on the top of a riser that then drops to the inlet of a pump. If the system pressure is low, the pump starting could cause the float in the vent to drop and pull air. As the system heats up and the pressure goes up, the problem may go away. But it will return when the system cools.

Autovents are good at the top of tanks and certain risers in your system. Some Taco vent scoops use them as well. Just look out for using them on the inlet side of a pump.

 

[Tennman]

Copy. Thx