Large Locally made stove, help with liner

[Ty Burgoon]

I've been doing a LOT of reading on this site, but can't find a suitable answer for my situation. I have a large stove, inside firebox is 26" wide, 24" deep, 22" tall. Which comes out to about 7.9 cu ft.... It is a "slammer" and the chimney sweep was concerned about a flue fire.

I want to put in a liner to help with SAFETY, but also efficiency if possible.
I also REALLY want to add a block off plate to trap the heat coming off the stove. The prior owner ripped out the damper. So directly above the stove is a 32" x 7.5" wide rectangle that has no way to stop/slow the airflow into the chimney. I think I lose a lot of the heat up into the chimney.

Couple questions:
1) based on the size of my firebox, I think I will need an 8" diameter liner? Correct? I'm thinking 6" would be too small.
2) I'm considering a rigid 3' pipe attached to the stove (which has a rectangle vent 16x4) sticking up into the chimney as far as it would go. I did some measuring and think I can fit that in, rather than a more expensive flex liner. I'll attach a picture, but there is about 3.5' from top of stove to the bottom of the clay liner (7x11 inner measurements). Is there a problem with a rigid sticking up into the chimney partially? I know the ideal is a liner the whole way, but the chimney is simply too small for 8" liner, even if I ripped out the clay tiles.

I think this would be a good compromise between simplest and cheapest to increase safety without investing 1000's for new stove and chimney, etc. For a stove as big as mine, I don't think I can do what is required for the liner to be totally perfect.... And I'm on a budget.

The only other consideration was a freestanding small stove to do an alcove installation and get a smaller liner. Your advice would help so much!! Thanks. Winter is almost here....

Picture is taken from where the rectangle vent would be looking into the chimney. Smoke shelf is at bottom of pic. There is about 3.5' from bottom of clay tiles to the phone.

 

[bholler]

I've been doing a LOT of reading on this site, but can't find a suitable answer for my situation. I have a large stove, inside firebox is 26" wide, 24" deep, 22" tall. Which comes out to about 7.9 cu ft.... It is a "slammer" and the chimney sweep was concerned about a flue fire.

I want to put in a liner to help with SAFETY, but also efficiency if possible.
I also REALLY want to add a block off plate to trap the heat coming off the stove. The prior owner ripped out the damper. So directly above the stove is a 32" x 7.5" wide rectangle that has no way to stop/slow the airflow into the chimney. I think I lose a lot of the heat up into the chimney.

Couple questions:
1) based on the size of my firebox, I think I will need an 8" diameter liner? Correct? I'm thinking 6" would be too small.
2) I'm considering a rigid 3' pipe attached to the stove (which has a rectangle vent 16x4) sticking up into the chimney as far as it would go. I did some measuring and think I can fit that in, rather than a more expensive flex liner. I'll attach a picture, but there is about 3.5' from top of stove to the bottom of the clay liner (7x11 inner measurements). Is there a problem with a rigid sticking up into the chimney partially? I know the ideal is a liner the whole way, but the chimney is simply too small for 8" liner, even if I ripped out the clay tiles.

I think this would be a good compromise between simplest and cheapest to increase safety without investing 1000's for new stove and chimney, etc. For a stove as big as mine, I don't think I can do what is required for the liner to be totally perfect.... And I'm on a budget.

The only other consideration was a freestanding small stove to do an alcove installation and get a smaller liner. Your advice would help so much!! Thanks. Winter is almost here....

Picture is taken from where the rectangle vent would be looking into the chimney. Smoke shelf is at bottom of pic. There is about 3.5' from bottom of clay tiles to the phone.

To make it safe you need to get that pipe fitted snugly into the clay liners. You also need to inspect the clay liners for condition and the chimney for clearances. And yes you can. Get enough liner in there to handle an 8".

I also don't know where the idea. That firebox size is what determines liner size. Yes it goes into it but there are many many more factors. Including inlet size and location baffles firebox shape etc etc.

 

[Ty Burgoon]

When you say "yes you can" in your first sentence. Are you saying yes you can to putting a short rigid section between stove and bottom of clay liner? I will get it up in there as far as it will go, but an insulated 8" would be 10.5" OD. and my clay tile is 7". Chimney sweep thought the clay tiles were in good shape and decently clean.

Inlet is two 3" diameter holes in the door that screw in/out for airflow. No baffle on top to reflect heat. Just 1/2" or so cast iron between fire and above stove. Shape is a cube with the back narrowing width and height because fireplace narrows at the back also and for smokeshelf. Only blowers are on each side of stove. It's not an efficient stove, this I know.

 

[bholler]

When you say "yes you can" in your first sentence. Are you saying yes you can to putting a short rigid section between stove and bottom of clay liner? I will get it up in there as far as it will go, but an insulated 8" would be 10.5" OD. and my clay tile is 7". Chimney sweep thought the clay tiles were in good shape and decently clean.

Inlet is two 3" diameter holes in the door that screw in/out for airflow. No baffle on top to reflect heat. Just 1/2" or so cast iron between fire and above stove. Shape is a cube with the back narrowing width and height because fireplace narrows at the back also and for smokeshelf. Only blowers are on each side of stove. It's not an efficient stove, this I know.

Yes but probably not with rigid. Just do flex. And why do insulated there just use single. Wall with an adapter on it to go into the bottom of the clay. Or a section of rectangle flex would be the best option if all you are doing is a direct connect.

 

[Ty Burgoon]

Thanks! I didn't know if insulated would be necessary. My thought process was that clay tile is so large that I'd want the gases to stay as hot as possible leaving the stove. The large tile may (?) allow cold air down to cool the gases creating creosote. But I'm not opposed to single wall as it's cheaper, I just want to do what is best for safety and hopefully gain at least a little efficiency. Thanks for your input!!

 

[bholler]

Thanks! I didn't know if insulated would be necessary. My thought process was that clay tile is so large that I'd want the gases to stay as hot as possible leaving the stove. The large tile may (?) allow cold air down to cool the gases creating creosote. But I'm not opposed to single wall as it's cheaper, I just want to do what is best for safety and hopefully gain at least a little efficiency. Thanks for your input!!

That little bit of insulated pipe don't make any difference at all. And really your clay is sized pretty close to right to match an 8" round. Yes the area is larger but the flow will be similar.

 

[Ty Burgoon]

So I talked to a local inspector today to ask about my situation. He used to sell and install wood stoves himself. He recommended just putting a 6" black stove pipe down the current chimney and direct connect to my insert. That would line it the whole way up the chimney, rather than halfway like the 8" flex liner. My concern is still the size of pipe. I'm not sure a 6" would be sufficient for the size of my insert. What do you think? This guy didn't seem too concerned, even though he know it was a large insert and would accept 24" logs.

 

[bholler]

So I talked to a local inspector today to ask about my situation. He used to sell and install wood stoves himself. He recommended just putting a 6" black stove pipe down the current chimney and direct connect to my insert. That would line it the whole way up the chimney, rather than halfway like the 8" flex liner. My concern is still the size of pipe. I'm not sure a 6" would be sufficient for the size of my insert. What do you think? This guy didn't seem too concerned, even though he know it was a large insert and would accept 24" logs.

That was your inspector???? What a damn joke

 

[Ty Burgoon]

I take that you would say 8" haha

 

[bholler]

I take that you would say 8" haha

Well yes but more so the fact that he said to use black pipe. If this is the advice an inspector gives it is no wonder we see the scrap we do.

 

[bholler]

Black pipe won't last more than a couple years in there. Then you have to deal with a rusted out falling apart mess and figure out how to get it out of your chimney. Honestly he should be reported to his superiors.

 

[Ty Burgoon]

I see. What's the difference then with a freestanding stove set up using black pipe? I know several who have the set up where the black pipe runs straight up through the roof. Will they have the same problems with it rusting? I'm just curious what changes with it being in a chimney vs. running up in an open room.

I'm leaning towards just an 8" flex to the bottom of the clay. Simplest and least risk I think.

 

[Ty Burgoon]

Now that I think about it, I suppose it is just because of exposure to the elements. The black pipes inside won't ever have moisture on them like ones in a chimney are at risk to get. Is that the case?

 

[bholler]

I see. What's the difference then with a freestanding stove set up using black pipe? I know several who have the set up where the black pipe runs straight up through the roof. Will they have the same problems with it rusting? I'm just curious what changes with it being in a chimney vs. running up in an open room.

I'm leaning towards just an 8" flex to the bottom of the clay. Simplest and least risk I think.

Well there are several differences the one that bothers me most considering this is from an inspector is it is against code. Anything that is inaccessible in the chimney needs to be stainless. The difference in durability comes from the environment it will be in. You will have condensation in the chimney that you won't in the open. And if they have black pipe going through the roof that is very dangerous from a fire standpoint.

Now a direct connect where you just run up into the bottom liner defiantly has more risk than a full liner but it is better than nothing

 

[bholler]

Now that I think about it, I suppose it is just because of exposure to the elements. The black pipes inside won't ever have moisture on them like ones in a chimney are at risk to get. Is that the case?

Yes

 

[Ty Burgoon]

Well there are several differences the one that bothers me most considering this is from an inspector is it is against code. Anything that is inaccessible in the chimney needs to be stainless. The difference in durability comes from the environment it will be in. You will have condensation in the chimney that you won't in the open. And if they have black pipe going through the roof that is very dangerous from a fire standpoint.

Now a direct connect where you just run up into the bottom liner defiantly has more risk than a full liner but it is better than nothing

Yes. I know it is more risky from creosote standpoint. I meant risk as in a safer bet than the 6" as it might choke down my large firebox. That would risk having the get a different stove if it chokes it down. Final thoughts from you:
8" flex to bottom of the clay OR
6" uninsulated all the way up the clay tile?

 

[bholler]

Yes. I know it is more risky from creosote standpoint. I meant risk as in a safer bet than the 6" as it might choke down my large firebox. That would risk having the get a different stove if it chokes it down. Final thoughts from you:
8" flex to bottom of the clay OR
6" uninsulated all the way up the clay tile?

My final thoughts are a properly sized and insulated liner from the stove out the top of the chimney. It is the only way I would do it in my house or for a customer

 

[bholler]

And report that inspector

 

[Ty Burgoon]

My final thoughts are a properly sized and insulated liner from the stove out the top of the chimney. It is the only way I would do it in my house or for a customer

Right. That's ideal. Properly sized seems to be 8" which is too big for my clay tile in the chimney (7x11 inside diameter). So being on a budget under $500, liner to the bottom of clay acceptable?

 

[bholler]

Right. That's ideal. Properly sized seems to be 8" which is too big for my clay tile in the chimney (7x11 inside diameter). So being on a budget under $500, liner to the bottom of clay acceptable?

No it is. Not to big. You can go oval