LARGE open fireplace design for LARGE ROOM

[mnowaczyk]

double-sided
four feet wide
2 feet deep
adjustable height (needs to be set)
16 inch flue
20-25 foot tall flue
116' x 30' room w fireplace centered dividing the long room

This is fgor a charity who has an endless supply of wood

Are there double-sided inserts that would fit this scenario?

 

[Creek-Chub]

Am I the only one seeing 2 30-NC's side by side on each side of this thing? In my minds eye, of course. You're probably not interested in four stoves, but man. It would be ugly, but you might stand a chance at heating that space. That, or some sort of a customized masonary unit. Sounds like a perfect opportunity to get super creative, but I'm sure you'll get better responses from the pros.

 

[begreen]

A fireplace for heat these days is an oxymoron. Maybe get a Hearthstone Equinox that looks good on the non-fireside, but still radiates some heat?

 

[Jags]

Your looking at almost 3500 sqft. Possibly the BIS Tradition or that big Kodiak monster. Not sure how the back side is gonna look though. Maybe extend the hearth on both sides, run two 6" stacks and pick two stoves of your liking??

 

[mnowaczyk]

I think this old preist is mostly concerend with smoke in the building, which is a very valid concern with 8 foot wide dooras and windows, and a double-sided fireplace, asking for wind to blow straight through. Add the fact that the 16 inch x 20 foot chimney might as well be a hole in the ceiling. This is probably a good time of year to test it as the 46-64 degree temps will probably make the temperature and pressure higher outside at many times of day.

I think I'm going to suggest he get some ceramic glass for both sides to prevent an air tunnel. Maybe he could even do somehting wild to make air-tight doors.

Right now, he's basically got a big hood above the fireplace, with no possible secondary burn. I'd like to see if there's any potential to create some chambers for a secondary burn and less smoke. That might be a ridiculous dream, huh? Too big of a space I assume.

The camp is basically a metal scrap ground and everything is welded together out there. I assume that if anyone can create the air chambers required for a secondary burn, this old preist could do it. I just need to get him a decent design. Too bad I'm coming into this project too late. This thing doesn't appear to be designed for the "smaller, hotter fire".

It's a cool challenge, and if I only had more time, I'd try to make sure he's making the best possible design. Unfortunately asthetics are a primary concern, and my time is limited. The priest is 96 too, so this can't be a year long project.

Very cool old preist has built so many things in our town, and can get almost anything done in the catholic church... but he just wants to weld. Pretty wild! I'd like to help him out with this project if possible.

 

[Jags]

Right now, he's basically got a big hood above the fireplace, with no possible secondary burn. I'd like to see if there's any potential to create some chambers for a secondary burn and less smoke. That might be a ridiculous dream, huh? Too big of a space I assume.

The idea of a secondary burn is to have a superheated reburner (tubes or cat) that ALSO introduces a regulated secondary oxygen source. This allows all the nasty stuff in the off gassing to hit something (or get close) really hot with oxygen available for it to burn up before it gets expelled out of the stack. I won't say impossible, but I think the task would be VERY difficult to get good results, partly because of the vast amount of air that a fireplace sucks up the stack.

It sounds like you are sticking to the "fireplace", not opting for a stove. Its gonna be a tough job.

Maybe take a look at these folks:
(broken link removed to http://www.spartherm.com/fla/einsatz/durchsicht/index.html)

It might give you some cool ideas.

 

[karri0n]

If you're looking to actually produce heat with this thing, and still have it look like a "real" fireplace, I think your only choice is to go with a masonry heater. http://www.mainewoodheat.com has lots of interesting ideas, and even sell just their cores if you don't want them to make the heater itself.


Other than that, it's gonna have to be a stove. You can't make an open fireplace with secondary burn really, and the amount of air it pulls into the space from the outside completely overpowers any heat it might produce.

 

[mcollect]

We had the same situation in our home. It was designed by two architects we know, very much a Craftsman style house think Greene and Greene. It had a huge opening on both sides and, while beautiful when lit, it lowered the house temp by 10 degrees. After fifteen years I finally relented, wife loves fires, and had a Jotul 550 installed. . The side that looks into the living room and the Jotul looks great.On the dining room side I had a custom glass and wrought iron screen applied the screen allows heat to escape and it is dark enough inside that in the dining room that it looks like a one sided unlit fireplace. This year we never needed to heat that floor, just the basement.

 

[SlyFerret]

As an open fireplace, that thing is going to do nothing but suck heat out of the building.

He may have an endless supply of wood, but how is the gas budget looking for the furnace?

-SF

 

[jtp10181]

I like the stove idea. Simple and effective.

 

[begreen]

Yep. The biggest BlazeKing or Hearthstone come to mind here.

 

[jlow]

This is what did in our home. It works wonderfully and looks great from the back of the stove. Equinox installed in January.

 

[mnowaczyk]

Nice thread fellas. Thank You! I talked to the guy who did the HVAC (not yet sure of the source for the heat, but it does have heat and AC). I think there is no plumbing in the building yet, if there ever will be. This is like a rec-center or something with two like like 55' x 30' rooms. Now I understand that the immediate concern is to determine the height of the hood (which I still believe has no damper). The base is apparently fixed with some steel plates that have channels for air to be blown underneath them, apparently with the concept of collecting SOME heat to be blown into the rooms. So that's apparently not going to move, and is 3 feet off the ground. There is at least 12" of play to move the hood up and down.

The HVAC dude an I agree that he's got to have some closable glass or something, at least to get the fire started. Otherwise, he's going to get smoke blowing through with cool fires. I'm beginning to think that everyone understands that this fireplace is not going to provide any heat to the room. Maybe a good idea would be to make the height high enought to fit an insert in there in the future. 4 feet wide, 2 feet deep, but how high?

Anyone have an ideal height they'd use in making a fireplace to assure you'd be able to fit an insert in there in the future?

The HVAC dude and I are going to do everything we can to convince the old Italian priest to make at least one side closable, whether it's with ceramic glass, or just some of the scrap steel he lokves to use.

Oh... Thank God they have an outside air intake on this thing. The HVAC guy thinks there should be an outside air intake at not only the bottom of the fireplace, but the top (for the draft) too. I have yet to understand what he's talking about. I would think that would just cool the flue too much.

I'm finally going to try to schedule some time out there to see this thing soon. Looks like I missed my window today. Darn work.

Thanks everyone!

 

[david Lee]

Look at Isokern Fireplaces.

www.isokern.net

look at the magnum series

 

[mnowaczyk]

I posted a picture in the original post at the top. The flue is 16-18 inches round. One interesting thing is that the intake air is not for compbustion, but to warm the outside air before it enters the room. There are channels under the fireplace plate. The system was designed in Italy. I will post that photo in a minute. I also have photos of the air intake, the flue, the air chambers, etc. I believe i've convinced that there should be doors on both sides to be able to close the fireplace. I believe we are in agreement that this fireplace is not likely to make the room warmer. It seems that the goal is to not mkae the room colder. Oh.. one other thing. They plan to have another outside air intake going into the bottom of the hood, I believe the concept here is to make the chimney not suck too much air from the room, but to be able to suck some outside air instead of all air coming from the room. Forget about secondary burn. The photo posted here is a photo of the fireplace that started this whole idea.

 

[gkucera]

Hello,
We had a fireplace similar to that when I was growing up, but far more esthetically built and better utilized. The fireplace area itself was a bit larger and the exhaust was sloped less and a bit wider & lower, leaving only 22" or so between the exhaust and the brick outer lip. Overall it was 5' diameter and the cast iron exhaust/chimney was about 1/4" thick and went up another 8' or so after the slope ended. It had a standard damper to close when there was no fire, which sealed fairly well. I can tell you the cast iron would get too hot to touch sometimes and would heat the entire 900 sq ft. room (with vaulted ceilings and 5 6'x8' single pane glass windows bordering one wall: though temperatures rarely got below 30 degrees) quite nicely. I am sure it was not efficient compared to an airtight stove, but wow was the ambiance awesome witha 360 degree view of the fire in the center of the great room. It made the house! I would do that again if it fit into the style of my home.