Leak in my pond liner

[GibsonGuy]

I have a new pond liner in an old round galvanized cistern tank (800 gallons). I've only been running my EKO since 12/1/07. The tank was very clean, but I decided for safety sake I would use a liner to make sure it wouldn't leak. I am very confident that the leak is a liner failure and not due to a puncture of any sort. I started getting more and more condensation in the room where I keep the tank and store my wood. Luckily, it is in a separate room in my garage so no damage is being done. My water level dropped and I lost prime because the water level had dropped a foot or so. I still attributed that to evaporation. Especially because I was hauling in snow covered wood, so small puddles are common. Weeks later the water level was lower so I started looking around. Sure enough, my tank (pond liner), had developed a very slow leak. The liner is a Firestone 45 mil EPDM. I called the dealer and I don't think there will be a problem with the replacement, but I'm wondering if this was a fluke or should I look into an alternative liner. I wouldn't live without the storage component of this system and I probably won't deal with the leak until the weather warms. The tank is well insulated, 3" of foam, the voids from the square frame are filled with perlite and the frame is 2 X 6 with fiberglass batts. The top is well insulated as well. I am heating my water to more of a 170-175 degree level which is a change from my first couple of months of burning. Initially, my sensor was giving a deflated read so I could only heat the water to 160-165. I called Dave at Cozy Heat and he instructed me to move the sensor so the digital readout was a true representation of the water temp. It only takes an hour or less to gain that increased water temp on the front side, and it allows me to use the water on the back side (storage water) at least a couple of hours or more. I burn daily for 5-8 hours and I have little to no cycling due to the storage. I have in-floor heat so I really don't need to heat the water to 170, but I really like the extended time I get from the water storage.

Are there any others out there with liner failures? I seems that many people keep their water even hotter than what I do. Is there a better alternative that won't send me to the bank? Thanks, John

 

[leaddog]

I also have the epdm liner and I heat mine up to 195*. I haven't had any problems but it's new this year. I'm looking for alternatives as my son is going to be putting in a large underground tank and I've been thinking about going with an underground also. I'd like to come up with something that is easier to put in, like more form fitting. Taking a large sheet of epdm and trying to fold it into a sq. or round tank is not easy. We've though about seaming it as that would make a easier install but would like to come up with something better. I found a recycleing place that has 4x8 sheets of PROLITE laminated fiberglass and I'm tring to see if I can fiberglass the seams to be leak proof.
Any other ideas????????? There must be a ideal tank linner out there
leaddog

 

[steam man]

While doing research for my own storage I noted there are EPDM liner distributors that will custom fit the liner to your specs. They seam weld the pieces together. I am thinking about it though I haven't checked the cost. I am going to look at a few other higher temp rated materials though economics will be a factor. I would check on the temp rating of the fiberglass not to mention how much it expands when heated.

 

[ericjeeper]

Check your PH. If your PH is out of wack the water will leak though the dangdest holes. I used to have a hot tub. when the ph got high it would lose water...... somehow..
My pondliner in my storage tank has seens temps over 212. You ever heard 600 gallons of water boiling underground? Rather spooky. I would turn the solar panels on at night to dump some of the heat back out of the tank.

 

[GibsonGuy]

I am quite certain that the failure is probably due to one of the creases or folds in the liner. As Leaddog mentioned, there are plenty of them when one takes a square liner and sticks it into a round tank. When I spoke w/ one dealer, he said that the liners are rated t0 about 170 degrees, but he wasn't certain about that. The Ph concept is interesting, I'll look into that. I haven't checked mine yet. Although because it is an open system, I guess it is much more prone to problems in that area. I stopped at Cozy Heat this week and he said he thought it was a little premature to check for water quality problems since the boiler was pretreated by the installer. Thanks for the advise. I am going to look into a pre-fitted liner this time round to see if they are affordable.

 

[ericjeeper]

speaking of folds, I have a flat piece of epdm in a rectangle tank. So believe me there were lots of folds involved to make the corners up.
as to the PH The hot tub would need treated every few weeks to keep the balance in check.adding acid or soda.basically.

 

[GibsonGuy]

I just read on Wikipedia that EPDM is supposed to have a working max temp of 150 degrees centigrade. I wonder how accurate that is?

 

[MarcM]

I just read on Wikipedia that EPDM is supposed to have a working max temp of 150 degrees centigrade. I wonder how accurate that is?

According to Wikipedia:

Maximum Service Temperature, Air 150 °C

That stipulation I bolded might be an important qualifier.

 

[Grover59]

My liner has had water in it for about 2 months and has seen temps at about 180 f I have had no leaks or problems at this time, and I have not seen any steam or condensation coming from the tank. So far I am pleased with the tank and liner, the liner does have many folds in it. When this heating season is over I will drain the tank and check it for any problems. I have been only running the tank for about 2 months now and it is working well and I am using dip tubes instead of a hx in the tank, and they seem to be working very well, at this time I am glad I did not spend the extra money for the copper to make a hx for the tank the flat plate was about 250.00.

Steve

 

[NHFarmer]

Steve,
How thick is your liner?

 

[Grover59]

I believe that it is 45 mil

Steve

 

[Grover59]

This is where I got it.

http://www.webbsonline.com/catalog/liner/index.html?gclid=CLWy5N36_Y8CFQIUPAodiQdILQ

 

[GibsonGuy]

CORRECTION: There is NO LEAK in my pond liner. I thought I should set the record straight. The crib around my tank seemed to be the source, but with the warmer weather and lack of condensation, it is apparent that there is no leak. I feel bad if a scared anyone away from this storage solution. I believe it is one of the least expensive methods, if not the least expensive method for storing large volumes of water. I also believe water storage is the only way to go. The open system, which was required by the inspector certainly has its downside and condensation is one of them. I thought I had the tank pretty well sealed up, but obviously not. It is something that I'll work on over the summer.

It had been recommended that I use foil faced bubble wrap on the surface of the water. I painstakingly got things pretty tight, but I would not recommend it. It will not hold up. The foil will come off of the bubble wrap and I'm afraid the pieces may get into the plumbing. I removed all of mine, strained out the particles and replaced it will heavy plastic. I'll probably drain the tank this summer and do a thorough cleaning.

I'll put this into a new post since I want the correction to be more wide spread.