Leaking stove? Do all old stoves leak?

[Bill Wallace]

Hi,

Been heating w/ wood for about 15 years. About 13 years ago I put a Lopi Revere insert in my Majestic Fireplace. The first 5 years or so, I was able to pack the firebox full of wood and do a 10 hour burn. I would get up in the morning and there would still be unburned wood in the stove. The glass would be all covered with a thick creosote or maybe it was just soot.

Now, I can only put two or three logs (as opposed to 9 or 10 years ago) and shut the air down and when I get up, it has burned all the wood. Only ash is left and maybe a few embers. If I load it up, it burns way too hot and there is no way to control the burn.

Gasket is tight-no air leaks there. Did the dollar bill all the way around. Can't budge the dollar bill and it does not suck incense. So the door is tight.

Years ago someone told me that's just how all stoves are. They all eventually leak. I don't really understand why this would b true. What's so hard about sealing a 1/4" steel box? Do all stoves leak? Does anyone have a stove that's been in use 20 years or so and it's still tight?

Here's some specifics:
1.) I dry hardwoods in a covered rack for 3 years before they get burned.
2.) Fireplace is 100% masonry all the way up.
3.) 6 inch liner sits inside the old 8 inch majestic flue
4.) 28 foot chimney-draft is excellent.

 

[DAKSY]

Do you know if the bypass is still operational?
Sounds like that might be the problem area...
If it isn't closing, it won't burn as efficiently or cleanly.
Are you seeing smoke out of the chimney?

 

[Fsappo]

I missed something. Why could you pack the stove full 10 years ago but not now?

 

[Fod01]

Control issues...

If I load it up, it burns way too hot and there is no way to control the burn.

 

[branchburner]

If I load it up, it burns way too hot and there is no way to control the burn.

Welcome to the forums!

If nothing else has changed in the way you burn (flue, wood, technique, etc.) then something in your stove has changed to make it overfire. It certainly sounds like excess air is entering or you have excessive draft. Maybe the air control itself is not functioning properly? Or a leak has developed somewhere other than the door.

 

[Fsappo]

Control issues...

Thanks! Makes sense. So now we have to figure out how to stop wasting all that wood.

 

[branchburner]

Do all stoves leak?

In fact, EPA stoves are designed to leak: they have secondary air inlets that cannot be closed (without modifying the stove) so as to facilitate secondary combustion and prevent (or at least reduce) smoldering burns.

It is the pre-EPA stoves of the 1970s that were designed to be airtight. You could close them down to a super-slow burn, which resulted in smoke, creosote, and many a chimney fire.

We choked down our VC Defiant and created a creosote factory in the late 70s, which gave us quite a chimney fire in an old brick chimney -- had to rebuild/reline the chimney.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

Years ago someone told me that's just how all stoves are.

I've never heard this.

 

[DougA]

I have the same problem with my 30 yr old VC Resolute cast iron, which is why I am replacing it. It used to be easy to control and I could load it fully and get a controlled burn all night but if I load it more than 1/2, it's likely to get too hot and very out of control quickly. Closing everything enough to lower the temps causes severe backpuffing. After 30 yrs., the gaskets and cast iron have more air leaks throughout the stove than a controlled burn can accept. SO - choice was to rebuild at $700 - $1000. or replace. I chose to replace as a 30 yr. old SS chimney cannot pass a WETT inspection (if you are honest about it), regardless of how immaculate it appears.

My solution until my new hearth gets completed is to load half way and baby the old stove until I can remove it and sell it.

You could add some green wood to your mix and that will help keep the fire somewhat under control because it will take the green wood a few hours to dry out before it burns. Of course, it's not a real solution as you'll end up with creosote problems.

 

[DougA]

I've never heard this.

I assume the OP is referring to cast iron stoves that have been used a lot. If that's the case, it's absolutely true. Eventually the cement and castings will no longer be air tight.

 

[Bill Wallace]

Do you know if the bypass is still operational?
Sounds like that might be the problem area...
If it isn't closing, it won't burn as efficiently or cleanly.
Are you seeing smoke out of the chimney?

How would the bypass have anything to do with air entering the stove? The bypass simply allows the smoke to exit either the flue directly (open) or directs it to the front of the stove (closed). In either case, the air has already entered the stove. How would the bypass affect the air entering the stove.It's like saying the compression release on a chainsaw affects the air coming in. Maybe I'm missing something here.

 

[Bill Wallace]

I missed something. Why could you pack the stove full 10 years ago but not now?

I can still fit 10 logs in the stove. It will just overheat with all that fuel. In the past, I could choke the air down and have it burn all night.

Control issues...

Please elaborate. Do all stoves do this? Is there a fix? When I push the bottom rod in (air control) it seems to close always. Could that be not fully closing or could the stove have a leak? How does one find out?

 

[Bill Wallace]

I have the same problem with my 30 yr old VC Resolute cast iron, which is why I am replacing it. It used to be easy to control and I could load it fully and get a controlled burn all night but if I load it more than 1/2, it's likely to get too hot and very out of control quickly. Closing everything enough to lower the temps causes severe backpuffing. After 30 yrs., the gaskets and cast iron have more air leaks throughout the stove than a controlled burn can accept. SO - choice was to rebuild at $700 - $1000. or replace. I chose to replace as a 30 yr. old SS chimney cannot pass a WETT inspection (if you are honest about it), regardless of how immaculate it appears.

My solution until my new hearth gets completed is to load half way and baby the old stove until I can remove it and sell it.

You could add some green wood to your mix and that will help keep the fire somewhat under control because it will take the green wood a few hours to dry out before it burns. Of course, it's not a real solution as you'll end up with creosote problems.

So this sounds like it happens to all stoves. Which is what I was told years ago. It kind of sucks that you get 5 good years out of a stove and then it craps out. The manufacturers should make them easier to rebuild or maintain. Is there a stove out there that does not suffer from these issues, or is it just the natural course of things?

 

[Bill Wallace]

I assume the OP is referring to cast iron stoves that have been used a lot. If that's the case, it's absolutely true. Eventually the cement and castings will no longer be air tight.

It's a LoPi Revere insert:

(broken link removed to http://lopistoves.com/product-detail.aspx?model=210)

 

[Bill Wallace]

I have the same problem with my 30 yr old VC Resolute cast iron, which is why I am replacing it. It used to be easy to control and I could load it fully and get a controlled burn all night but if I load it more than 1/2, it's likely to get too hot and very out of control quickly. Closing everything enough to lower the temps causes severe backpuffing. After 30 yrs., the gaskets and cast iron have more air leaks throughout the stove than a controlled burn can accept. SO - choice was to rebuild at $700 - $1000. or replace. I chose to replace as a 30 yr. old SS chimney cannot pass a WETT inspection (if you are honest about it), regardless of how immaculate it appears.

My solution until my new hearth gets completed is to load half way and baby the old stove until I can remove it and sell it.

You could add some green wood to your mix and that will help keep the fire somewhat under control because it will take the green wood a few hours to dry out before it burns. Of course, it's not a real solution as you'll end up with creosote problems.

What's a WETT inspection?

 

[begreen]

I'm with Daksy on this one. It sounds like the bypass may have become disengaged. Also, it sounds like burning practices could be refined to eliminate the glass sooting.

 

[branchburner]

It kind of sucks that you get 5 good years out of a stove and then it craps out.

Should be more like 15, or even 25 years. Gaskets are one thing, and may last only a few years, but most stoves will not develop cracks or leaky seals unless overfired or otherwise abused.

That your Lopi crapped out after only 5 years is NOT the normal course of events. But certain stove models and designs (like mine!) are prone to overdrafting and can suffer damage to the refractory and firebrick in just a few years with the wrong setup or technique.

Hopefully the source of your problem is easily/cheaply fixable. You say the air control seems to work. When adjusting it to various levels at various stages of the burn, does the fire behave accordingly, so you can clearly see the effects of increased or reduced air flow?

 

[Bill Wallace]

Should be more like 15, or even 25 years. Gaskets are one thing, and may last only a few years, but most stoves will not develop cracks or leaky seals unless overfired or otherwise abused.

That your Lopi crapped out after only 5 years is NOT the normal course of events. But certain stove models and designs (like mine!) are prone to overdrafting and can suffer damage to the refractory and firebrick in just a few years with the wrong setup or technique.

Hopefully the source of your problem is easily/cheaply fixable. You say the air control seems to work. When adjusting it to various levels at various stages of the burn, does the fire behave accordingly, so you can clearly see the effects of increased or reduced air flow?

Yes, and good question: when I shut down the air damper rod (push it further in) the stove usually goes into a secondary burn after a few minutes. And it may have been overfired.

 

[Bill Wallace]

I'm with Daksy on this one. It sounds like the bypass may have become disengaged. Also, it sounds like burning practices could be refined to eliminate the glass sooting.

I'm confident just about all stoves soot up the glass on an overnight burn.

Educate me as to how the bypass damper has anything to do with air going into the stove? The only issue I could think of re: the bypass damper would be the fact that there is a little soot preventing a perfect fit. But...the stove seems to be designed to compensate for this because when I shut the damper and redirect the gas/smoke to the front of the stove, the flue opening in the back of the stove closes completely.

 

[bholler]

Yes, and good question: when I shut down the air damper rod (push it further in) the stove usually goes into a secondary burn after a few minutes. And it may have been overfired.

Have you had it looked at by a pro? It is not normal other than gaskets for a stove to be that leaky that soon. Did you check the glass gasket?

I'm confident just about all stoves soot up the glass on an overnight burn.

Absolutely not true most newer stoves do not soot the glass badly

 

[DougA]

Sorry, it appears that you have a steel stove and the joints should be welded. Nothing at all like a cast iron stove, where sections are bolted together. No, you should not have problems after 5 yrs unless the stove has been abused but as mentioned, sometimes interior sections on poorly designed stoves will disintegrate or warp. My problem was after 30 yrs. of steady 3 season use, plus I aim for much higher temps than many on this forum use, so quite different. Very similar symptoms though so I would have someone check it if you can't find the problem yourself. It should last much longer.

 

[Grisu]

Hi,

Been heating w/ wood for about 15 years. About 13 years ago I put a Lopi Revere insert in my Majestic Fireplace. The first 5 years or so, I was able to pack the firebox full of wood and do a 10 hour burn. I would get up in the morning and there would still be unburned wood in the stove. The glass would be all covered with a thick creosote or maybe it was just soot.

Now, I can only put two or three logs (as opposed to 9 or 10 years ago) and shut the air down and when I get up, it has burned all the wood. Only ash is left and maybe a few embers. If I load it up, it burns way too hot and there is no way to control the burn.

Gasket is tight-no air leaks there. Did the dollar bill all the way around. Can't budge the dollar bill and it does not suck incense. So the door is tight.

Years ago someone told me that's just how all stoves are. They all eventually leak. I don't really understand why this would b true. What's so hard about sealing a 1/4" steel box? Do all stoves leak? Does anyone have a stove that's been in use 20 years or so and it's still tight?

Here's some specifics:
1.) I dry hardwoods in a covered rack for 3 years before they get burned.
2.) Fireplace is 100% masonry all the way up.
3.) 6 inch liner sits inside the old 8 inch majestic flue
4.) 28 foot chimney-draft is excellent.

Reading this, I am wondering whether your insert is finally operating as it should be. I say that because:
- I don't have dirty glass in the morning,
- my insert throws a lot of heat,
- three logs would never last me through the night,
- and I never have unburnt wood in my stove the next morning.

Has your wood always been split and stacked for three years before burning? Do you have a stove thermometer to see if it really runs "too hot"?

Modern (secondary burn) stoves/inserts inject pre-heated air into the top of the firebox to burn up all the volatile gases and unburnt particles coming from the wood. They do that to reduce smoke emissions which contributes to respiratory diseases and air pollution, to increase the efficiency of the stove from 40% of old-style "smokedragons" to 75%, and to reduce the risk of creosote accumulation in the chimney that can lead to a chimney fire. With closing the air control I see secondary flames in the top of firebox which tells me I burn efficiently and cleanly. My insert often reaches 700 F on the top without ill effects and heats my home nicely.

 

[fitter9]

i have a lopi freedom insert and the bypass doesn't add air to the stove, it just lets it flow from the air inlets directly up the chimney bypassing the the baffles. if i leave the bypass open and my air open for to long i can incinerate 3 cu ft of dry oak in an hour or so. NOT GOOD!!
the air control on my lopi insert is fully open if pushed all the way in(full air flow) maybe yours is different.

 

[nola mike]

My understanding is that the bypass indirectly controls airflow by restricting flow on the backend when engaged, which reduces draft and so also reduces flow through the primary air vents...

 

[begreen]

It doesn't restrict the flow. It redirects the flow around the baffle.