I'll admit that I'm young and inexperienced when it comes to wood stoves. I've done hours of research the last few weeks and have come down to two stoves. I am looking at either the Lopi Liberty or the Jotul Firelight. My house right now is a 1,400 sq. ft. ranch and the stove will be in the basement. We are building a new house in around 3 years and will move the stove to a finished basement in that location and would like to heat as much of that 2,380 sq. ft. two story as possible. I've done enough reading to realize that there is an ongoing debate between steel and cast iron. I was leaning towards the Jotul Firelight until yesterday when I read about the annual possibility of re-cementing a cast iron stove. I really liked the specs on the firelight along with the looks, but didn't know if this possible downfall of cast iron stoves should be enough to drive me to steel. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated...along with other recommendations for stoves that might suite me better.
Liberty or Firelight?
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I don't think you would need to cement a cast iron stove annually . . . but even if you did working the cement into the joints is a pretty easy affair unless you're talking about a major rebuild.
Noob said:
This will be our first winter with the Liberty, we have ours in the basement which is finished off, we have used it when it drops in to the 30's and love it. We never looked at another type of wood stove since my father in-law had a smaller Lopi at camp.
Zap
Jotul has been using a new type of cement. I can't say how long it will stand up, but it seems like tough, ceramic-like, stuff. A good cast stove shouldn't need a complete recementing more than once a decade, if that. Also, some cast stoves are gasketed instead of cemented.
In reading the chimneysweep's site he makes reference to the cast iron stoves needing to be rebuilt, rebuilt meaning take it all the way apart into little pieces, every 3 years. This little tid bit is apparently in the fine print in the owner's manual and is a huge huge problem for regular people. I would not buy a stove that required frequent rebuilds though I love the looks of cast iron. Sooooo, compromise and buy one of the welded steel stoves which is clad in cast iron. Best of both worlds.
PE's alderlea line, some quadrafires, and I think even some Lopi's are built that way.
You're shoving this thing in the basement so do looks really matter?
PE's alderlea line, some quadrafires, and I think even some Lopi's are built that way.
You're shoving this thing in the basement so do looks really matter?
fossil said:
Yep, I have steel in the living room and cast hidden in the corner of the basement. :coolsmirk:
the jotul is easier to load the big 24" stick into vs the liberty, but the better blower option for the liberty (and the bypass damper) make me say, go for the steel stove all day in this scenario.... unless looks are gonna be a factor.. you will not be dissapointed w/ either, however.... either one will operate for the same amount of time without any other maintinece other than cleaning and door gaskets... the baffle angle irons in the liberty will need replacing in @ 7 yrs, and the air manifold in the jotul will need recementing at that point as well... its a wash there....
If you want your wife to help you with it, to learn to build and tend the fires, whatnot...fergit about 24" splits anyway (they'll just barely fit in a cold Liberty...trying to wrestle one into a burning stove would just be plain stupid). 16"-18" E-W work just fine in the Liberty. Rick
Highbeam said:
I'll have to ask Tom about that one, can you provide a link? It's not been my experience. Our old Resolute was 6 years old when we sold it and was tight and solid. Our Jotul 602 finally got a rebuild after about 15 yrs of service. True it needed it, but mostly because of letting the interior burn plates go too long without replacement. Corner air seam leaks were not a problem.
It's in his overfire section of articles. I believe the specific examples were with VC stoves but he spoke in general. One of the reasons I went with soapstone was that I would NOT have to rebuild it on some sort of schedule. That's just silly.
Newer VC models with refractory innards may be an exception. I was concerned he was talking about the Hearthstone cast iron stoves he sells. Any stove that has to be rebuilt every few years is not worth the metal or stones used to build it.
summit said:
Thanks for the great advice. Sounds like steel is the way to go to not only heat more quickly, but also without the possibility of rebuilding maintenance. Does the blower on the Liberty come standard? Also, I really do like the side loading feature of the Firelight. Does anyone know of a high quality steel stove that has a nice side loading door in addition to a large glass front door?
Highbeam said:
Sounds like good advice from the standpoint of the person who is being paid to do all this rebuilding.
We used a VC Defiant Encore for 23 seasons, firing it quite hard, quite often. I had it disassembled and rebuilt after 10 years, but mostly it was because the refractory that formed the secondary chamber was in bad shape, and I figured a seam re-seal might not be a bad idea. After another 13 seasons, it was in need of another refractory rebuild, but I can tell you that there were absolutely no leaks in the seams anywhere. How do I know? When we got backpuffing (made worse by the crumbling refractory in the rear chamber), smoke puffed out the top griddle (held by gravity only) and a tiny bit past one corner of one of the front doors, but nothing out any seams.
So, based on that experience with a single stove, I'd predict that 10 years would be a good interval for rebuilds, and maybe longer if you just wait until you have evidence of leaks.
Naturally, everyone's mileage may vary, but annual or even every 3 years seems way too conservative. Sounds like changing your oil every 1000 miles, just in case.
Yeah I can't see rebuilding a cast stove more often that every ten years. Heck you take the chance of introducing problems you didn't even have.
Noob said:
blower is gonna run you about $232 (there is currently a factory promo for a free blower with participating dealers..)... and well worth every penny for the extra output/ efficiency you will get... i do not know of any steel side load stoves that would meet your criteria, however...
grommal said:
Yeah, I thought every couple of years for a re-build sounded excessive as well. Sounds like every 10 years might be expected. Looking at steel stoves, is there any major maintenance that I should consider in this purchase similar to that of cast iron stoves?
From the opinions above, it sounds like either stove is going to be a quality purchase. I haven't seen too many people that went with the Firelight or Liberty. Instead, most seem to have gone with either the Oslo or Endeavor. Just curious why you decided to go with a smaller stove?
I went with the Oslo because it is larger than my previous VC, with greater heat output, and the old VC was adequate, though just barely. Seemed like going up one notch was the right answer. My wife also wasn't thrilled with the way the Firelight doors opened with a tool, rather than a simpler handle.
We also have some tight dimensions, especially vertically. for some reason, the fine bricklayer that made the chimney put the thimble low enough that very few stoves will work. In fact, I considered a steel stove myself, but none of the steel stoves sold in my area (lots) could work without punching a new thimble higher up, and I didn't want to get into that. As it was, the Oslo could just barely fit using the top exit directly into a 90 elbow that ends up only a half inch below thimble center. Yeah, I know I could have cut off legs on other stoves, or bought short leg kits for some, but I wasn't too fond of those solutions, either.
We also have some tight dimensions, especially vertically. for some reason, the fine bricklayer that made the chimney put the thimble low enough that very few stoves will work. In fact, I considered a steel stove myself, but none of the steel stoves sold in my area (lots) could work without punching a new thimble higher up, and I didn't want to get into that. As it was, the Oslo could just barely fit using the top exit directly into a 90 elbow that ends up only a half inch below thimble center. Yeah, I know I could have cut off legs on other stoves, or bought short leg kits for some, but I wasn't too fond of those solutions, either.
Noob said:
steel stoves will need a baffle part or two every so often, some firebrick maybe, but all is relatively cheap and easy to obtain, or in worst case, fabricate. (cast iron parts, not so much).. between jotul and lopi, though, i think you are looking at similar lengths of time between any kind of maintainence other than door gasket replacement and yearly cleanings. both are way more solid than their respective competitors.
I'll second the solid construction comment about the Jotul. Our Oslo is built like a tank, is very simple in design, and looks like it will have very low maintenance. This is one of the reasons we selected it. I can't speak for the longevity, since we only have a half dozen burns on ours the past March and April, but other than gaskets and the hard ceramic baffle board, I can't see anything that would require replacement very often. There is some firebrick, but it appears to be standard stuff in standard size rectangles. The baffle board seems sturdy enough, and I don't think there will be a problem with inadvertently bashing it with splits, so I'm hoping to get many years out of a baffle.summit said:
As for cast iron parts, on our old VC, which had much thinner castings, we had only replaced one cast iron part in 23 years. The back plate of the firebox was replaced at 10 years because of erosion near the cat chamber entrance (a super hot, brightly glowing spot at times), but was still on one piece. The replacement piece was in the same eroded condition when we retired the stove. The Oslo has no design reason to have such a hot spot, so unless there's a major casting defect, I don't expect to need to replace any castings on the Jotul for the life of the stove.
Noob said:
The answer to this is easy for me . . . I figured out my square footage and then went with the stove rated one size larger than what I thought I needed . . . while I am a proponent of the "go bigger rather than smaller" thought when it comes to woodstoves there is such a thing as buying too large a stove for your needs.
Larger stoves sometimes also means more loss space due to the size of the stove, increased clearances and the chance of being driven out of your house by too much heat plus larger stoves are more expensive typically . . . in my case, I figured the minimum size I could get by with in the Jotul line up was the Castine and so I went with the next size up . . . and quite honestly it has met and exceeded my needs -- keeps the house plenty warm, rarely is taxed to the max and at the same time I am not experiencing blistering heat (well except for that first time I fired it up and kept adding well seasoned sugar maple to the firebox every 3 hours when the temps dipped down into the 40s -- the first and last time I made that mistake.
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I just did the yearly maintenance on the Liberty which sits in the kitchen.
It consisted of running a brush down the flue to clean out all of last years accumulations, cleaning most of the ash out of the firebox which was crusty after doing a good job soaking up moisture all summer, vacuuming out the two inlets of the blower, and my favorite part, polishing.
I can't walk through the kitchen now without stopping to admire it. I'm in the mood.
I'm not happy with most products I buy nowadays but this stove is great and it was built right so there is no having to rebuild. ;-)
P.S. - The blower makes it three times the stove.
It consisted of running a brush down the flue to clean out all of last years accumulations, cleaning most of the ash out of the firebox which was crusty after doing a good job soaking up moisture all summer, vacuuming out the two inlets of the blower, and my favorite part, polishing.
I can't walk through the kitchen now without stopping to admire it. I'm in the mood.
I'm not happy with most products I buy nowadays but this stove is great and it was built right so there is no having to rebuild. ;-)
P.S. - The blower makes it three times the stove.
I really appreciate everyone's help. After reading all of the responses I think I'm going to go with the Lopi Liberty. I think it will suite the size needs of our new house and should last a long time with the usual maintenance. Also, our local dealer is having a sale the first week of October with reduced prices/incentives. Thanks again for the help!
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