Loading small fireboxes

[undrtow]

Forgive me if this has already been asked, but I have a PE vista, which has a relatively small firebox. I'm just curious about how people load this or similar sized fireboxes with wood. It can only really accept wood E-W as it is too short N-S. I'm having trouble loading it full and getting a really hot fire. Of course the problem could always be quality of the wood... What cruising temps are you guys typically achieving with these Vistas?

Also, do most people usually load the firebox relatively full or do you ever just burn one round or split at a time if the room is at a comfortable temp? I've been doing that but I'm not sure how efficient that is as the wood sometimes struggles to stay burning.

Any insight would be great, thanks in advance.

 

[blacktail]

My insert is also small. I cut some of my wood about 13" long so I can load it NS.
I don't always load it full. It depends on timing. If I'm not going to bed for a couple of hours, I'll only ad enough wood to keep it going until my last reload of the night. Then, I can pack full before bed. For example, I loaded three hemlock splits at 11pm. Now it's 1am and I just fed the stove a full load of 13" Fir. I'm going to bed once it's settled in.

 

[FionaD]

Hi undrtow..

My stove is about 1 cubic ft... I can get reliable overnight burns if I put in 2 log briquettes (the ones I use are 'log-shaped' and about 12 long x 4" dia) at the back, then normal splits on top of them and in the front of the box. Not sure how I stumbled upon this combination, but it seems to really hold in the heat.

I believe that N/S loads burn hotter but faster. I would need 9" splits to load N/S!

One thing I am pretty certain of is that you need at least two splits in stove for it to burn properly.. I belive that if you have only one split / log in the box there is insufficient turbulence to bring about a proper burn.

There is a whole thread somewhere on this forum about tips for loading small stoves ... Sorry I was unable to locate it for you. Maybe someone else could...

 

[Kevin Dolan]

Forgive me if this has already been asked, but I have a PE vista, which has a relatively small firebox. I'm just curious about how people load this or similar sized fireboxes with wood. It can only really accept wood E-W as it is too short N-S. I'm having trouble loading it full and getting a really hot fire. Of course the problem could always be quality of the wood... What cruising temps are you guys typically achieving with these Vistas?

Also, do most people usually load the firebox relatively full or do you ever just burn one round or split at a time if the room is at a comfortable temp? I've been doing that but I'm not sure how efficient that is as the wood sometimes struggles to stay burning.

Any insight would be great, thanks in advance.

Undrtw I have a jotul 400 which has a firebox of around 1.7 cu ft and I believe yours is around 1.5 cu ft so close in size. I load always ew and to get it full for a long burn I have tried various different things. The first is to ensure your wood is less than 20% moisture or you will struggle especially with a small firebox. I got my new epa stove after burning an old steel box for 20 years, they are two different animals, the old one could burn just about any moisture wood but the new one needs dry. I first started burning logs 12-15 inches left over from the old stove. I could play around and pack the nooks a crannies to get a stuffed firebox that would give me burn time of between 5-7 hours and sometimes longer but not much. I then thought to cut logs into 18-20 inches to fill the box and I now have three years worth of logs 18-20 inches. What I am finding is that I can only really get three of these splits in at a time, 6-8 inch diameter, more if smaller but it is a real puzzle to fit them in. I also have no nooks and crannies to stuff with smaller bits. So I am going to chainsaw a bunch into smaller pieces to allow me to stuff again. A lot of work but I enjoy it.
My normal cruising temp starts out around 500-550 then gradually goes down in the burn cycle to around 250-300 before I reload which is typically anywhere from 4-8 hours depending on day or night. I also would never just put on one split as it has nothing else to feed on and may just smoulder. With these types of stoves you have to burn in cycles and not try to feed like the old stoves.
The learning experience is fun and this forum has been a great help to me. If you search for loading small fire boxes you should find more info.

 

[PAJerry]

I also have a Vista insert and have been using it to heat our house since 2006. The small firebox can be a challenge but I have been using slab wood cut to no more than 17" long with great success. The first year I tried using cord wood but had the same problem getting a good burn and enough heat. Slab wood is cheaper, dries extremely well in 5 months when stacked, and I'm able to maintain a good 400 to 500 stove temp. The burn time is less than cord wood, usually 2 - 3 hours, but I'm retired and it's not an issue. Oh yeah - I do not damper the stove down to get a longer burn. By leaving the air wide open, I get good burns, always clean glass, and when I had the chimney cleaned last year, the fella told me to call him again in 6 or 7 years since there was nothing built up in the liner. Vista is a great little stove but probably not as forgiving of poor wood quality as a big stove can be.

 

[ewlsey]

My Avalon is 1.3 ft. It's about the smallest insert out there.

I split my wood pretty fine. Then it's like a jigsaw puzzle to get the best fill. I pack it to the gills. I can get 6-8 splits in mine. That will leave good coals after 8 hours.

 

[undrtow]

Thanks for the input guys. I really do need to get a moisture meter and I think I may need to cut some of my splits smaller. I may be expecting my kindling to do too much. I think I'll stop just burning 1-2 splits at a time as well and it doesn't seem to be the way these EPA stoves are meant to be used. Is there any concern with burning untreated 2x4's? I assume they are ok, and I have tons of scraps. I could cut those short to use NS as I stack my splits EW.

 

[ewlsey]

I'm not sure how you get any heat out of your stove with the air turned all the way up. Mine won't get above 250 until I start to close down.

 

[saskwoodburner]

I'm not sure how you get any heat out of your stove with the air turned all the way up. Mine won't get above 250 until I start to close down.

Might as well cut two pieces of wood and throw one away if a guy is gonna burn with the air wide open.

 

[Kevin Dolan]

Thanks for the input guys. I really do need to get a moisture meter and I think I may need to cut some of my splits smaller. I may be expecting my kindling to do too much. I think I'll stop just burning 1-2 splits at a time as well and it doesn't seem to be the way these EPA stoves are meant to be used. Is there any concern with burning untreated 2x4's? I assume they are ok, and I have tons of scraps. I could cut those short to use NS as I stack my splits EW.

Untreated 2by 4s should be fine but they will burn fast and not last long. I would use them for kindling split and maybe fillers

 

[Kevin Dolan]

I also have a Vista insert and have been using it to heat our house since 2006. The small firebox can be a challenge but I have been using slab wood cut to no more than 17" long with great success. The first year I tried using cord wood but had the same problem getting a good burn and enough heat. Slab wood is cheaper, dries extremely well in 5 months when stacked, and I'm able to maintain a good 400 to 500 stove temp. The burn time is less than cord wood, usually 2 - 3 hours, but I'm retired and it's not an issue. Oh yeah - I do not damper the stove down to get a longer burn. By leaving the air wide open, I get good burns, always clean glass, and when I had the chimney cleaned last year, the fella told me to call him again in 6 or 7 years since there was nothing built up in the liner. Vista is a great little stove but probably not as forgiving of poor wood quality as a big stove can be.

Jerry how do you get that slab wood dry? I have bought a few loads in the past and found it dirty and really wet but cheap. Glad it works for you.

 

[Woody Stover]

need to get a moisture meter and I think I may need to cut some of my splits smaller. I may be expecting my kindling to do too much. I think I'll stop just burning 1-2 splits at a time as well and it doesn't seem to be the way these EPA stoves are meant to be used. Is there any concern with burning untreated 2x4's? I assume they are ok, and I have tons of scraps. I could cut those short to use NS as I stack my splits EW.

What kind of wood are you burning? Some smaller splits are handy to fill in voids in small loads. The meter is handy at first to let you know where you stand. Once you are ahead by a couple years you don't need it as often but it's still handy. One problem with wet wood is that you may have to leave the air open more to get it to burn hot, but then a lot of heat goes up the stack. Yes, burning in batches is the way to go. Every time you open the stove door to throw just a couple splits in, you break the cycle, let heat out of the stove and then have to burn with more air to get those couple splits burning. Sure, you can burn those Pine scraps but I wouldn't load the box full or she may really take off and temps can get out of hand. My stoves are small but burn slow and low with the cat combustors, so it's a different ball game than with your stove. They are E-W burners with side doors and andirons, so I can pack 'em pretty full.

I'm not sure how you get any heat out of your stove with the air turned all the way up. Mine won't get above 250 until I start to close down.

Same here; All the heat goes up the flue. With a cat stove, I have to run it kinda low anyway if I want a clean burn.

 

[DBoon]

I have a Lopi Answer with a small firebox. For high heat production and/or long overnight burns, I use four squared-off splits. I stack two of them in the back and two of them in the front, leaving a little space in the middle for small kindling, and maybe a smaller flat piece on top of the two-split stacks in back or front. Loading the stove for a long burn is like putting a jigsaw puzzle together - I'll assemble the splits outside the stove first so I know what to expect once I start loading. I'll reliably be able to re-light from coals after 10 hours when I load the stove like this.

 

[dafattkidd]

Here is a thread I started a few years ago when I was burning in a 1.7 cf Napoleon 1101 insert. I believe this is the thread Fiona was referring to. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/tips-for-small-fire-boxes.57987/#post-57987

My conclusion is in posts #47 and #48. I attached a screen shot of those posts. This is what worked for me with my set up. I hope that's helpful.

 

[PAJerry]

I have a very good supplier of cut slab wood. Most of it is 14 to 16 in. long and pretty clean. Amish sawmills here have slab processing and do a good job. Price right now is about $120 a cord vs. $200 for cord wood.
As far as burning with the damper wide open, I can easily maintain 500 degrees stove temp and only use 4 cords to heat our 1300 sq. ft. house - and it gets pretty cold here in the Lake Erie snowbelt. Maybe the fact that my combustion air is drawn up from the basement makes a difference. Every stove and installation is different but this has worked very well for us for many years.

 

[fredarm]

I start my Vista Insert with 2 Ecobricks from Tractor Supply front to back on the bottom, with 2 or 3 small splits sideways on top of those and some kindling and a 1/4 of a Supercedar on top. When I reload I put 3 to 4 splits in (I split fairly small). I never load just one split and only add 2 if they are large. However, since I don't try for overnight burns I don't try to pack the the firebox full, either.