Log Holder For Hearth

[stick burner]

Well, I just got back from the trip to Albuquerque... had an 18 wheeler nearly take off my side mirror on I 40 at 75 mph, dodged 1 antelope and 2 Wiley coyoties, etc., on the way back to Carlsbad. Soooo, I'm not all here right now....think the vodka and grapefruit juice drink the wife made me will calm me down a bit. Anyway, I posted a few minutes ago and forgot to put in a "title". Guess it didn't go, so I will repeat the question.

Stove is installed, now I need a good top notch "log holder" to set on the hearth next to the insert! There are so many out there, I could look till Christmas. What do you all suggest is a a good one to buy? Got to go and fry up some shrimp, cat fish, home fries and hush-puppies. Will check back with you later. Life is good...don't read this post, Bro. Bart & Gooserider, sorry you can't have supper with me.

Ol' Stickburner

 

[BrotherBart]

Well that certainly ruined the grilled cheese sandwich I was chewing on.

 

[elkimmeg]

the heaRTH DID NOT LOOK BIG ENOUGH FOR 3' CLEARANCE TO THE STOVE

 

[stick burner]

the heaRTH DID NOT LOOK BIG ENOUGH FOR 3' CLEARANCE TO THE STOVE

ELk,
The pictures are kinda misleading. True, the stove nearly runs to the front of the hearth, but the entire floor in front of the hearth, and the entire room, as well as all the living area is ceramic tile. The hearth is actually a wrap around design. It runs in front of the fireplace, down each side of it, plus down each side of the walls all the way to each end of the room (about 19 ft.). Kinda like this -----------------[_____]-----------------. The hearth is about 2 1/4 ft. deep where it runs down the walls. Have no idea if I'm making any sense...hope so. Greatly appreciate you concern.

Stickburner

 

[jtp10181]

I think what Elk is saying is that you should not store wood in a log holder within 3' of the stove.

 

[elkimmeg]

Welcome I know your are new to the hearth: Concerning Wood stove inspections: I do two types the common one is to make sure it is installed correctly.

The second type is when thing went wrong. One always stick in my mind the older lady would season her wood placing it on the stove top.
I have no idea how long she used that practice. But one day she went out for errands and returned to havbing a lot of red trucks in her yard.

The short errand turned out to be longer than expected. The cause of the fire was very easy to determine. At times I have seen newspapers stacked under the stove

Reminder or word to the wise, make sure your smoke detectors are opperting properly, Do not forget carbon monoxide detectors and finallly have a few extinguishers in your home especially near the kitchen. Good luck with your stove and man I can imagine the cooking you were tlking about I think I put a few lba on just reading your post

 

[stick burner]

JTP
Now I understand....thanks for the reply.

Stickburner

 

[stick burner]

Welcome I know your are new to the hearth: Concerning Wood stove inspections: I do two types the common one is to make sure it is installed correctly.

The second type is when thing went wrong. One always stick in my mind the older lady would season her wood placing it on the stove top.
I have no idea how long she used that practice. But one day she went out for errands and returned to havbing a lot of red trucks in her yard.

The short errand turned out to be longer than expected. The cause of the fire was very easy to determine. At times I have seen newspapers stacked under the stove

Reminder or word to the wise, make sure your smoke detectors are opperting properly, Do not forget carbon monoxide detectors and finallly have a few extinguishers in your home especially near the kitchen. Good luck with your stove and man I can imagine the cooking you were tlking about I think I put a few lba on just reading your post

Elk,
Thanks for the wise advice. Think I'll try and start a "stove top cooking recipes collection" addition to the forum once winter sets in down here. That could be as late as November. Should be fun anyway. Maybe some of the members will enjoy it.

Ol' Stickburner

 

[nshif]

I think we should have a running thread on cooking with a wood stove, Perhaps even a room just for that ? Craig? I cook on my stove all the time, saves even more propane and smells oh so good.

 

[elkimmeg]

My wife actually uses the bread warmer attatchmentts for the purpose, to warm and riise the dough. we have simmered stews and speg sauces.

 

[stick burner]

Welcome I know your are new to the hearth: Concerning Wood stove inspections: I do two types the common one is to make sure it is installed correctly.

The second type is when thing went wrong. One always stick in my mind the older lady would season her wood placing it on the stove top.
I have no idea how long she used that practice. But one day she went out for errands and returned to havbing a lot of red trucks in her yard.

The short errand turned out to be longer than expected. The cause of the fire was very easy to determine. At times I have seen newspapers stacked under the stove

Reminder or word to the wise, make sure your smoke detectors are opperting properly, Do not forget carbon monoxide detectors and finallly have a few extinguishers in your home especially near the kitchen. Good luck with your stove and man I can imagine the cooking you were tlking about I think I put a few lba on just reading your post

Elk,
Thanks for the wise advice. Think I'll try and start a "stove top cooking recipes collection" addition to the forum once winter sets in down here. That could be as late as November. Should be fun anyway. Maybe some of the members will enjoy it.

Ol' Stickburner

Just read my post and didn't mean it to be as it appears. Figured I'd post some down home, comfort food recipes under the "General" Forum as winter goes along. Certainly not trying to tell Craig, or anyone else what to do around here. I just love to cook and like sharing my recipes with other folks interested in cooking. Nothing keeps a family together better than a good fire and a good dinner after a hard day in this ol' world. Well...maybe you can add a drink or two and a good dog to pet also.

Stickburner

 

[Gooserider]

To drag things back to the original topic of your post (not that I object to good food...) what is the function of the log holder going to be? Is it just supposed to sit in one place on the hearth while you use some other means to fill it with wood, or are you going to be using it to haul the wood in from your piles?

The two have somewhat different requirements. A stationary logholder mostly just needs to be something that goes with your decor, is reasonably strong, and holds "enough" firewood - enough being defined as how often you need to fill it, how fast you burn the wood etc. - note that most folks advise against bringing more than a day or two's worth of wood in at a time, more than that and any bugs that might be wintering over may start waking up and looking for new homes... Either way, you should have either two holders, or at least two sections so that you can "rotate your stock" and burn on a first in / first out basis.

If you will be using it as a "transport" as well as a holder, you are going to be constrained by how much wood you can comfortably move at a time, and while you still need strength, light weight also becomes an issue since any weight of the carrier will take away from your "payload" of burnable wood... There are two that I use presently. One is a "log sling" which is a strip of heavy canvas type material with a handle on each end - put the logs on the canvas and carry it by the handles to make a bundle. It will hold about as much as you can carry. It usually comes with a "U" shaped frame that the sling sets into to make a basket. It works pretty well and is reasonably good looking and low cost. I would reccomend getting two of the frames, one for by the hearth, and one out by the stacks as I found that having a basket shape helped get it set up for carrying better. I found I was able to bring in about 3/4 of a days supply with it.

Another approach is a firewood cart that I got from Harbor Freight - if you pick the right catalog you can get it for about $40. It has a U shaped frame that rolls on two 20" bicycle wheels, and holds 2-3 times as much wood as the sling. The wheels are big enough that it is relatively easy to get the cart up stairs, even when fully loaded. Since you are rolling rather than carrying the wood, it's MUCH less effort and you get more wood. I've been very happy with the cart, and currently my system is to use the cart for most of my wood transport. I use the sling in it's holder to carry the "leftover" wood that is still on the cart when I'm ready to get a new load. With the cart, I find I get a bit over a day and a half worth of wood per trip, depending on how much I burn. The downside of the cart is it's a bit on the ugly side, and it takes up a good bit of room.

Gooserider

 

[stick burner]

Gooserider,
Thanks! Your suggestions are exactly what I"m looking for to handle the logs. That firewood cart on wheels may not be a thing of beauty, but I think it will start to look might purty after a few runs to the wood pile. I really like that a lot! Esepcially the 20" wheels. Seems mighty handy. Will order the canvas type log holder and the cart on wheels tomorrow morning. Having a little family birthday party for the wife this evening. Gonna build a nice bed of hot coals with lump charcoal and grill some rib-eye steaks with crab claws. Again, thanks

Stickburner

 

[Harley]

Gooserider,
Thanks! Your suggestions are exactly what I"m looking for to handle the logs. Gonna build a nice bed of hot coals with lump charcoal and grill some rib-eye steaks with crab claws. Again, thanks

Stickburner

Sorry, Goose for going off topic again, but maybe for the next gathering Stick could arrange a drop shipment of some of his samplings (not that I have any problem at all with the turkey or mead). :cheese:

 

[Gooserider]

Gooserider,
Thanks! Your suggestions are exactly what I"m looking for to handle the logs. That firewood cart on wheels may not be a thing of beauty, but I think it will start to look might purty after a few runs to the wood pile. I really like that a lot! Esepcially the 20" wheels. Seems mighty handy. Will order the canvas type log holder and the cart on wheels tomorrow morning. Having a little family birthday party for the wife this evening. Gonna build a nice bed of hot coals with lump charcoal and grill some rib-eye steaks with crab claws. Again, thanks

Stickburner

Sounds Yummy...

One minor note on the cart - it comes w/ Asian tires and tubes, and it seems like those folks don't know much about making good rubber products. After about a year's useage, and finding the tubes were chronically going soft, I blew out both tubes w/o apparent provocation - when I broke them down, I found that the "rim protector strips" had disintegrated, and the spoke heads had chewed holes in the tubes. There were also a few burrs on the spoke heads. I cleaned them up a bit with a hunk of emery cloth, then wrapped the spoke area of the rims in 3-4 layers of friction tape (something I learned long ago from a bike shop - works better and costs less than any rim strip...) and put in new heavy duty "thorn proof" tubes from the local pedal bike shop. Not a big deal, but might be worth doing ahead of time, certainly I'd reccomend purchasing a pair of replacement tubes early on. (The tires are fine, but I did find that it was best to run them much harder than reccomended, lowers the rolling resistance considerably)

Gooserider

 

[TruePatriot]

Gooserider,

Is is the one you got?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44599

I saw that in Lehman's Nonelectric, but I think it was even more money. It caught my eye, and was my second choice.


Is this one more substantial? (broken link removed)
It’s more money at $119.—but it has hard rubber tires—I’m thinking that’s a plus?


THIS was what I was thinking about-a conventional wheel barrow, with a part-time rear axle, and it would then hold the wood, inside the house: (broken link removed to http://www.prestar.com.my/product/wheelb/image/push_barrow.pdf)
(The site had to be loaded a few times before it worked—keep at it).

The advantages to me were that my ramp up the porch steps (all of three steps) could be a single board, which would be lighter and easier to wrangle, especially on snowy nights.

I thought the rear axle would be handy, to prevent the tipovers I sometimes have when chucking wood into a normal wheel barrow.

What are your thoughts on such a “push barrow?”

Lastly, considered a wagon like this: http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=249436-52314-TC4218&lpage=none

These are only $60. at Lowes, (some have wire mesh sides instead of wood) but such a wagon would require a wider, heavier ramp, obviously. Since I’m not considering a permanent ramp (no room) I need to be able to move it easily.

Has anyone used either a wagon or a “push barrow?”

Peter

 

[Gooserider]

Gooserider,

Is is the one you got?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44599
I saw that in Lehman's Nonelectric, but I think it was even more money. It caught my eye, and was my second choice.

Looks like from the picture. I didn't check part numbers, but I don't think its different.

Is this one more substantial? (broken link removed)
It’s more money at $119.—but it has hard rubber tires—I’m thinking that’s a plus?

Well the only real differences I see are the tires and being chrome plated instead of black powder coated - In addition the HF cart has a higher listed weight limit, though I wouldn't consider that real critical since I don't know how either outfit tests their carts. I don't think the tires are a big issue, especially once you put in GOOD tubes instead of the crappy HF tubes. Argueably the pneumatic tires are better at going over bumps, and are replaceable. I certainly wouldn't pay extra for the hard rubber tires.

THIS was what I was thinking about-a conventional wheel barrow, with a part-time rear axle, and it would then hold the wood, inside the house: (broken link removed to http://www.prestar.com.my/product/wheelb/image/push_barrow.pdf)
(The site had to be loaded a few times before it worked—keep at it).

The advantages to me were that my ramp up the porch steps (all of three steps) could be a single board, which would be lighter and easier to wrangle, especially on snowy nights.

I thought the rear axle would be handy, to prevent the tipovers I sometimes have when chucking wood into a normal wheel barrow.

What are your thoughts on such a “push barrow?”

I consider it very DANGEROUS to have a wheeled weight carrier above me on any sort of slope - if it gets away you are a pancake... uch: :cry: If you look at most instructions on moving things with carts you will see the same advice to always stay uphill from the load.

I don't use any sort of ramp with my firewood cart, I just bump it up the steps, just like one would an appliance dolly - lean the cart back, stand on a higher step and straighten your legs. As long as you keep a strain on the cart, it will stay on each step while you go up ahead of it. If it gets away from you, it just makes a mess with you NOT under it... (Counting in my head, I have a flight of 5-6 steps, a 90* turn on a landing, one step through the door to the laundry room, then another three steps up through the door to the living room) I actually think a ramp would make things HARDER since I wouldn't be able to stop part way up to change my stance.

While you could do something like that with the push-barrow, it would be awkward at best, difficult to drag up steps without a ramp, etc. I have moved wood with a regular type wheel barrow, and found that it was difficult to load efficiently since the tapered tub really didn't fit the shape of the wood. Wheel barrows were really intended for loose materials like dirt that can fit the shape of the tub.

Lastly, considered a wagon like this: http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=249436-52314-TC4218&lpage=none

These are only $60. at Lowes, (some have wire mesh sides instead of wood) but such a wagon would require a wider, heavier ramp, obviously. Since I’m not considering a permanent ramp (no room) I need to be able to move it easily.

Has anyone used either a wagon or a “push barrow?”
Peter

Wagons have the same problem as a wheelbarrow in terms of getting up stairs. I also suspect that both wagons and wheelbarrows have more "penalty weight" - i.e. the amount of weight you have to drag in and out that is NOT burnable... My HF cart probably weighs less than 20lbs, and it would be hard to get any more weight off it without weakening it or going to exotic materials. Another factor to consider is the width - the HF cart is 28" wide, which is about the maximum that you can easily get through a standard 32" doorway. You loose about 4" of width to the wheels, so in the area of the wheels you can only put wood that's less than about 22" long. (Another reason I'm glad to get rid of the smoke dragon...) if your wagon or wheelbarrow is wider, it will give you problems with doors.

I considered a bunch of different options before I got the cart, not quite the same ones, but along the same lines, and IMNSHO if you are going to roll your processed firewood, a cart like the HF unit is the best overall answer. If you have to move rounds, it's not as good, especially for big rounds - for that I use a two wheel dolly.

Gooserider

 

[TruePatriot]

Gooserider:

You raise some good points. And I didn't notice the higher capacity of the HF cart until I checked the links tonight, right b/f I read your post--your HF cart carries 50 lbs. more for half the price! I liked the hard rubber tires but they don't seem worth another $50. to me....

With only three steps (two and a quarter step, actually) I'm less concerned about being below the load, but obviously, you raise a very real concern, just generally. If I had the multiple turns and greater number of steps you do, I'd have gone with your cart, no doubt. (I have just two concrete steps and a raised threshold, through a very large door, so other options present themselves).

HOWEVER, in terms of safety, I could foresee leaving the ramp out on the steps for days at a time (like, if it freezes down?) and getting injured by forgetting it's there, stepping on it when it's icy, etc (knock on wood three times) .... For my application, I think that's a MUCH more likely danger than that posed by my being below the weight carrier, since I only have 2 and 1/4 steps.)

But the ramp as a tripping hazard does bother me...enough that I think I'd be better served with a cart like yours that requires no ramp. And in the bargain, I get to be "upwind" of the weight, if it should get away from me, as you point out.

And I've pretty much ruled out the wagon b/c I think it would pull very hard through the snow, and up even a small ramp like I would have for that. And again, I don't want a ramp that wide as we don't have much of a "porch" and it would dominate a lot of the available space. I really don't want any ramp at all.

I was looking at bigger haulers simply because I don't want to make multiple trips if I don't have to. But I guess it's a small price to pay, for not having a ramp to navigate around.

Thanks for your input.

Peter

 

[elkimmeg]

Talk about making things more differcult than they have to be. If you have a wheel barrow use it I laod it up and leave it near a door.

at times I load two canvas carriers and load them When I know we might get hit by a storm I will load a few days worth on the back porch which has a roof.

I never bough anything special to load of haul wood around just canvas carriers.

One other hint: If you have room on your hearth, it is benificial to store a day or two worth of wood inside before using. It tends to dry it out a little better.

naturally clean bug free wood is best for inside storage

 

[Gooserider]

TP:
You raise some good points. And I didn’t notice the higher capacity of the HF cart until I checked the links tonight, right b/f I read your post--your HF cart carries 50 lbs. more for half the price! I liked the hard rubber tires but they don’t seem worth another $50. to me....

With only three steps (two and a quarter step, actually) I’m less concerned about being below the load, but obviously, you raise a very real concern, just generally. If I had the multiple turns and greater number of steps you do, I’d have gone with your cart, no doubt. (I have just two concrete steps and a raised threshold, through a very large door, so other options present themselves).

Actually I suspect that you would find anything more than a high threshold to be more of a challenge than you'd expect when pushing a wheelbarrow or other heavy load. I think there's a reason in addition to safety why every device I've ever seen for getting stuff up steps has been designed to be PULLED rather than pushed, and that is the way the our bodies are designed. We can exert more energy, more effectively, when pulling something up the stairs from in front, than we can pushing it from behind. I have a very slight slope (maybe 2-3 inches in 15 feet?) going from the woodshed to our driveway, and a 1/2" or so bump going from the dirt onto the pavement, and even that tiny bit is easier to get over when pulling rather than pushing.

I used to deliver respiratory therapy stuff to home care patients when I was younger, and it was not a big deal to drag 150 lb Oxy cylinders up a flight of steps, but it was done by pulling, not pushing...

HOWEVER, in terms of safety, I could foresee leaving the ramp out on the steps for days at a time (like, if it freezes down?) and getting injured by forgetting it’s there, stepping on it when it’s icy, etc (knock on wood three times) .... For my application, I think that’s a MUCH more likely danger than that posed by my being below the weight carrier, since I only have 2 and 1/4 steps.)

But the ramp as a tripping hazard does bother me...enough that I think I’d be better served with a cart like yours that requires no ramp. And in the bargain, I get to be “upwind” of the weight, if it should get away from me, as you point out.

The ramp as a tripping hazard is an issue, the other thing is how gentle a slope you need to be effective - look at the difference in length between a wheelchair ramp and the flight of steps serving the same door

And I’ve pretty much ruled out the wagon b/c I think it would pull very hard through the snow, and up even a small ramp like I would have for that. And again, I don’t want a ramp that wide as we don’t have much of a “porch” and it would dominate a lot of the available space. I really don’t want any ramp at all.

I was looking at bigger haulers simply because I don’t want to make multiple trips if I don’t have to. But I guess it’s a small price to pay, for not having a ramp to navigate around.

The log cart handles quite a bit of wood when loaded to capacity, more than a day's worth for my old smoke dragon, probably closer to a couple days for a more modern stove. I use the snowblower to clear a path to the woodshed after a storm, so I don't generally have more than an inch or so of snow to deal with, but I find the bicycle type tires do pretty well going through shallow snow. I suspect it would be more difficult if you had more than three or four inches however, as the logs themselves would be dragging which would give a lot of resistance.

Elk:
Talk about making things more differcult than they have to be. If you have a wheel barrow use it I laod it up and leave it near a door. at times I load two canvas carriers and load them When I know we might get hit by a storm I will load a few days worth on the back porch which has a roof. I never bough anything special to load of haul wood around just canvas carriers. One other hint: If you have room on your hearth, it is benificial to store a day or two worth of wood inside before using. It tends to dry it out a little better. naturally clean bug free wood is best for inside storage

I find the log hauler to be easier than the canvas slings - having tried both, my sling now serves as a stationary holder near the stove. The log holder lets me get a day or so's worth inside at a time, and I will stock up a bit if I think we are going to get clobbered. A lot depends on the way your stacks and your house is laid out as to which would be easier, however I would say that one trip with the log hauler for me gives about the same amount of wood as two-three trips with the sling, and IMHO is less total work than ONE trip with the sling.

I'm basically only feeding one stove though (and would be more inclined to use a sling to feed the basement stove on the rare occasions it's used...) and so I can leave the splits on the hauler which reduces the amount of handling. BTW, I know that a lot depends on where you shop, but my log cart on sale from HF cost about the same as a sling and stand from a stove shop....

Gooserider

 

[TruePatriot]

Gooserider:

Re this:

Actually I suspect that you would find anything more than a high threshold to be more of a challenge than you’d expect when pushing a wheelbarrow or other heavy load. I think there’s a reason in addition to safety why every device I’ve ever seen for getting stuff up steps has been designed to be PULLED rather than pushed, and that is the way the our bodies are designed. We can exert more energy, more effectively, when pulling something up the stairs from in front, than we can pushing it from behind. I have a very slight slope (maybe 2-3 inches in 15 feet?) going from the woodshed to our driveway, and a 1/2” or so bump going from the dirt onto the pavement, and even that tiny bit is easier to get over when pulling rather than pushing.

I used to deliver respiratory therapy stuff to home care patients when I was younger, and it was not a big deal to drag 150 lb Oxy cylinders up a flight of steps, but it was done by pulling, not pushing…

I know you're correct--we can pull much more than we can push (if we can get a secure stance, as we can on stairs) and I believe that is because we can lift more than our own weight. Also, when pushing, we're often limited by the traction under the feet.

Having said that, I routinely run a heaping-full wheel barrow into my cottage, up north, on a single board laid down in the doorway. Admittedly, it's only one step high, but what I'm contemplating at home is only two steps high, then across a landing, and up 3", so I could use one long board or two ramps. So I do have some experience with wheel barrows going up hill. You're right, it's not easy--I have to take a little bit of a run at it, to get up the one step, and yes, two would be worse.

But you've sold me on the bicycle wheel cart--thanks!

Elk: Unfortunately, unlike you, I don't have a covered porch--if I left the barrow outside, it would get wet/snow, etc.... I gotta have something that wants to come inside easily. Consequently, I'm not "...making things more differcult than they have to be." Thanks for the curbside opinion, though.... :roll:

While we're on the topic you raised, however, and speaking strictly for myself, I actually view your wood sling as "...making things more difficult than they have to be"--no offense. I want to load wood just twice--once into the wheeled conveyence, (so that it's weight is on the planet's surface, and not on my back) and once into the stove. I will leave the additional, intermediary step of stuffing a sling full of wood, after I've just loaded the wheel barrow, and before I load it into the stove, to those disposed to such endeavors.

But I'll assume that, for your setup, with two stoves, loading it three times instead of two must somehow pay dividends for you. I won't assume that your house is just like mine...e.g., that we both have covered porches, or that we both have just one stove. Obviously, different setups will respond best to different solutions. ;-)