Longer Burn Time In Smaller Stove

[Todd]

I’ve been watching this guy in the UK reviewing different stoves over there. He claimed he can get an 11 hour burn with the new Jotul Eco 602 by this method.

I’m not sure if I buy it. I’ve always raked the coals forward and packed the wood in tight to create a front to back cigar burn. I could get 8 hours in my 602 this way.

 

[Todd]

 

[begreen]

I’ve been watching this guy in the UK reviewing different stoves over there. He claimed he can get an 11 hour burn with the new Jotul Eco 602 by this method.

I’m not sure if I buy it. I’ve always raked the coals forward and packed the wood in tight to create a front to back cigar burn. I could get 8 hours in my 602 this way.

Success is going to vary a lot with the draft strength and the stove, the fire wood, etc. If the stove is not an EPA stove it may close off the air a lot more completely and may not have boost air.

 

[Todd]

Yes lots of variable for sure. What struck me is his method of building up the coal bed for a longer burn. Most here try to avoid this to be able to stuff more wood into the fire box for a longer burn. He claims the larger coal bed gives off more heat, cleaner and longer burn. Are the European stoves less efficient and dirtier than our 2020 regs?

 

[Ashful]

If someone is actually able to get consistent 11 hour burn times out of a Jotul 602, then that's great for anyone who already owns a Jotul 602. But to anyone shopping for a stove and looking for long burn times, that stove would not be on my contenders list. There are much better options for achieving long burns in a small package.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

I wouldn’t want to babysit the stove every hour like the guy in the video is talking about.

 

[begreen]

Are the European stoves less efficient and dirtier than our 2020 regs?

Yes, due to different testing standards and requirements. And my understanding is that Great Britain has different rules and timetable from Europe. They have introduced these requirements much later than the EPA. Up to last year a stove with just a baffle and air wash could be sold there.

Ecodesign 2022 - HETAS

www.hetas.co.uk

New stove emissions regulation sets a minimum standard

From 1st January 2022, a new regulation will impose Ecodesign requirements for solid fuel local space heaters. Regulation (EU) 2015/1185 24/5/2015 describes the requirements which will harmonise en...

www.envirotech-online.com

In Europe, this is the Clean Heat policy.

Ecodesign 2022 - HETAS

www.hetas.co.uk

 

[Todd]

If someone is actually able to get consistent 11 hour burn times out of a Jotul 602, then that's great for anyone who already owns a Jotul 602. But to anyone shopping for a stove and looking for long burn times, that stove would not be on my contenders list. There are much better options for achieving long burns in a small package.

Such as?

 

[Todd]

I wouldn’t want to babysit the stove every hour like the guy in the video is talking about.

Exactly! I time and size my reload according to the weather and my daily schedules.

 

[begreen]

Such as?

Although they are enthusiastic, these videos are somewhat misleading. I have the original 602 and I can say that while it may be possible to have some hot coals for a restart after 6 hrs, it is not easy. After 8 hrs is would be damn hard. It has a firebox holding less than 1 cu ft of fuel so unless the coals are buried under a lot of ash for insulation, they will be exhausted by that time period. And for certain, the stove is giving off very little heat after 4 hrs.

 

[Ashful]

Such as?

I'd start with anything have a catalytic combustor, and then quickly narrow in on anything wearing a Blaze King badge, if hours of burn time per cubic foot of stove were the sole goal.

1. Non-cats really hit their stride in the 3 hour per cubic foot range. They can do 4 hours per cubic foot with an ideal setup, but that's sort of where most of them peter out.
2. By comparison, most cat stoves can stretch closer to 5-6 hours per cubic foot, even without thermostatic control. And with the aid of thermostatic control + cat, Blaze Kings successfully and repeatedly hit 10+ hours per cubic foot, all day every day.

These are hard facts, but not a demerit against non-cats, as there's more to heating a home than maximum burn time. It should be pointed out, for the ten-thousandth time on this forum, that a cubic foot of a given wood at given moisture content contains some fixed amount of BTU's. So, stretching the burn time does not give you "more" heat, it just spreads it's release rate out over a longer period. When working against the large capacitor that is your house, the effect of 700k BTU over 13 hours versus 700k BTU over 30 hours becomes somewhat less dramatic than if measuring these in a black box or outdoors.

 

[begreen]

Non-cats really hit their stride in the 3 hour per cubic foot range.

Tom Oyen tested every new stove model in his shop for a season. The handsdown winner for burn time remained the 2 cu ft PE Super. It beat the Summit and Alderlea T6 by an hour at 16 hrs.

 

[Todd]

Blaze kings are large stoves though. Maybe the Woodstock Survival or Hearthstone Lincoln can get 11-12 hours.

 

[BKVP]

Success is going to vary a lot with the draft strength and the stove, the fire wood, etc. If the stove is not an EPA stove it may close off the air a lot more completely and may not have boost air.

You noticed they said How Clean Is It?" and spoke about efficiency, so you may be correct that is not EPA approved.

 

[BKVP]

Yes lots of variable for sure. What struck me is his method of building up the coal bed for a longer burn. Most here try to avoid this to be able to stuff more wood into the fire box for a longer burn. He claims the larger coal bed gives off more heat, cleaner and longer burn. Are the European stoves less efficient and dirtier than our 2020 regs?

Absolutely! We have tested different "clean burning" European units and they are not clean burning like our USA 2020 models. Our being the industry! The test methods are very different than ours here. By comparison, we run them on a dilution tunnel and they do not get anywhere near as clean as North American stoves.

 

[Ashful]

Tom Oyen tested every new stove model in his shop for a season. The handsdown winner for burn time remained the 2 cu ft PE Super. It beat the Summit and Alderlea T6 by an hour at 16 hrs.

8 hours per cubic foot is excellent for a non-cat, but likewise we can find some even extraordinarily-longer times posted for cats. I was just quoting the numbers I most typically see posted here by users of each.

As noted, this alone isn’t any deciding factor in how well the thing will heat your home.

 

[Ashful]

Blaze kings are large stoves though. Maybe the Woodstock Survival or Hearthstone Lincoln can get 11-12 hours.

Compared to the 602, yes. The BK 20’s are quite small, and with clearances may give the 602 a run on total room space required, but the 602 is unique.

 

[Todd]

9-12 hour burn in the F100? They must have better alien technology than Blaze King. 🤣

I do like the fact that there is a separate control to shut down the boost air. That alone would help some with burn times.

 

[Highbeam]

Tom Oyen tested every new stove model in his shop for a season. The handsdown winner for burn time remained the 2 cu ft PE Super. It beat the Summit and Alderlea T6 by an hour at 16 hrs.

That was an old PE super before they changed the secondary combustion system to a vacuum operated device instead of the linkage that earned the super such a great reputation. I wonder how a modern pe super would do.

 

[bigealta]

That guy seems like a joker. 11 hr burn. Nope. Show us what's left at the 11 hr mark. 1 tiny ember buried on the very bottom maybe.

 

[begreen]

That was an old PE super before they changed the secondary combustion system to a vacuum operated device instead of the linkage that earned the super such a great reputation. I wonder how a modern pe super would do.

Yes, I have wondered that too. Unfortunately, we may never know now. I can say that the new Alderlea T6 LE performs very well in comparison to the original. I helped a neighbor install theirs and they are getting similar burn times as our stove. The T6 LE has the same EBT as the Super LE.

 

[begreen]

9-12 hour burn in the F100? They must have better alien technology than Blaze King. 🤣

I do like the fact that there is a separate control to shut down the boost air. That alone would help some with burn times.

Wishful thinking. That's sure not what Brother Bart reported with his F100. More like 2-4 hrs. I've only seen a couple of this guy's reviews but they seem more marketing than fact.
The F3CB also has a boost air vent control. I eventually stopped using it and left it closed because it is stiff and awkward to use on a hot stove door. With dry wood it was unnecessary for starting the fire.

 

[Highbeam]

Yes, I have wondered that too. Unfortunately, we may never know now. I can say that the new Alderlea T6 LE performs very well in comparison to the original. I helped a neighbor install theirs and they are getting similar burn times as our stove. The T6 LE has the same EBT as the Super LE.

Did the T6 (summit box) ever have mechanical secondaries? I thought it was always the vacuum style EBT. If so, no sense in comparing pre and post 2020 summit boxes. Reminds me of vacuum secondaries on a 4 barrel carburetor vs. mechanical.

I sure like the idea of a long burning durable noncat.

 

[Nate R]

What struck me is his method of building up the coal bed for a longer burn. Most here try to avoid this to be able to stuff more wood into the fire box for a longer burn. He claims the larger coal bed gives off more heat, cleaner and longer burn

OK, interesting.... I do this for sure in my F100...I'll try and avoid a huge coal buildup so I can stuff as much bold/fresh wood in as possible. I'll have to try this way this coming winter and not that way and compare.
In my place, I'm often trying to warm it up from unheated the first night, so I'm tending to it every hour anyway before bed..... and more BTUs longer that first night would be better.

 

[Ashful]

Wishful thinking. That's sure not what Brother Bart reported with his F100. More like 2-4 hrs.

Knowing that came from BB, how many cases of Natty Lite or Pabst Blue Ribbon did he claim it'd hold?