Looking at new wood furnaces!!!

[Northern farmer]

Hi everyone...new to the forum..just signed up after lots of reading. So I'm looking after my dad's house now, and it's time to upgrade the furnace. As of right now we are running the same oil burner that was in the house since 74. In thev80s my dad put in a wood furnace beside the oil burner and combined the 2. The oil furnace fan ran both furnaces. Since then the wood furnace has burnt out and oil is getting really expensive alone. I originally had been looking at Napoleans hybrid furnaces but it appears they are out of the game now. Seems like the caddy is a pretty good furnace. The house is 1200 sqft...could stand to be better insulated..only 2x4 walls...plain windows. My question is would this be a good way to go...or is it better to have to separate furnaces?

 

[yooperdave]

Welcome aboard.

Just a quick word of warning.......stand by for comments regarding the two appliances vented into the same stack! Rough seas ahead!

Too bad you're so far away, I've got a wood furnace for sale,,,,,great shape. (I'm upgrading)

 

[Northern farmer]

Welcome aboard.

Just a quick word of warning.......stand by for comments regarding the two appliances vented into the same stack! Rough seas ahead!

Too bad you're so far away, I've got a wood furnace for sale,,,,,great shape. (I'm upgrading)

Thanks. I will say right now.. there are a lot of things that were not done right .. some I know of... some I dont... I even just noticed the damper for the wood burner isnt there anymore...

 

[salecker]

Two in one was ok till they changed codes.
My boiler building has both wood and oil into one 8" chimmany. Was still legal when i built it 13 years ago,zero issues.

 

[Rockstar1346]

I have the drolet heat commander and it was world of difference for me compared to my old 90s wood stove it replaced. Nice even heat through the whole house and it manages the heat for you too, which was one of the reasons I got it because the gf never liked to manage the wood stove when I wasn’t home. But if money is no price I’d go with the kuuma it seems to be the best on the market.

 

[yooperdave]

Two in one was ok till they changed codes.
My boiler building has both wood and oil into one 8" chimmany. Was still legal when i built it 13 years ago,zero issues.

I agree completely. But there are those code book thumping members just waiting to pounce! 🤣

I also have (in the past) wood and gas furnace to common chimney; wood and oil furnace to common chimney. And again, with absolutely zero issues!

 

[Northern farmer]

I have the drolet heat commander and it was world of difference for me compared to my old 90s wood stove it replaced. Nice even heat through the whole house and it manages the heat for you too, which was one of the reasons I got it because the gf never liked to manage the wood stove when I wasn’t home. But if money is no price I’d go with the kuuma it seems to be the best on the market.

The old wood furnace could not regulate the temp very good I recall. If dad put one or 2 blocks to many it was so hot in the house you could barely stand it.. even shut down it was to much fire, and the fan had to run constantly until it died down to coals.

 

[Northern farmer]

Two in one was ok till they changed codes.
My boiler building has both wood and oil into one 8" chimmany. Was still legal when i built it 13 years ago,zero issues.

Whats different now? Is this one of the reasons Napolean quit making the hybird stoves?

 

[LogCabinFever]

It seems you are in a similar boat as I am.

I’ve done quite a bit of thinking and researching over the last year and this is my conclusion:

My current setup is an old propane furnace and old wood furnace connected in parallel. I’d like to update both while simplifying the setup and making more room. Little different than you but not much.

Several options for you.

Option 1: two separate furnaces. A wood furnace and backup oil/propane/heat pump furnace hooked up in series (I think parallel is not approved in Canada but not totally sure on that. Others will confirm this). This is probably the most efficient setup but also the most expensive and takes up the most room in the house. It’s your decision if you want to change the type of backup fuel. By code here in the States, I believe oil and wood cannot share the same flue. Wood and propane can.

Option 2: Single combination unit: Wood &oil/propane. This is probably slightly less efficient, but is by far cheaper and a better use of space. To my knowledge only one exists that is for sale new under current EPA regulations, the Wood Gun Super E210. However, it’s a boiler, not forced air. Supposedly, SBI is working on a combination unit with its Caddy Advanced CR (Combo Ready) due out later this year at the earliest. This unit combines wood with either electric, oil, or perhaps propane backup.

If you opt for Option 1, you have three choices: Kuuma Vapor Fire, Drolet Heat Commander, and Caddy Advanced. The Kuuma is the most proven because it has the longest track record, being out for the longest. However, all three are good. Then your back up furnace options are essentially endless.

If you opt for Option 2, you could switch your setup to a boiler, to accommodate the Wood Gun combo setup with a heat exchanger for your forced air system. Or wait it out and see if the Caddy comes through with its combo unit. Personally, I think Caddy has great potential and until I change my mind, that’s what I intend to do. But no one really knows if or when the Advanced CR is actually coming this year. This past year has been pretty rough on Canada.

Long answer but that’s my two cents.

 

[Northern farmer]

Since you say wood and oil can not share the same flue anymore... I think a wood and propane furnace might be the way to go...and since propane furnaces can be changed over to gas most times it makes more sense since gas is pretty cheap here still even now.....its the hook up cost thats high... around 10 grand. Im not sure if anyone makes a wood combo proane furnace ?

 

[hedge wood]

Another option if you go to LP or Natural is to install a 90 plus furnace and vent that with plastic pipe and use the other chimney for your wood furnace. I had to do just that for a guy that was selling a house a couple years ago that had a wood and propane furnace venting into the same chimney and wouldn't pass a home inspection to sell the house. We ended up updating the AC unit also so the new home owner will be set for years.

 

[LogCabinFever]

Since you say wood and oil can not share the same flue anymore... I think a wood and propane furnace might be the way to go...and since propane furnaces can be changed over to gas most times it makes more sense since gas is pretty cheap here still even now.....its the hook up cost thats high... around 10 grand. Im not sure if anyone makes a wood combo proane furnace ?

Only the Wood Gun like I said. But it’s a boiler. Otherwise it’s a waiting game for the Caddy Advanced CR.

 

[Northern farmer]

Well looks like I have a few months yet before next winter to decide what to do. Would venting a gas furnace be as easy as running pipe out the side of the house ?

 

[Wood1Dennis]

Would venting a gas furnace be as easy as running pipe out the side of the house ?

I think all modern high efficiency gas furnaces vent with plastic pipe. Mine vents out the side of the house through the basement sill. I have my Caddy downstream from a Rheem LP furnace. Like your old set-up the LP furnace fan is used to circulate the air through the Caddy. Two separate thermostats. The system works great and I am very happy with the Caddy furnace, this is my 6th season with it, 2016 vintage.

 

[woodey]

Would venting a gas furnace be as easy as running pipe out the side of the house ?

Yes, one for venting and another for intake.

 

[PreserveThe2nd]

Stumbled onto this older conversation. Building another structure so I need another wood furnace. My house has used a Charmaster for 20 years without a hitch. They are out of business even when their product was excellent. It was designed as a wood - gas/oil combination. In my case, our county has a dam with low priced electricity so I decided to install the electric coils myself.

I moved the blower back 5 inches, cut a hole in the side of the furnace and placed the coils in a frame I built, and installed the assembly, then hid it with a cover plate, and built a cover to cover the blower sticking out in the rear. I then installed a dual heat pump thermostat. Using a relay switch, 1st call is for wood heat and it opens the draft door. If the house temp. drops 2 more degrees, the 2nd call then is for the electric coils to activate. The blower runs with either heat source.

This system has worked great for20 years. I start a fire before heading to work (24 hour shift) knowing that the house is warm when I return the next day even after the firewood is gone. As for power failure, I have a back up generator so that keeps it secure. Even then, I have a propane wood stove (my most expensive fuel) as a 3rd backup source. I have 100 acres of timberland so a wood furnace is adequately fed.

Question: I see the Kuuma looks great. I have looked at the Royall's Energy King because it closely resembles the Charmaster I have used for so long and is around $5,500. No comments were made on it as maybe the next best after Kuuma. https://www.royallfurnace.com/

 

[PreserveThe2nd]

I forgot to mention, my Charmaster came with a stainless steel U shaped water tube inside the fire chamber that heats water in a water heater (not hooked up for electricity) w a circulation pump and a one way water valve in the path. The furnace heats the water and when my electric heater needs water it gets it preheated from wood furnace water heater. Electric heaters are one of the greatest electric consumers in a house.
Mark

 

[LogCabinFever]

Not familiar with the Royalls Energy King, but it’s not listed on the EPA wood heater database. Because of that, technically it’s not permitted for sale, and I doubt insurance companies would carry you with it. The site doesn’t really list anything other than claimed BTU output of three different models and some size specs. Personally, when spending that much money, I’d want to see test data.

I’d still say, stick with:
1. Kuuma Vaporfire
2. Caddy Advanced/Drolet Heat Commander

Apparently, there’s also another furnace that has been added as well called AirBilo Plus and it also qualifies for the tax credit for efficiency. I’ve never heard anything about it though. Seems Canadian?

 

[brenndatomu]

Question: I see the Kuuma looks great. I have looked at the Royall's Energy King because it closely resembles the Charmaster I have used for so long and is around $5,500. No comments were made on it as maybe the next best after Kuuma. https://www.royallfurnace.com/

Uh, no...not second best to the Kuuma, not even close...not sure how they are even selling these things anymore, they most definitely have not passed the EPA emissions test!
Ask @yooperdave how he likes his Kuuma after having an Energy King (similar model I think)

Because of that, technically it’s not permitted for sale, and I doubt insurance companies would carry you with it.

True.

Apparently, there’s also another furnace that has been added as well called AirBilo Plus and it also qualifies for the tax credit for efficiency. I’ve never heard anything about it though. Seems Canadian?

Hafta check that out...

 

[JRHAWK9]

Royall's are old school smoke dragons. I'm not even sure if they sell them anymore, and if they do, they are doing so illegally. They are actually made within walking distance of where I work (Reedsburg, WI).

Google Maps

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www.google.com

 

[PreserveThe2nd]

Thanks all for the feedback on the Energy King. Its what I was searching for as things have changed in the last 20 years.

 

[bholler]

Uh, no...not second best to the Kuuma, not even close...not sure how they are even selling these things anymore, they most definitely have not passed the EPA emissions test!
Ask @yooperdave how he likes his Kuuma after having an Energy King (similar model I think)

True.

Hafta check that out...

I'm not even sure they are ul listed. All they say is rated for ul391. Not listed or tested to.

 

[Wood1Dennis]

Funny thing, I had quotes from two sources when we built out house in 2016. One guy was trying to sell me an Energy King wood furnace. I went with the PSG Caddy because it was EPA listed, to the standard prior to the latest 2020 standard but it was current EPA at the time. I checked references, liked the easy to clean design of the Caddy and started to learn about the secondary burn features of the EPA designs. I also had a turn key installation quote for the furnaces, air, chimney, everything from one source.

In hindsight I am so happy I got that decision right or by now I would probably have been looking to upgrade.

 

[Wood1Dennis]

Royall's are old school smoke dragons. I'm not even sure if they sell them anymore, and if they do, they are doing so illegally. They are actually made within walking distance of where I work (Reedsburg, WI).

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

If you look in the descriptions of the furnaces they say wood or coal.
That is probably how they get around the EPA requirement!

 

[johneh]

Apparently, there’s also another furnace that has been added as well called AirBilo Plus and it also qualifies for the tax credit for efficiency. I’ve never heard anything about it though. Seems Canadian?

Built in Quebec Canada

AirBilo - Furnace by LS Bilodeau

Air Bilo hot air heating system. Wood-fired furnace or dual-fuel option, wood-pellets option, triple-fuel option.

www.lsbilodeau.com