Looking for feedback on Steel/Iron vs. Soapstone

[tsh2002]

Hello: We are new stove owners and started shopping for one recently for a new ranch build in Michigan (insulation is high and house is tight). We have two flues (a masonry chimney with 6" stainless steel liners), one flue on the main level and one in our basement, both located near the center of a very open floorplan. Still trying to decide whether to install one or two stoves and on which level. I also have cold air intakes plumbed and ready for each flue.

We mostly would like to heat the main level which is 3000 sq ft, but occasionally the basement level as well. I have narrowed things down to a steel (Kuma Wood Classic) , iron (BK Ashford 30), and soapstone (Woodstock Progress Hybrid) stove. I'm having a tough time deciding if one of these would be better over the others in our situation and located on which level. In addition, we have the owner of a 40 year old Hearthstone soapstone that swears that soapstone is superior. I am not so certain as when talking to a local shop, they mentioned steel or iron radiates better and may do better penetrating other areas of the house, but would love to hear from soapstone owners, too, especially if using a Progress Hybrid and how it is being used.

Any feedback would be most appreciated, dos or don'ts or anything on the above 3 models (which from reading, I haven't really found anything BAD about them). Which, makes it challenging

Thank you so much.

 

[tiva]

We had a Hearthstone soapstone in our former house, installed by the previous owner, and it was fine for a little supplemental heat and coziness. Now we heat (exclusively) with a Woodstock Absolute Steel (same climate, different house), and there's no comparison--the steel cat stove from Woodstock can easily take on the entire job of heating a house in a very cold climate. Soapstone stoves are lovely, of course, but the steel does an excellent job of keeping us warm without much effort.

 

[mdocod]

We installed an inexpensive but 2020EPA certified steel stove (AW2520E-P) in our new home as a temporary stop-gap while waiting for the Mansfield 8013 Hybrid to ship. These 2 stoves have very similar firebox and external dimensions so I can offer what we have observed as key differences between them. While not specifically the stoves you're interested in, the differences might carry over or might not...?

We wanted the soapstone stove because we like the look of it, especially in the space we had made for it. The blue stone of the Mansfield looks great on a deep blue tile hearth, in a room with light blue walls. The steel stove looks ordinary to me, and I like things that are more off-the-beaten-path. Soapstone wins in the looks department.

The AW2520E-P, like most steel stoves, has fire-brick on the bottom and up the walls a little ways to protect the sides/bottom from the direct-heat of the coals. Conversely, the the Mansfield has soapstone and cast iron on the bottom and walls. The result of this is that the steel stove concentrates more of its heat to the top plate, while the soapstone stove conducts a lot of heat to the sides before reaching the top.

The AW2520E-P would rapidly drive the top plate temps to 600-700F, while the sides would be ~300-400F except near the top where it was hotter. The Mansfield eventually drives side-wall temps of 400-600F, and much lower top plate temps of ~250-350F, except near the flu outlet where it runs a bit higher.

The hot top plate of the AW2520E-P is desirable for cooking or evaporating water. The Mansfield top plate is not hot enough to simmer or boil, but it will slowly evaporate water. I believe there may be options to swap out a top-stone for an iron cooking plate, which should achieve better conductivity for cooking or evaporating if desired. On the other hand, the more conservative top temp of the Mansfield might be desirable to keep something warm for a long time without burning it or evaporating it away rapidly.

The AW2520E-P could achieve noticeably higher peak BTU output. It doesn't weigh much and is very conductive, so the hottest part of the burn cycle shows up as big BTU numbers over a short time period. If fed continuously it can maintain higher continuous BTU output due to better conductivity and radiation characteristics. Steel makes the sort of heat that you find in the silverware drawer and feel across the room from radiation. Soapstone does a lot less "radiation" effect, so you'll only get meaningful radiation effect through the front window.

The peak BTU potential of the steel stove was noticeably "better." When fires are started in the steel stove the temperature in the house would jump up pretty rapidly, often overshooting our heating goals on "normal" nights where we just want a nice looking fire and supplemental heat. For some applications this may be desirable, especially if you have a lot of space to heat or extreme cold to contend with or both.

The peak output of a soapstone stove in a traditional burn "cycle" is noticeably lower. It takes a long time for the surface of the stove to even begin to get too hot to touch. The "hot" part of the burn with all the wood gases burning off, with all the flames dancing through the box, is actually used to heat up the box, the heat going into the home during the early part of the burn is mostly from the stove pipe, not the stove itself. By the time the stove is actually up to operating temp, a good portion of the burn cycle is over. This is great for comfort, as the heat output is far more steady over time, but this is not as good for peak thermal output. The reduced conductivity and radiation characteristics of soapstone also translate to lower continuous BTU output if continuously fed fuel, but it also means that the soapstone stove holds a bed of coals ready for re-starts noticeably better/longer.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[tsh2002]

Thank you very much for the feedback so far. This is great to know, mainly between the differences of soapstone and steel/iron. We have been told by the local stove dealer the same thing about the steel/iron radiating better in to the rooms around it, but wanted to verify. Also we do plan on running the stove through the entire winter even in the coldest conditions as much as possible so it sounds like the steel or iron will perform better for that purpose, too. I appreciate it!

 

[begreen]

There are literally hundreds of threads on this topic here. There have been some good discussions, and there have been some fanboy raves. Caveat emptor.

Of the stoves mentioned the Progress Hybrid may be the best choice. Not because it is soapstone, but because Woodstock has done a good job of creating a clean combustion package that heats well and efficiently. Kuma is a good company, but they no longer make a large cat stove. Note that the Ashford is a steel stove with a cast-iron jacket. The cast iron jacket buffers the steel stove heat making feel much softer. The mass of the cast iron jacket stores the heat for later release as the fire dies down. This has the effect of reducing room temperature swing much like a soapstone stove, but without the caveats. Other stoves with a cast iron jacket are the Jotul F55 and the PE Alderlea T6.

Other large cat stoves to consider are the Blaze King King, Regency 3500, and the Buck 91. These are steel stoves. The BK is thermostatically regulated for a very even heating experience.

 

[tsh2002]

There are literally hundreds of threads on this topic here. There have been some good discussions, and there have been some fanboy raves. Caveat emptor.

Of the stoves mentioned the Progress Hybrid may be the best choice. Not because it is soapstone, but because Woodstock has done a good job of creating a clean combustion package that heats well and efficiently. Kuma is a good company, but they no longer make a large cat stove. Note that the Ashford is a steel stove with a cast-iron jacket. The cast iron jacket buffers the steel stove heat making feel much softer. The mass of the cast iron jacket stores the heat for later release as the fire dies down. This has the effect of reducing room temperature swing much like a soapstone stove, but without the caveats. Other stoves with a cast iron jacket are the Jotul F55 and the PE Alderlea T6.

Other large cat stoves to consider are the Blaze King King, Regency 3500, and the Buck 91. These are steel stoves. The BK is thermostatically regulated for a very even heating experience.

Thanks begreen, that is actually very helpful. Yes, I've read for hours here on various threads, and still was trying to narrow down what would be best in our situation.

The local stove dealer was hyping up the BK Ashford due to its thermostatic control just as you mention. Was there a reason you mentioned the Woodstock Progress Hybrid would be a better choice than the Ashford? I've read on both, have seen a lot of good things, was just curious your thoughts.

Thanks again!

 

[begreen]

Thanks begreen, that is actually very helpful. Yes, I've read for hours here on various threads, and still was trying to narrow down what would be best in our situation.

The local stove dealer was hyping up the BK Ashford due to its thermostatic control just as you mention. Was there a reason you mentioned the Woodstock Progress Hybrid would be a better choice than the Ashford? I've read on both, have seen a lot of good things, was just curious your thoughts.

Thanks again!

They are both good stoves. The Progress is not thermostatically limited and will have a higher top-end output. That may or may not be important depending on the heat loss of the house. See below.

This is a very large space to heat with one stove. The fact that it is well-insulated is a plus. What is the ceiling height throughout? Are there large window areas? What will the primary heating system be and what is its BTU output?

Ranch designs can be hard to evenly heat. Do you have plan drawings or a sketch of the floorplan? Have you considered a wood furnace or boiler system to heat all 6000 sq ft?

 

[tsh2002]

They are both good stoves. The Progress is not thermostatically limited and will have a higher top-end output.

This is a very large space to heat with one stove. The fact that it is well-insulated is a plus. What is the ceiling height throughout? Are there large window areas? What will the primary heating system be and what is its BTU output? Have you considered a wood furnace or boiler system to heat all 6000 sq ft?

Ranch designs can be hard to evenly heat. Do you have plan drawings or a sketch of the floorplan?

OK, got it on the Progress Hybrid, and I appreciate this feedback, very helpful. Makes sense.

Ceiling height in both levels is standard 8 ft, however in the upstairs level where the stove and chimney are located, there is a vaulted ceiling that goes up to 12 ft at the peak. There is a ceiling fan there to help push the warm air back down. Other than that, no other large window areas or anything like that, pretty standard.

We added the second flue for the basement for that reason, still not sure if we would run the upstairs unit, downstairs, or both (unlikely).

I don't have any floorplan in electronic format at the moment, but I can say we purposely located the chimney at the very center of the floorplan, and it is very open except for the bedrooms, which I understand the heat won't get down to that area but that is not a huge concern. We have a 5 ton geothermal unit as the primary at the moment, but in the winter the electric bills can get up there which we hope to run the stove(s) full time to offset this and also enjoy the wood heat as well.

Thank you!

 

[begreen]

Sounds good. So far this has been about the main floor. One thing to consider for the basement might be a clean-burning and efficient EPA ZC fireplace if this will be a frequent family hangout area. It could feed heat via ducting to the upstairs as well.

Question: Is this a daylight basement and is the outside air feed in the basement at ground level?

 

[tsh2002]

Sounds good. So far this has been about the main floor. One thing to consider for the basement might be a clean-burning and efficient EPA ZC fireplace if this will be a frequent family hangout area. It could feed heat via ducting to the upstairs as well.

Question: Is this a daylight basement and is the outside air feed in the basement at ground level?

Unfortunately, the basement is half finished, so I think we are past the point of other options at the moment. That said, the floorplan is also very open, similar to the upstairs layout. One big main area where the chimney is located and a couple rooms off to the sides.

Yes the basement is a walkout (with standard windows) however the outside air intake (6" duct) runs in the ceiling of the basement from the outside, down through the chimney and pops out right behind where the stove would be located.

 

[begreen]

Yes the basement is a walkout (with standard windows) however the outside air intake (6" duct) runs in the ceiling of the basement from the outside, down through the chimney and pops out right behind where the stove would be located.

That will not work for a direct connect to many woodstoves. Most require the outside air to be at the level of the firebox floor or below it. The concern is that with the OAK above it could act like a chimney in a reverse-draft situation. The potential for this in a tightly-sealed house basement install is possible for example, when there is a high-CFM kitchen exhaust system running. The outside air pipe could terminate near the stove's intake without mechanically coupling to the stove to reduce this risk.

 

[tsh2002]

That will not work for a direct connect to many woodstoves. Most require the outside air to be at the level of the firebox floor or below it. The concern is that with the OAK above it could act like a chimney in a reverse-draft situation. The potential for this in a tightly-sealed house basement install is possible for example, when there is a high-CFM kitchen exhaust system running. The outside air pipe could terminate near the stove's intake without mechanically coupling to the stove to reduce this risk.

OK, thanks for mentioning this and definitely something we will need to explore more as we get closer. I like the idea of terminating the outside intake near the stove intake like you mention, as a workaround. This does make sense.

 

[tsh2002]

That will not work for a direct connect to many woodstoves. Most require the outside air to be at the level of the firebox floor or below it. The concern is that with the OAK above it could act like a chimney in a reverse-draft situation. The potential for this in a tightly-sealed house basement install is possible for example, when there is a high-CFM kitchen exhaust system running. The outside air pipe could terminate near the stove's intake without mechanically coupling to the stove to reduce this risk.

Just a question and not meaning to get too far off topic, but could installing a metal one-way damper to avoid a backdraft, at the stove intake resolve this issue, if the outside intake was connected direct to the stove intake?

 

[bholler]

Just a question and not meaning to get too far off topic, but could installing a metal one-way damper to avoid a backdraft, at the stove intake resolve this issue, if the outside intake was connected direct to the stove intake?

Technically yes it could resolve the issue but the pressures involved both positive and negative are pretty low it would have to be very sensitive with almost no resistance. And it still wouldn't meet code because it isn't a tested solution

 

[begreen]

OK, thanks for mentioning this and definitely something we will need to explore more as we get closer. I like the idea of terminating the outside intake near the stove intake like you mention, as a workaround. This does make sense.

Our stove has an air break between the intakes and the OAK connection so it probably would work but others do not.

 

[tsh2002]

Thanks again for all of the help on this. Today we talked to the local dealer and I think they have talked us in to the BK Ashford 30. I have also read extensively on this forum (which has been extremely helpful) about it as well, and for our case we feel it would be a good fit. Mainly considering the tight insulation of the house, open floor plan, and varying times of year with different heat requirements, it sounds like the BK is very flexible and responsive to different conditions, too. My only remaining question is regarding the 2-3 foot vertical rise requirement of the stove top to the thimble, I posted about that in the BK section.

BK Ashford vertical rise requirement (2-3 ft)

Hello: We have been at the local dealer and I think we've decided on the BK Ashford 30. This is a new install, in a new home. I see it recommends a minimum of 2 ft vertical rise from the top of the stove to the bottom of the thimble and recommends 3 ft. In our case, the bottom of the thimble...

www.hearth.com

Thanks again to all.

 

[KDubU]

Nice stove! Would have gone with this one likely if we could do a top exit but alas we need a rear exit. But settled on a Woodstock Hybrid Progress so happy.