Looking for insert advice

[tadmaz]

New to the forums! Looking for some insert advice. I've got woods, I've got a chainsaw, I recently was gifted a new 37 ton splitter, and my 16x4 firewood storage shelter is chock full and about to bust. Now I finally need to pull the trigger on a wood insert.

I'm going to pay for professional installation, my brands are limited to Travis (Fireplacex, Lopi), Osburn, Jotul, and Quadra-Fire. Also, my hearth extension goes out approx 17", so I would like to keep the insert flush so I wouldn't have to extend the hearth extension. Does anyone have experience with Travis's "greenstart" and "hybrid-fyre" or Quadra-Fire's "ACC" features? Greenstart sounds nice to start fires easily. ACC sounds convenient, where it adjusts the air when the fire is first starting. Hybrid-Fyre I believe is just their take on a cat. I'm not sure if these features are gimmicks or if they are deal-makers.

I've got 1400 sq ft upstairs and the insert will be upstairs. Bedrooms are down a hallway, so probably will not get much heat, which I'm ok with. BTU's varies quite a bit between brands, not sure what I really need. Between these choices and their features/reliability/performance, which would you choose and why?

FireplaceX Large Hybrid-Fyre, or 33 elite plus
Lopi Cape Cod
Osburn Matrix
Jotul C 450 or 550
Quadra-Fire Voyageur or Grand Voyageur

 

[begreen]

Of the choices I'm leaning toward the Quad. By the description I'm not sure you'll want too large an insert unless something is done to move the heat around the house. Is this a ranch layout on the fireplace floor level? Is there an open basement ceiling down below?

 

[tadmaz]

Correct, ranch layout on the fireplace floor. No level above. There is cathedral ceiling T&G pine paneling, with the tallest side being where the fireplace is, probably 15 ft high. I think I see what you're saying, almost don't want too much heat if it won't move around enough. Basement below is finished with drywall, but the fireplace is full masonry, so below the fireplace there is cinder blocks down to the basement's floor.

 

[BigBadVoodooDaddy]

Is there a reason why you are excluding the Kuma Stoves or BK?

Pound for pound the Kuma Ashwood and Sequoia are the best in my opinion and Blaze King Princess is an incredible piece of equipment that will keep you warm and toasty for a LONG time. The awesome thing about both is that they are stoves that can be used as inserts so if you move, you that it with you.

I also don't really believe in a flat fit as an insert because you miss out on a tremendous amount of radiant heat. Check out the pics of my Kuma Sequoia and you'll see that a bit sticking out is not bad. More importantly though, make sure you insulate the cavity behind the stove inside your fireplace with fireproof insulation. It helps quite a bit on maintaining heat.

 

[tadmaz]

Nearest Kuma dealer is hundreds of miles away. Blaze king has dealers about 60 miles away, perhaps I will take a look!

 

[begreen]

Correct, ranch layout on the fireplace floor. No level above. There is cathedral ceiling T&G pine paneling, with the tallest side being where the fireplace is, probably 15 ft high. I think I see what you're saying, almost don't want too much heat if it won't move around enough. Basement below is finished with drywall, but the fireplace is full masonry, so below the fireplace there is cinder blocks down to the basement's floor.

With a cathedral ceiling ceiling fans will need to be running. Otherwise heat will stratify at the peak. When that happens even a large stove can seem inadequate because most of the warm air is above 7 ft in the room. A simple way to move some heat down the hallway is to put a table or box fan at the far end of the hallway, placed on the floor, pointing toward the woodstove. Run it on low speed. It will blow the cooler air down low, toward the woodstove. The denser cool air will be replaced with lighter warm air from the stove room. Running this way you should notice at least a 5F increase in the hallway temp after about 30 minutes running. Another way is to run a duct with branches in the bedroom that outputs to the stove room. The duct would have a quiet inline fan and would pull air from the bedrooms and blow it into the LR. With a finished basement this may not be an option.

 

[tadmaz]

Thanks for all the tips! I am planning on running the ceiling fan in the fireplace room, blowing the air up I believe.

 

[BigBadVoodooDaddy]

Nearest Kuma dealer is hundreds of miles away. Blaze king has dealers about 60 miles away, perhaps I will take a look!

That's unfortunate although if you give the Kuma guys a call they will help you out. I found them to be incredibly helpful. I hear the same thing about the BK support.

 

[Woody Stover]

Erin, huh? I lived in various places around the Milw. area for 30 yrs including West Bend, and my brother and SIL are still over in Hubertus (running a Regency F2400..quality piece.) Absolutely gorgeous area!
You really have a leg up, with a woodlot to work. You can go out there and find small dead trees (<8") with the bark fallen off, and those may well be dry enough to burn now.
As far as the Greenstart and similar, I would pass on those. Fires are quick and easy to start and you'll get the hang of it in short order. Or you can keep a propane torch handy..but not right next to the stove.
Have you considered a radiant free-standing stove on the hearth? Like you said, you may have to do a little work to comply with clearances and floor R-value requirement, but a highly radiant stove would shift the effective heat downwards and into the surrounding room surfaces. The heat wouldn't pool in the ceiling area as much as it would when essentially all of your stove's heat is converted into warm air, as it is with an insert. Oh, and I myself am not a huge BK fan but that's just me, it's neither here nor there, and is a moot point not worthy of consideration.

 

[Toomb]

I would put in the biggest insert you can fit in. They require blowers to get the heat out and are not as effecient as free standing stoves. There is no reason to pay someone to do the instalation unless you just don't want to be bothered. The installation of an insert is really straight forward. I can't comment on the inserts you have listed other than the jotul 550. I have one and it serves us well........runs 24/7 from november thru may. However, i will eventually replace it with a free standing stove again as the blowers are somewhat obnoxious. Good luck on your project. Chris

 

[tadmaz]

In doing more digging, turns out there are more dealers around than I thought. Regency, Napoleon, and Kuma may be back on the table. Kuma dealer is 77 miles away though. I'll see if I can post some pics, I don't think I want to sacrifice real estate with a free standing stove. Obviously an insert that sticks out is preferred, but again I'm not sure I want to extend my hearth extension.

 

[tadmaz]

Kuma dealer will be in the area this week, they will be stopping by. They are willing to do the 77 miles distance for installation too, very cool. So far that's what I'm leaning towards.

 

[Woody Stover]

The Kuma Sequoia is a big boy, but you do live in the borderline tundra of WI and have the cathedral ceiling to take some of the heat. With a cat stove, you may be able to run it at lower output. OTOH, your house is tight. Tough call..

 

[begreen]

The Kuma Ashwood could be a good fit there.

 

[Woody Stover]

The Kuma Ashwood could be a good fit there.

That size should be more than enough, maybe even smaller would work. If it went out overnight, house might hold temp well enough until reloaded in the morning. Is someone home during the day to load a smaller stove?
I see Regency has some inserts as well.

 

[tadmaz]

I am also thinking the ashwood would be the right size. You guys think the quadra-fire, jotul, and regency are still worth looking at? I am planning to make it out to those dealers this week.

 

[begreen]

Yes, Quad and Regency are still worth looking at. The biggest Jotul insert is not all that large so that may be a limitation. Bring all your fireplace dimensions on a paper when looking One thing to consider is the firebox shape. Is shallow and wide or more square? The advantage of a wide firebox like the Jotul C550 is that it holds a longer log. The disadvantage is that it loads E/W which restricts capacity. A square firebox that is 18" deep or more will allow N/S loading and the logs will not roll up against the glass. Also, see if the insert's firebox is tapered in the rear or square. A tapered rear of the insert helps it fit in fireplaces than also have a taper, but it you can fit a squareback insert, that will allow you to load more with a consistent sized wood. But, for some looks may be more important and the Jotul C550 and Quad Voyager are very good looking fireplace inserts and decent heaters.

 

[Kenny78]

We have a freestanding quadrafire 4300 with ACC. It is a nice feature but not make or break. If the rear air lever is pushed rearward(open) and then brought back forward it activates the timer. After 15 minutes or so it will close the rear air.

Ours is a freestanding epa stove that replaced a pre epa insert. I am very pleased with our quadrafire.

 

[tadmaz]

Went to a few dealers. The quadra-fire 7100 fireplace looks awesome, huge firebox, but I believe it's for new construction only and would need secondary air. The Jotul 550 and Osburn Matrix had really shallow fireboxes, wife and I couldn't believe how shallow. I'm leaning towards the Kuma Ashwood insert. Its inner firebox dimensions are 19 wide x 17 deep. The next deepest firebox is the quadra-fire voyageur grand, which has a 22 wide x 14 deep firebox. I think I'd be happier with a deeper firebox, versus wide and shallow. I had the Kuma dealer over to measure, was really happy with the dealer. I'll still collecting some data from some manufacturers, and will post some figures when I get them.

 

[tadmaz]

Haven't gotten any feedback from the other manufacturers yet, will need to measure the inner fireboxes by going to dealers. The quote for the Kuma Ashwood nearly made me faint (see below). I thought the MSRP was $2,212, so I was thinking $4500 range including install. (broken link removed to http://formulafab.com/kuma-woodstoves/)
Therefore I am planning on getting 2 quotes for the quadra-fire voyaguer grand and also on the regency ci2600. I may not keep checking on this thread, I don't have $7k saved up, could be a while. Thanks to everyone for exposing me to some other brands that I was otherwise oblivious to.

Kuma Ashwood + liner + termination cover w/ animal screen + travel + lodging + install = $6,200 + 500 blower = $6700 OUCH! I am not mentioning the dealer name or exact pricing, these figures are rounded.

 

[tadmaz]

I'm back with an update! Waiting to make sure there are no major medical bills with my 3rd child coming in the next few days.

I've been all over the place searching for the right insert. Enviro Cabello 1700 looks nice, however sounds like they were purchased last week and no one can even give me a ballpark quote. The firebox is very deep, and I'm wondering for a flush insert if that doesn't make much sense. E/W loading may make the most sense since you want more radiant heat from the glass, right?

See attachment for the competitors. Includes insulated flex liner plus rock wool insulation by the insert. No one in SE Wisconsin has heard of a block off plate. By the way, the Enviro manuals have a nice write-up about block off plates. Wife really wants a cast iron surround, the Quadra-fire's is too big to clear the stones. Kuma doesn't offer cast surrounds. So really the options are the Vermont Montpelier or the HI400. The HI400 in black oversized cast with grille looks really really sharp. I'm also warming up to the idea of a cat.

 

[illini81]

I'm back with an update! Waiting to make sure there are no major medical bills with my 3rd child coming in the next few days.

I've been all over the place searching for the right insert. Enviro Cabello 1700 looks nice, however sounds like they were purchased last week and no one can even give me a ballpark quote. The firebox is very deep, and I'm wondering for a flush insert if that doesn't make much sense. E/W loading may make the most sense since you want more radiant heat from the glass, right?

See attachment for the competitors. Includes insulated flex liner plus rock wool insulation by the insert. No one in SE Wisconsin has heard of a block off plate. By the way, the Enviro manuals have a nice write-up about block off plates. Wife really wants a cast iron surround, the Quadra-fire's is too big to clear the stones. Kuma doesn't offer cast surrounds. So really the options are the Vermont Montpelier or the HI400. The HI400 in black oversized cast with grille looks really really sharp. I'm also warming up to the idea of a cat.

I get 12 hour burns in my Enviro Boston 1700, which I believe has the same firebox as the Enviro Cabello. I think the majority of hearth.com owners would prefer N/S loading in an insert over E/W - is much easier to load the stove, and you don't have to worry about a log rolling into the glass. I'm not really following your argument about more radiant heat from the glass resulting from E/W loading.

 

[Bad LP]

I love my Jotul 550 in brown enamel. No block off plate allowed. 6" liner to the chimney cap.

 

[begreen]

I've been all over the place searching for the right insert. Enviro Cabello 1700 looks nice, however sounds like they were purchased last week and no one can even give me a ballpark quote.

The Cabello would be a nice choice. I'm not finding anything about Sherwood Industries being sold or up for sale. Can you provide a source? @stovelark have you news on this?

 

[edyit]

No block off plate allowed.

why is it not allowed?