precaud
Minister of Fire
No, they're both jacketed on sides and top. But the 17 looks to have a larger frontal area. Don't know about you, but I like stoves that have strong radiation to the front.
Looking for low-cost, hi-style wood stove
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Finally reading then manual. The handle is supposed to stay off. Probably to discourage you from opening the door. Well, it's a crap-shoot. Parts would have to come from Chile. Englander is just a couple of states away. But at these prices, it's basically disposable. But that one in my previous post looks like it lasted a while.
http://www.adoos.cl/pics/10587361
What about using glass on the floor? We have wood floors.
Edit: This high-end South African store carries them.
http://www.fireandgas.co.za/htm/amesti.html
http://www.adoos.cl/pics/10587361
What about using glass on the floor? We have wood floors.
Edit: This high-end South African store carries them.
http://www.fireandgas.co.za/htm/amesti.html
precaud
Minister of Fire
There aren't really any parts you'd have to import. Glass and firebrick are generic. Anything welded in place isn't a replaceable part. From what I've seen so far, the Englander 17 is probably a more bullet-proof design. Stainless secondary tubes are replaceable by you. Parts are reasonable and readily available, if needed. Warranty service is superb, especially for Hearth.com participants. 
There's really no risk going that route.
I don't know about the glass-on-floor question, someone else will have to weigh in on that.
There's really no risk going that route.I don't know about the glass-on-floor question, someone else will have to weigh in on that.
VCBurner
Minister of Fire
I'm a big fan of the European stoves. I had a Surdiac that produced an amazing amount of heat. I like the look of the Nordic you mentioned, though I had never seen it before. But a lot can be said about buying a USA produced stove with a good name such as Englander. Good luck!
Chile is one of my favorite countries. I'm a big fan of Jose Pinera, the guy who, more than anyone, resurrected their economy and society. I think the US is going to have to go through a similar process, eventually.
Every American should watch this hour-long vid. Use VLC and crop to 16:9 so it will be full-screen. Sit back and have a cup of tea.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8215036437587175272#
Every American should watch this hour-long vid. Use VLC and crop to 16:9 so it will be full-screen. Sit back and have a cup of tea.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8215036437587175272#
Went back to Lowe's. They had four. Yes, 16" logs will fit N/S. Looked very well made. Nothing crooked. Tidy, unobtrusive welds. Glass is 10"x10". Handle seemed to work fine. I guess it's safer for kids.
Thanks for posting the detail shots. It is a decent price for a stove. In this price range there aren't a lot of options and they appear to have packed a lot into the stove. Normally convective side panels and ash pan are extras. Caveats might be thinner metal, hard to get replacement parts if something like the baffle warps, and non-standard firebrick size (metric?). I'm not overly fond of the door gasket arrangement, but in this price range it could be a decent stove. We won't know until we have a few folks burning in them here for a few years.
precaud
Minister of Fire
Thanks for the pics. Glad to hear your impressions were favorable. Some thoughts:
The firebricks are the old-style, heavy refractory type - not the lightweight insulating type.
That's a LOT of secondary air holes up there - three banks on the baffle, and one on each side.
According to the manual, the secondary baffle is removable, which also means it's replaceable. Is it stainless steel, or the same as the rest of the stove? Based on the price point, I'm guessing it's not stainless. If it's not, you can pretty much count on having to replace it at some point.
Engineering-wise, I'd give the nod to the Englander. But it's still an intriguing stove. It's good to see another N/S burner at this price point.
The firebricks are the old-style, heavy refractory type - not the lightweight insulating type.
That's a LOT of secondary air holes up there - three banks on the baffle, and one on each side.
According to the manual, the secondary baffle is removable, which also means it's replaceable. Is it stainless steel, or the same as the rest of the stove? Based on the price point, I'm guessing it's not stainless. If it's not, you can pretty much count on having to replace it at some point.
Engineering-wise, I'd give the nod to the Englander. But it's still an intriguing stove. It's good to see another N/S burner at this price point.
precaud
Minister of Fire
BG, the ash pan is only that in name - you shovel ashes out and put them into the ash pan! Might as well put them right into a bucket...
precaud
Minister of Fire
I can't remember the actual percentages at the moment, but not many American buns would fit in there... :lol:
precaud
Minister of Fire
precaud
Minister of Fire
It's hard to decipher all this from photos, but those side panels also look alot like the low-density variety of Skamol vermiculite (Skamolex?) that I got samples of last year. If they are, that would be a good thing. One way to tell would be by the thickness. If it's 1" thick, it probably is Skamolex. If it's 1.25", then it's likely firebrick.
precaud
Minister of Fire
It looks like Lowes is marketing these in Canada, they're in the 2010 buyers guide:
http://www.lowes.ca/buying_guides/..pdf2010 Seasonal Heaters Buyers Guide.pdf
The stove is sold with a 5-year warranty. I wonder who handles warranty claims? That probably explains why they are test marketing them up north.
http://www.lowes.ca/buying_guides/..pdf2010 Seasonal Heaters Buyers Guide.pdf
The stove is sold with a 5-year warranty. I wonder who handles warranty claims? That probably explains why they are test marketing them up north.
The tray is bigger than it looks in that pic. I suppose it would look nicer than an ash bucket. I tend to spill ashes on the way to the bucket. You probably could cook in it. One of the reasons I'm buying this is for the Apocalypse.
precaud
Minister of Fire
Hiram Maxim
Minister of Fire
The Stepped baffle with integral secondary square burn tubes is interesting!
I would imagine it creates some nice turbulence for a good hot air/smoke mixture?
The bricks make the firebox look really tall.....
I would imagine it creates some nice turbulence for a good hot air/smoke mixture?
The bricks make the firebox look really tall.....
Looks like it is indeed on the EPA list. Emissions a bit higher than the 17 but nothing out of hand. What is the firebox size on each of these?
precaud
Minister of Fire
Actually, that was one of the first secondary techniques used. Morso, Jotul, probably others used it early on, with stainless material.Hiram Maxim said:
Unfortunately just the opposite. It creates very tidy layering and little turbulence, much less than burn tubes under a baffle do.
Weight seems to be 176lbs vs 230lbs for the 17-VL. The Amesti site doesn't seem to list it but some import site says 80kg. I'd be lugging this home and wrestling it into place myself, so weight matters.
Other diffs:
*Cast iron door on the 17-VL
*17-VL door just butt-closes but has a very big gasket. The window gasket is somewhat visible which mars the slick looks a bit. The Amesti gaskets are not very visible.
*17-VL seems more designed for a fan. The Amesti has heat shields all over including the back to allow for convection. A lot of rural people in Chile probably don't have electricity. And there would be none in the Apocalypse.
*17-VL has a cold air input on the bottom, which obstructs the wood bin a bit. I suppose you could supply outside air to any stove by just putting a vent in the floor.
I'm not sure if the Amesti has more overall wood capacity. You could probably pile up nearly as much in the 17-VL but it would tend to fall out if you opened the door. The Amesti seems far more kid-safe, especially with the removable door handle (cannot be left on). I don't have kids tho. The 17-VL would definitely give you a nice, big fire view with its bigger window and shallow depth without having a big fire. The styling of the 17-VL is more neutral and would probably go better with traditional architecture. Size-wise, the 17-VL is approx 2" wider, 1" taller and 7.5" less deep.
Conclusion:
17-VL, great designer-type stove on the cheap.
Amesti N380, style in a practical, kid-safe stove.
Other diffs:
*Cast iron door on the 17-VL
*17-VL door just butt-closes but has a very big gasket. The window gasket is somewhat visible which mars the slick looks a bit. The Amesti gaskets are not very visible.
*17-VL seems more designed for a fan. The Amesti has heat shields all over including the back to allow for convection. A lot of rural people in Chile probably don't have electricity. And there would be none in the Apocalypse.
*17-VL has a cold air input on the bottom, which obstructs the wood bin a bit. I suppose you could supply outside air to any stove by just putting a vent in the floor.
I'm not sure if the Amesti has more overall wood capacity. You could probably pile up nearly as much in the 17-VL but it would tend to fall out if you opened the door. The Amesti seems far more kid-safe, especially with the removable door handle (cannot be left on). I don't have kids tho. The 17-VL would definitely give you a nice, big fire view with its bigger window and shallow depth without having a big fire. The styling of the 17-VL is more neutral and would probably go better with traditional architecture. Size-wise, the 17-VL is approx 2" wider, 1" taller and 7.5" less deep.
Conclusion:
17-VL, great designer-type stove on the cheap.
Amesti N380, style in a practical, kid-safe stove.
precaud
Minister of Fire
tickbitty said:
tick, if the limit gets lowered to 5gm/hr as is being discussed, this stove would get bumped off the list. The secondary air arrangement they're using is an example of brute force vs careful elegant engineering.
rader will have to give us that when he gets it home.
precaud
Minister of Fire
raderator said:
That leads me to think, that is either the weight without the bricks, or else the bricks are Skamolex and not the heavy refractory type.
Not necessarily a plus. Good doors can be made from steel - the bracing is important.
Gosh, northeast folks prepping for the Apocolypse... southern folks waiting for the end times... sounds pretty dour. What's goin' on out there? You guys need to come out west where the air is clean and the vistas are wide and clear... and there's plenty of sun to make electricity (and heat) from.
On the other hand, I very much like the lower population density we have... invitation withdrawn. :lol:
I've been an atheist and a fascist for decades. I'm hoping for a revolution/civil war/military coup. Looking good! I bought silver at $13
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