Looking for pellet stove recommendations

[masterswimmer]

My wife and I have an interesting situation. We're looking to put a pellet stove in our finished basement. The garage is directly connected to the basement (same level) and we need to heat the garage. I will be keeping about 20-25 saltwater fishtanks in the garage and need to raise the ambient temperature in there.

We've looked at the Harman XXV & Advance & P68. The one that intrigued us the most was the XXV. Unfortunately, after reading the reviews and the recurring problem of the fan noise we decided to expand our search. There are so many options that we don't know where to go at this time. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

We believe we need about 50,000 btu's. A little more or a little less should work.

Thanks in advance.
BTW, thanks to BrokeColoReefer for referring this great site.

 

[begreen]

So how is the garage going to be heated via the finished basement? Don't kid yourself, a pellet stove is an efficient wood furnace, but the operative word here is 'furnace'. Most aren't too noisy on medium and some are ok on high. Visit your pellet stove dealers and have them set the stove on high. It will roar like a furnace, some quieter than others, but they are not silent. Harmans are good heaters, the P68 has a long and strong reputation. For an alternative, I'd look at Quadrafires.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Well, i would like to recommend the new Quad AE Mt vernon, but its to new so i dont know how its going to act.
There are two basic designs of pellet stoves. Bottem feeds and top feeds. Bottem feeds from my understanding tend to jam more, top feeds have less fuel choices.
Harmon is a reputable company, more importantly, how reputable is the dealer? The dealer is who you will go to if you have a problem. Pellet stoves break, no brand is exempt from that rule. Dealer support is very important. So i guess my point is i would shop dealers more then i would shop stoves.
Some of the tried and true quads that work pretty consistanly are the mt vernon (old style) and the 1200. www.quadrafire.com
I dont know harmon that well so i will let other respond to that.

I would be VERY nervous about relying on a pellet stove to keep my tanks warm. They just dont work that consistantly. The best analogy i cant think of is tinkering with a needle wheel protien skimmer. Pellet stoves are about that reliable. I would seroiusly consider gas if its avalible. In no way would i trust 50 grand worth of saltwater equipment to a pellet stove, well let me restate that. If your always home no problem, otherwise NO WAY.

AKA BCR

 

[masterswimmer]

BeGreen, I will be keeping the door between the basement and the garage open during the cold weather months to allow the stove heat to be blown into the garage. I figured there'd be some noise involved. There is a motor for the feed (auger I assume), blower motor and of course the combustion itself. The negative feedback on the Harman XXV seems to stem from metal on metal for some reason. I don't see why that should happen. In this day and age that should not be an issue.

MountainStove, thanks for your candor regarding the stoves and the efficiency of heating the tanks. I think I was unclear in my first post. The garage (fish tank location) is an unheated room and uninsulated at this time. In the winter months the temp in the garage gets down to the low 40's. Trying to heat the tanks in a room with the ambient temp at 40 degrees will test any aquarium heater (at best they are cheap and unreliable anyway). My intent is to just raise the room (garage) temp to the 65-70 deg range and it'll take some of the burden off the submerged tank heaters. I would NEVER rely solely on room temp to heat any tank, let alone 20-25 tanks.

Any more feedback is welcome too. I'll be checking out the Quads Ryan. I appreciate the tip. I believe the dealer has a decent reputation. I haven't heard anything bad about them. However, I haven't been in this market longer than two weeks. How would I really know their reputation?

Thanks guys.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Post your location, maybe some users here can help you along.
Otherwise, its hit or miss. But a few good signs are:
They stock parts
They know what there doing.
They have been in business for a while
They check out with the BBB
They are eager to sell you what you need, not necessarly what you think you need.
As funny as it seems, you get good vibes from good people.
Dont shop price. You can pay for it in the end with poor service.

As long as your tank heaters can keep up, if the stove poops then your fine. I would make sure 100% that the heaters can warm your tanks without the stove, and like you say use it to take the load off. you will be fine. You will be severly pissed if you come home to some dead tanks because the pellet stove forgot to ignite because its dirty.

Ohhhh and welcome to hearth.com!!

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Ohh and one more thing, this fourm is best represented by east coast members. Make sure you check back tommorrow!

 

[masterswimmer]

Thanks for the welcome MSG. The one thing I can say is I do get good vibes from them. They even sent their installer to my home to check out the uniqueness of the install and situation.........no charge

I'm in Chester, NY. And I will update my profile to reflect that.

 

[moog5]

We've looked at the Harman XXV & Advance & P68. The one that intrigued us the most was the XXV. Unfortunately, after reading the reviews and the recurring problem of the fan noise we decided to expand our search. There are so many options that we don't know where to go at this time. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

.

I wrote some long winded posts regarding the issue with the XXV distribution blower buzzing. Harman finally figured out what the problem was and eventually resolved it.

I have not had any problems since, and have been extremely happy with the XXV stove. As a matter of fact, I highly recommend the XXV.

If you like the stove, I wouldn't worry about the dist blower buzz noise I had. I believe Harman modifed the design of all the new XXV's in production by securing the two pieces of metal that were tapping against eachother with a large clamp. The Harman dealers on this site might shed more light on this for you.

I whole heartedly agree with what MSG says about trusting the reliability of a pellet stove to "continuously" keep your aquariums warm. The more frequently you maintain the pellet stove the more reliable it will be, but reality being what it is, there will be times when it will go out when you don't plan on it (too many fines in the pellets, lack of cleaning and scraping, running out of pellets, etc). If you can sustain alot of damage by having the room get too cold for too long, I wouldn't recommend using a pellet stove as a sole source of heat for it.

 

[mgambuzza]

Another consideration is POWER. If you lose power the pellet stove goes down until it is restored. There are a couple of pellet stoves out there that do have the ability for battery backup which will hold you over for several hours of power failure. I have a Thelin Parlor stove with the battery backup option. I've only had to use it twice for a couple of hours at a time during storms - it worked flawlessly and was worth the extra money! Otherwise, as mentioned earlier, a gas stove could provide consistent heat throughout a power outage.

 

[elkimmeg]

I think the top 3 pellet stoves and Quads Enviro and Harman Travis Industries make a lopi or Avalon brand as well. If not looking for all the bells and whistlesand a bit mechanically inclined Englander sold at Home Chepo And places like Aubuchon or Ace Hardware does the job of providing heat

 

[HarryBack]

My money would be on the p68. 68,000 btu's/hr, which is 18,000 btu/hr more than the XXV, its easier to service and clean, can use a battery backup, tho I prefer a generator, you can get a small one for about the same as a backup and battery would cost you.
Any stove will create SOME noise, and the XXV seems the quietest unit in the Harman line, but this isnt saying the P68 is so noisy you'll lie awake at night listening to it!

Also, interesting note! I kept saltwater reef tanks for quite some time, before we had 4 kids and I could no longer afford it! :sick:
As im sure you know, but not everyone here might know, but marine tropical fish, and especially invertebrates are VERY temperature concious! The power going out would be a disaster in more than one way....temperature drop would certainly cause issues, but the lack of Oxygen would in very short order create an aquarium of toxic soup, and marine life is very expensive! The bio filters start to die in fairly short order, and when they do, they pollute the tank. Cant just disconnect it either, as it takes about a month to cycle a new filter....Im guessing here with 25 tanks you are a breeder (Perculas?), and I honestly think a smallish generator might be a very good investment in this case over a battery backup.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

I have been struck with the reef tank sickness for years. I quite the hobby about a year ago and now im building another tank. IF you want to see the progress, follow the thread i linked to in my new stove thread. I have always kept few fish, mostly inverts and corals. I like having a little slice of a reef in the house.
Funny, this time around i have had a "green" angle when setting up this tank. For you folks taht dont know reef tanks can cost a fortune in electricity. Its not uncommon to have 1000 watts of light, 600 watts of pumps, 500 watts of heat, plus all the other equpmnet ...you can EASY burn 200 KW a month. I have spent a small fortune on high end equioment that is very low power consumption. Yes i have 1000 watts of light, but thats spread over 4x250w lights. The start to come on one at a time and all run for a short period of time before they start to turn off one at a time. Not only does it simulate the natural morning, high noon, evening cycle it conserves power. From my calculations with all the stuff im running on my tank, i have cut my electricity bill by 70% from where it was (talking about the tank only, not the whole house)

back to mr swimmer. Hope all the advice these fine folks gave helps! let us know how it works out and we LOVE photos. I want to see the stove in the fish garage.

 

[HarryBack]

oh, yeah, MSG...the power and sheer cost of the materials! When I stopped, I was running a 125 gal reef, with metal halides of 1000W as well.....4 pumps....one for circulation, one for surface water movement, one for the protein skimmer (mines 5' tall!), and one to power the filter I built! Honestly, other than the sheer cost, what killed it for me was the maintenance...2-3 hours/weekend....worse than even a woodstove!

I do have to admit the bug has been biting me as of late too.....my next thing I think will be a fresh water, heavily planted aquarium...still got the metal halides, still got 3 ORP controllers I can use to regulate CO2, even have an old O2 reactor Ill use as a CO2 reactor! Ive also been accumulating some really nice petrified wood for visual elements...got somewhere near 100 lbs now....pays to know folks in the construction biz out west!

If my wife sees Im thinking abour fish again, she'll kill me! Mums the word, ok?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

I hear ya. My wife about shot me when i told her i was getting back in, it was hard to hide the 200 gallon tank that im building out of acrylic in the basement. The last time i flooded the house and all the drywall fell out of the bedroom celing. I had to promisse her that i will keep it in the basement this time.
This tank im running a Kalkwasser reactor, Calcium reactor, Huge double beckett skimmer, 250 lbs of live rock (aquacultured of course). Ozone Generator, Controllers with PH, ORP, conductivity (salinity), Tunze Streams with controllers, I have medical infusion pumps (IVAC 7000's) to drip my chemicals just how i want them... You can realy go nuts in this hobby. I have made most of my equipment out of acrylic. I have a small acrylic shop in the basement. This is by far the strangest tank i have ever set up. Its a weird size. Its 48 wide, 36 deep and 26 tall. I think its going to look cool looking in that deep tank. I keep mostly stoney corals.

 

[masterswimmer]

Thank you all for the great advice. Pete S. great news about the Harman XXV. I think we're going to continue looking towards the Harman XXV and the P68.

MSG, you can rest assured pix will follow

 

[masterswimmer]

MSG, that tank sounds awesome. The dimensions are an aquascapers dream. 3' deep is awesome.

 

[3nickles]

Wow. Can't believe all the Saltwater guys on this Fireplace Forum!

I've been keeping Saltwater fish for about 25 years now. Had my 92 gallon reef running about 6 years. Mostly soft corals and a few Yellow Tangs. 250W halide with a few actinics, moonlight, Aqua-C skimmer and Mag 1800 circ pump does the trick for me. Been patiently waiting to try SPS and LPS. Heard they're much harder to keep than the soft corals.

 

[masterswimmer]

Wow. Can't believe all the Saltwater guys on this Fireplace Forum!

I've been keeping Saltwater fish for about 25 years now. Had my 92 gallon reef running about 6 years. Mostly soft corals and a few Yellow Tangs. 250W halide with a few actinics, moonlight, Aqua-C skimmer and Mag 1800 circ pump does the trick for me. Been patiently waiting to try SPS and LPS. Heard they're much harder to keep than the soft corals.

Nice to meet yet another reef keeper. Where are ya located? LPS is a bit harder than softies, but your lighting and skimmer is more than adequate to handle it (as long as your water parameters are in line).

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Go for it! you have what it takes for SPS, you just need to make sure you either dose calcuim and kalkwasser or do water changed on a good schedule with decent salt. They grow like weeds with the right water parameters.

 

[3nickles]

NW Chicago Burbs.

I haven't been checking my water params as much as I should but I think they're OK. Only problem was trying to keep the Alkalinity up. Kept dropping too low around 5 or 6 DKH. Used B-Ionic 2 part and CA was Ok but the ALK kept dropping. Don't know why. I have to test to see where it's at now.

I was thinking of trying some LPS like Candy Cane (NEON?) or something like that first. Have any suggestions?

I have to culitvate and get rid of a ton of pulsing Xenia. They're thriving in my tank and have taken over. Anyone near who wants some nice Xenia real cheap??

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

your Ca is probably to high, and its buffering your Dkh. If your Ca is over 400 your Dkh will go down, along with the PH which can be scary. Are you running a deep sand bed? that will help keep it up and also running lights on the oppisit schedule in a macro fuge will help with the ph swings at "night". LPS also build there skeletons out of Ca, so it needs to be in check. LPS and SPS have similar needs.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

for you hearth folks that are reading this, were talking about LPS= Large polyp stoney corals SPS = small polyp stoney corals. These are corals that make up reefs.

 

[BrotherBart]

your Ca is probably to high, and its buffering your Dkh. If your Ca is over 400 your Dkh will go down, along with the PH which can be scary.

I hate it when that happens.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Yea me too, expecially when it drops so low and becomes so acidic that you toast a few grand worth of corals.

 

[masterswimmer]

3Nickles, Falling pH can also be due to low Mg. Get yourself some Salifert test kits and make sure your Mg falls in the 1200-1300 range. Many people don't realize the correlation between the two.

I've got to stop hijacking my own threads