Looking for Seattle area stove installer

[NHWS]

Mod Edit: Moved from Florida thread.

It isn't just Florida.

I've had very similar problems here in the Seattle area. Dealers and sweeps don't return calls, or don't want to work in my 45-minutes-from-downtown-Seattle rural area. From their POV, stoves are harder to find than customers. After 3 months of trying, I might have found one sweep company that will sell and install a stove.

Availability is limited and prices are very high. That might improve during the warm weather, but with the limited view of the relevant parts of the supply chain that most of us have, it's hard to know that prices won't be higher next summer.

 

[bholler]

Finally found one sweep company that is a possibility. There's a yellow flag; still investigating. Cost is eye-watering - around $11K for one installed BK Princess, including all new double wall pipe.

That really isn't a crazy price at all with today's pricing. But it depends upon the specifics

 

[NHWS]

BK Princess PE32, plain black door, Ultra Pedestal, outside air, blower fan, 10' double wall flue, Class A chimney, total stack 18'. No hearth pad (already present), no need to remove/dispose of an old stove. $3K for the installation, the rest for the stove and parts.

The yellow flag is that their office was reluctant to provide a detailed bid, although they grudgingly did after I insisted. OTOH, the estimator/installer seemed more than usually willing to accommodate pandemic precautions.

 

[bholler]

BK Princess PE32, plain black door, Ultra Pedestal, outside air, blower fan, 10' double wall flue, Class A chimney, total stack 18'. No hearth pad (already present), no need to remove/dispose of an old stove. $3K for the installation, the rest for the stove and parts.

The yellow flag is that their office was reluctant to provide a detailed bid, although they grudgingly did after I insisted. OTOH, the estimator/installer seemed more than usually willing to accommodate pandemic precautions.

We will not give a broken down bid either. Just a description of the work to be done and basic explanation of the materials to be used. We used to do detailed bids and to many people wanted to argue over whether this part or that was needed. So we don't do it anymore

 

[NHWS]

That's very helpful information. Perhaps not a much of a yellow flag as I was thinking.

I haven't, and don't expect to, argue over the details, but they ofc don't know that. Just wanted to make sure that the list of parts was plausible, e.g., Class A instead of galvanized, double wall v single wall, and all of the stove options that I asked for.

 

[bholler]

That's very helpful information. Perhaps not a much of a yellow flag as I was thinking.

I haven't, and don't expect to, argue over the details, but they ofc don't know that. Just wanted to make sure that the list of parts was plausible, e.g., Class A instead of galvanized, double wall v single wall, and all of the stove options that I asked for.

That should be specified in the bid for sure. We do we just don't list each part involved. It pretty much say we will be installing x brand chimney according to manufacturer and code requirements and connecting with this type of pipe etc

 

[NHWS]

Called the sweep company and said I wanted to go ahead with the project. New problem: they want me to pay them in advance for 75% of the cost of the stove and materials. They are a small family business. If anything happens to them I'd be out more than $6K with no recourse. Already went through a smaller version of that a year ago when a company shut down due to the owner's long COVID.

 

[Ashful]

Called the sweep company and said I wanted to go ahead with the project. New problem: they want me to pay them in advance for 75% of the cost of the stove and materials. They are a small family business. If anything happens to them I'd be out more than $6K with no recourse. Already went through a smaller version of that a year ago when a company shut down due to the owner's long COVID.

Ask them for details on their business insurance. They are likely covered for such scenarios, such as inability to complete the job due to illness or incapacitation.

 

[Ashful]

Hey @bholler, what type of insurance do installers like you usually carry? Liability for injury, I'm sure... but what about something like the E&O that engineers carry for errors or inability to complete a job?

 

[NHWS]

They are now getting aggressive about the deposit and about my pandemic precautions (I insist on as few people as plausible in the building, good fitting masks without vents, and a rapid COVID test (which I can supply)). More yellow flags. Not good.

I did just find another list of a handful more sweeps in the general area (25 miles, anyway). Time to start making some more calls.

 

[NHWS]

@BKVP Is it possible for me to purchase a Princess directly from BK? Most of the local BK dealers won't talk to me unless they are also doing the installation, and they won't install in my area. If I could purchase a stove it would remove a significant part of the cost of the up-front risk to the installer.

 

[NHWS]

I mentioned that I would like information about their bonding and insurance so that I would have the same kind of protection they want by insisting on a deposit. They replied by withdrawing their bid.

Now starting over again. 3 more sweeps to try within 25 miles. If none of them work out, then I seem to be out of options.

 

[begreen]

I mentioned that I would like information about their bonding and insurance so that I would have the same kind of protection they want by insisting on a deposit. They replied by withdrawing their bid.

Now starting over again. 3 more sweeps to try within 25 miles. If none of them work out, then I seem to be out of options.

This really should be in it's own thread.

I mentioned that I would like information about their bonding and insurance so that I would have the same kind of protection they want by insisting on a deposit. They replied by withdrawing their bid.

Now starting over again. 3 more sweeps to try within 25 miles. If none of them work out, then I seem to be out of options.

What area? Seattle north, east, west, south?

 

[begreen]

Lopi stoves are a bit too small.

How is the Liberty a small stove?

 

[NHWS]

What area? Seattle north, east, west, south?

25 to 30 miles NE of Seattle downtown, in unincorporated King County between Redmond and Duvall.

 

[Rickb]

Why not just put it on a credit card so you have the option to reverse charges if they dont install? I use my capitol one card just for this purpose. It protects me if something happens on a large purchase. I have had to contest charges from a place a month after the purchase because they wouldn't correct issues.

And being a contractor working in different places daily. I have to say I have not seen anyone doing pandemic precautions for at least the last year. Someone wanting what your asking would be a pretty big red flag for me as someone that I probably don't want to deal with or I would jack prices up. I haven't even seen any customers requiring basic face coverings anymore. And that includes commercial food places.(examples: Nestle, Hershey, Pinacle, Gilster, Jasper, and many local midwest places.)

My best advice to you would be to drop your demands to installers and instead set it up so they have there own area where they are working and you don't have to interact with them so once they are done you can decomtaminate as you see fit. Its what I suggest and have set up for my own mother. She still rarely leaves the house and will only shop when the store is almost empty and she absolutely has to.

 

[NHWS]

With all due respect, I'm not really interested in the common opinion about pandemic precautions, and this is not the right forum for discussing it. I have very-well-informed sources and a high-risk person in the house. The nature of the medical risk is not the issue.

This is about trying to hire an installer. The stove location cannot be isolated. Over the past few months I have developed methods to handle having installers inside, but it requires installers who are willing to take some precautions. I told them that I could provide everything needed. Anyone who refuses to take simple, free-to-them precautions after being told that there is a high risk occupant isn't interested enough in the safety of the occupants. That is their prerogative, but I would avoid anyone with that attitude for any project.

I use credit cards that way for shorter time frames. The charges can be disputed for 60 days. 90 to 120 days lead time for parts plus 30 to 45 more to schedule the install is longer than 60 days. I told them that I understood their need for a safe transaction, but that I also wanted safety. I suggested that they provide me their insurance (thx, Ashful) and bond information, or that I would arrange a construction loan and let a bank keep everything fair. They found that unacceptable. They insisted their word is completely trustworthy, but that I should pay in advance.

A relative of mine works for a construction company that mostly does residential work. I'm reasonably familiar with the way they operate. Their company is very upfront, and routinely asks about (and follows) health precautions. If they installed stoves, I'd hire them.

 

[NHWS]

How is the Liberty a small stove?

It isn't, of course. It does not seem to be comparable to the Princess or F3500 in several other ways, though. I mostly ignore stoves that are not on the EPA's tax credit list, partly for the tax credit, partly to burn less wood for a given amount of heat, and partly because I prefer low emissions.

 

[kborndale]

Installers are all very busy right now. They are going to pass on jobs that they don't want to do. Why would they take a job that they think the customer is going to be difficult when they have plenty of other jobs to choose from?

 

[bholler]

It isn't, of course. It does not seem to be comparable to the Princess or F3500 in several other ways, though. I mostly ignore stoves that are not on the EPA's tax credit list, partly for the tax credit, partly to burn less wood for a given amount of heat, and partly because I prefer low emissions.

The tax credit is a good reason to choose the princess or 3500. But the difference in efficency and emissions isn't going to be noticable at all.

 

[begreen]

The tax credit is a good reason to choose the princess or 3500. But the difference in efficency and emissions isn't going to be noticable at all.

That is now capped at $2000. There are several 3 cu ft stoves from Drolet that will provide an 8-12 hr burn. With the high prices that some dealers are asking right now for some stoves, the Drolet could be less expensive even with the tax credit applied. And the Drolet can be shipped, often at no charge. Same for the Englander 32-NC.

 

[Highbeam]

@BKVP Is it possible for me to purchase a Princess directly from BK? Most of the local BK dealers won't talk to me unless they are also doing the installation, and they won't install in my area. If I could purchase a stove it would remove a significant part of the cost of the up-front risk to the installer.

I bought my princess cash and carry from kitsap lumber in Bremerton. They forked it onto my pickup and the price was fine.

 

[NHWS]

Took several tries, but I eventually got through to Kitsap Lumber back in December. I can get the stove there. It's a long trip to bring it home, but every part of the stove purchase looks possible. I can pick up a stove most anywhere in the PNW if necessary. Have Subaru Outback plus trailer, will travel.

The problem is installation. I don't know enough to install it myself.

One of the remaining three installers I know of returned my call. The initial conversation went well. I was careful to mention the issues I've had with the last few installers (medical precautions, sufficient info in the bid, financial safety for both parties). They didn't seem to have any problem with any of it. A hopeful sign.

I'm also following up on kennyp2239's suggestions for researching the existing support box. Finding the parts is a long shot given the age of the existing stove, but there's a small chance that I can reuse the existing 8" Class A chimney.

It would mean a King (or a F5200) instead of a Princess in that location (horrors!). The stove would cost more, but the installation savings might be just about enough for me to swing having a pro install the second stove that the house plan needs.

 

[NHWS]

That is now capped at $2000. There are several 3 cu ft stoves from Drolet that will provide an 8-12 hr burn. With the high prices that some dealers are asking right now for some stoves, the Drolet could be less expensive even with the tax credit applied. And the Drolet can be shipped, often at no charge. Same for the Englander 32-NC.

Yeah - the tax credit change is painful. I went from just about able to install two stoves to wishing I could afford it.

Not familiar with Drolet.

Found their web site. They claim the 2020 EPA tax credit for some models, but none of them are mentioned on the EPA web site as 2020 certified. Their prices are attractive, though, even without the tax credit.

Same with Englander.

 

[begreen]

Drolet is the value line part of SBI, based out of Quebec, which also includes Osburn, Valcourt, Enerzone products, and now Englander.