Ashford 25 Insert - New Install/Operating Concerns

[slodo]

We just had a new BK Ashford 25 installed and the installers seemed knowledgeable and did a good job with the install from what I could tell. I had asked for a block-off plate and they said they couldn't fashion one with metal, but they noted that the previous installer just left the flue opening entirely uninsulated. They happily stuffed the flue opening extremely full with rockwool to seal the airflow. They inspected the SS liner and discovered it wasn't insulated for the final 5-6ft before the chimney cap. So they were thorough and seemed far more trustworthy than the previous installers.

The new insert is up and running since Friday and of course there is a learning curve involved here, but I have studied these inserts and read through a plethora of forum posts to understand how to operate it. I have read the instructions several times for both the Starting A Fire and the Reloading techniques. I have used my top-shelf reserve red oak that has been dried and covered for over 5yrs and was producing boiling hot heat in the Quadrafire Grand Voyager insert that was replaced with this BK Ashford 25.

The problems that I have immediately noted are the following:

1. Very Loose Door Gasket On side with the Door Handle

• ~60% of the side with the handle fails the dollar bill test, and it falls out quite easily with almost no resistance
• I had asked the installer if he had checked and he said he did the dollar-bill test, which clearly he didn't test this critical area
• He also said that the door has been adjusted at the factory and that it'll take awhile for the gasket to break-in before it seals better?
  • I find this statement to make little sense, as the gasket from factory should be at it's tightest/stiffest
  • Perhaps he's referring to the gasket on the other side of the door and when that becomes looser the portion near the door is expected to become tighter?
  • Regardless, he recommended not adjusting the door because other customer had over-firing issue after adjusting their door tighter

2. Jamming Bypass Door/Slide After Heat-up

• Opening the bypass door has been difficult since Friday
• The first fire it was able to open up, but required tremendous force to get open and even more to push back in
• After 2 or 3 fires, the bypass door is no longer able to be opened after the stove heats up
• The knob that you push/pull goes up and under the edge of the shroud, which is where it gets stuck after you start the fire
• Seems like an alignment problem and when the heat expands the metal, it becomes inoperable
• This makes it impossible to follow the actual Starting A Fire instructions in the manual

3. Thermostat Plate Doesn't Move When Adjusting Temperature Control

• I don't know if this is expected behavior, but I suspect it is not
• I watched this video from the BK factory where they review the Ashford 25 and show the thermostat
• The steel plate on the thermostat in the above video is loose and moves freely; when opening it, it returns to perfectly horizontal
• When I took my shroud off, I discovered my thermostat plate is stuck open at ~30 degrees and does not close
• It does not move freely and there is clearly something there that is keeping it from moving freely
• When moving the temperature rod, if I open the entire way, this plate opens to 30 degrees, but does not return when turning the temperature back down
• This essentially keeps it open 30 degrees from horizontal at all times

4. Burn Times and Heat Output

• Let's just say that I am extremely disappointed with this insert at the moment and my decision to go with BK over the QF/Osburn non-cat inserts
• Not only does it barely keep my home warm, it chews through my wood faster than my old non-cat insert by 3X
• I am loading it full to the brim, which represents almost a days worth of wood anyhow on my old QF insert
• It only puts out useful heat for the first few hours until it becomes so cool that the temps in the room begin to drop
• The flames are seemingly too wild at the lowest temperature setting (potentially due to thermostat plate issue?)
• I have managed a few 8hr+ burns, but as stated above, it is not usable heat after a few hours and just basically keeping some hot coals

I fully expect everyone to start questioning the wood MC and the loading techniques, and I will gladly answer them. However, I am certainly not new to burning a wood stove insert and operating air controls and learning how to fine-tune a burn with air control etc.

I will post some pictures/video in a follow-up post of a full load, the thermostat, inoperable bypass etc.

 

[stoveliker]

The remark that tightening the door leads to overfiring - only if the tightening is not done right. Making it tighter should lead to less overfiring. If one makes a mistake, then yes, it could lead to that.
If the dollar bill falls out, don't burn in it - it needs addressing.

The thermostat is an issue that needs a dealer/tech to have a look.
With that staying like this, you'll use more wood indeed. With a leaking door you will too.

5 year under roof oak should be perfect wood.

@BKVP many technical issues here (and I don't know the details of the inserts).

 

[begreen]

Sounds like it may have not had a proper, final quality control check at the factory. All issues are addressable, but should be done by a factory trained tech, not the new stove owner.

 

[kborndale]

So have you contacted the dealer with your issues?

 

[slodo]

So have you contacted the dealer with your issues?

Dealer is basically sending out the same guy who installed it and I'm not confident that he's knowledgeable enough on these units to address the above, especially with his comment on over-firing the unit by properly sealing the door gasket.

Honestly, after letting the dealer address and "fix" the issue with the ACC on my Quadrafire Grand Voyager that was just thrown out due to cracked steel air channel and broken ACC, I am very concerned about letting them address this.

I feel that I may have better resolution dealing with BK customer support over the phone.

 

[stoveliker]

Yes, call BK is good.
But I "hailed" @BKVP - he can help get you in touch with the right person for sure (or assist the dealer, if that's the best route). He knows this stuff, so I'd wait for him to appear here. I think he's here at least once a week.

 

[slodo]

Sounds like it may have not had a proper, final quality control check at the factory. All issues are addressable, but should be done by a factory trained tech, not the new stove owner.

This was my immediate thought as well, due to the fact that the stove was ordered in November and it was not able to be installed until Jan 9, as there was over 1mo backorder time on the BK units.

The dealer told me that BK was far behind on manufacturing because everyone was trying to get the 30% Tax credit before EOY. I felt that this led to them basically pushing these out too fast and dropping QC process in order to keep up.

 

[slodo]

Yes, call BK is good.
But I "hailed" @BKVP - he can help get you in touch with the right person for sure (or assist the dealer, if that's the best route). He knows this stuff, so I'd wait for him to appear here. I think he's here at least once a week.

Much appreciated, getting BKVP's input here was essentially the goal of the post

 

[fao1989]

We just had a new BK Ashford 25 installed and the installers seemed knowledgeable and did a good job with the install from what I could tell. I had asked for a block-off plate and they said they couldn't fashion one with metal, but they noted that the previous installer just left the flue opening entirely uninsulated. They happily stuffed the flue opening extremely full with rockwool to seal the airflow. They inspected the SS liner and discovered it wasn't insulated for the final 5-6ft before the chimney cap. So they were thorough and seemed far more trustworthy than the previous installers.

The new insert is up and running since Friday and of course there is a learning curve involved here, but I have studied these inserts and read through a plethora of forum posts to understand how to operate it. I have read the instructions several times for both the Starting A Fire and the Reloading techniques. I have used my top-shelf reserve red oak that has been dried and covered for over 5yrs and was producing boiling hot heat in the Quadrafire Grand Voyager insert that was replaced with this BK Ashford 25.

The problems that I have immediately noted are the following:

1. Very Loose Door Gasket On side with the Door Handle

• ~60% of the side with the handle fails the dollar bill test, and it falls out quite easily with almost no resistance
• I had asked the installer if he had checked and he said he did the dollar-bill test, which clearly he didn't test this critical area
• He also said that the door has been adjusted at the factory and that it'll take awhile for the gasket to break-in before it seals better?
  • I find this statement to make little sense, as the gasket from factory should be at it's tightest/stiffest
  • Perhaps he's referring to the gasket on the other side of the door and when that becomes looser the portion near the door is expected to become tighter?
  • Regardless, he recommended not adjusting the door because other customer had over-firing issue after adjusting their door tighter

2. Jamming Bypass Door/Slide After Heat-up

• Opening the bypass door has been difficult since Friday
• The first fire it was able to open up, but required tremendous force to get open and even more to push back in
• After 2 or 3 fires, the bypass door is no longer able to be opened after the stove heats up
• The knob that you push/pull goes up and under the edge of the shroud, which is where it gets stuck after you start the fire
• Seems like an alignment problem and when the heat expands the metal, it becomes inoperable
• This makes it impossible to follow the actual Starting A Fire instructions in the manual

3. Thermostat Plate Doesn't Move When Adjusting Temperature Control

• I don't know if this is expected behavior, but I suspect it is not
• I watched this video from the BK factory where they review the Ashford 25 and show the thermostat
• The steel plate on the thermostat in the above video is loose and moves freely; when opening it, it returns to perfectly horizontal
• When I took my shroud off, I discovered my thermostat plate is stuck open at ~30 degrees and does not close
• It does not move freely and there is clearly something there that is keeping it from moving freely
• When moving the temperature rod, if I open the entire way, this plate opens to 30 degrees, but does not return when turning the temperature back down
• This essentially keeps it open 30 degrees from horizontal at all times

4. Burn Times and Heat Output

• Let's just say that I am extremely disappointed with this insert at the moment and my decision to go with BK over the QF/Osburn non-cat inserts
• Not only does it barely keep my home warm, it chews through my wood faster than my old non-cat insert by 3X
• I am loading it full to the brim, which represents almost a days worth of wood anyhow on my old QF insert
• It only puts out useful heat for the first few hours until it becomes so cool that the temps in the room begin to drop
• The flames are seemingly too wild at the lowest temperature setting (potentially due to thermostat plate issue?)
• I have managed a few 8hr+ burns, but as stated above, it is not usable heat after a few hours and just basically keeping some hot coals

I fully expect everyone to start questioning the wood MC and the loading techniques, and I will gladly answer them. However, I am certainly not new to burning a wood stove insert and operating air controls and learning how to fine-tune a burn with air control etc.

I will post some pictures/video in a follow-up post of a full load, the thermostat, inoperable bypass etc.

Slodo,

Couple thoughts here in no particular order. I am also a newish BK A25 owner and very pleased with my experience. I wouldn’t judge the overall A25 experience until you have a chance to address the issues you raised. But I would get them addressed before you burn further. I went with BK because of their reputation and quality and surmise you will eventually be pleased with your decision.

• Quality Block off plate. I have one. It helps tremendously to retain heat - thanks to @mellow: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...lating-my-fireplace.75755/page-2#post-1635483
• Noted from your signature block you have a 30 foot chimney. Believe this is twice the recommended manufacturer height. Stands to reason it will draft harder, and burn faster.
• Defer to more knowledgeable folks about the other issues. But personally I wouldnt burn until the bypass functions properly, door seals and I have confidence in the thermostat and draft implications.
• Standing by for corrections from the veterans or BKVP. I’m hopeful the collective wisdom of this forum can assist you. It has helped me.

 

[reaperman1]

The flames are seemingly too wild at the lowest temperature setting (potentially due to thermostat plate issue?)

I have managed a few 8hr+ burns, but as stated above, it is not usable heat after a few hours and just basically keeping some hot coals

I have similar issues with my stove which is similar to yours in style. Even after a good charring, when I turn the dial down the stove gets a lot hotter and my stack temps rise to over 800 degrees. At this point the dial is within 1/16" of being fully closed. So the only option left is to shut the dial all of the way down which cools the stove and cat temps down quickly. I believe my issue is with the thermostat not closing the flapper when its suppose to. Its almost always in the same position I left in. The only time it closes is when the flapper is about 1/16" from being fully closed. Then after the stove is done going nuts for a couple hrs, it will close the flap. Then doesnt open it when it should and the stove cools to the point of no useable heat. So my flapper is basically used as a "key damper" I need to regulate, not a thermostat. Im in contact with the dealer who isnt local to try getting a different thermostat. I called them a while ago, then 4 days later the salesman called and said he has time to get the ball rolling, 4 day later? Then emailed me the next day asking for a video of the issue. Im not sure how to take a video of something that isnt working.

What has worked for me, burn smaller loads. I never put more than 3 splits (N/S) on the bottom of my stove for a overnight burn. (Everyone else with a BK loads them to the hilt. If I did, when the stove takes off when I turn the air down I would have a big problem) Then I set the flapper so its open about 1/4". I can see the flapper on my stove by looking thru an opening. So to me the dial means nothing. I monitor the flu temps with a Auber probe (a must, IMO). When I have nice flames I turn it down a bit more to keep the stack temps from getting too high. If the stove wants to take off and go crazy, I turn the dial up so some flames appear but not too many. This will cool the stove down a bit as it takes some work away from the cat. But a new stove with a new cat is known to get pretty hot until it gets broke in, thats normal from everything Ive read. Doing this gives me good heat and I will eventually close the flapper a bit more and I get decent burn times with these 3 splits. But I have to manually babysit the thermostat since doesnt want to do it itself. During the day, I put 2 longer splits in E/W and burn it like that. I get more heat with a small load than trying to damp down a bigger load. I can let it burn a bit hotter. But I'm home more in the winter as I adjust my schedule this time of year. But I can get 4 or so hours on 2 long red oak splits with good heat. Try to experiment with smaller loads and adjust according with the flapper than the dial. It sounds like you have front access to the flapper on your stove also. Good luck.

 

[BKVP]

Good morning all. Slodo, please pm me your dealership name and individual you are working with. Include your full contact info.

BKVP

 

[Tron]

So my flapper is basically used as a "key damper" I need to regulate, not a thermostat. Im in contact with the dealer who isnt local to try getting a different thermostat.

I think there's your problem: you need a flue damper, and not a different thermostat (I don't think there are different ones anyway).
The question most asked to people who have issues is:how tall is your stack?
If it's significantly over 20 feet (depends a bit on your elevation), you may have too much draft, which the poor thermostat is trying to compensate but failing at it. Unsurprisingly so.

Sure you can mitigate that a bit by building smaller fires, but then you're just addressing the symptoms and not the cause. And are missing out on a lot of the BK experience.

 

[reaperman1]

I think there's your problem: you need a flue damper, and not a different thermostat (I don't think there are different ones anyway).
The question most asked to people who have issues is:how tall is your stack?
If it's significantly over 20 feet (depends a bit on your elevation), you may have too much draft, which the poor thermostat is trying to compensate but failing at it. Unsurprisingly so.

Sure you can mitigate that a bit by building smaller fires, but then you're just addressing the symptoms and not the cause. And are missing out on a lot of the BK experience.

I dont want to steal this thread but Im at the minimum at 15 feet. I have thought of a key damper and appreciate your input.
Read the thread below for my post on this issue.

R

Thread 'Knob creaks and turns hard'

Dec 26, 2025

Does this mean the flapper isn’t working properly if the knob creeks and turns hard? Since day 1 of owning this stove, it has never operated as other BK owners swear by. I’m constantly moving the knob to adjust the output, mainly shutting it down to keep it from getting too hot. A while after reloading the stove, I’ll turn the knob down to keep the flu temps in range. An hour after the burn seems to settle, the cat temps will climb, the cat will glow and get over 1300 degrees (measured with a Auber probe). And the flapper will not have moved from where I initially set it. In fact it’s...

• reaperman1
• Replies: 45
• Forum: Blaze King

 

[slodo]

Good morning all. Slodo, please pm me your dealership name and individual you are working with. Include your full contact info.

BKVP

Thanks so much for coming to the rescue, @BKVP. I will shoot over a DM with the requested details.

 

[mellow]

Absolutely need to insulate that fireplace and install a blockoff plate if you want the heat to come out once you get the other issues fixed.

I like to show people this post, and urge them to get an ir gun on the brick outside as well to see how much heat is escaping:

Post in thread 'Finally got around to insulating my fireplace'

Dec 15, 2014

They say pictures are worth a million words so I thought I would let them do the talking.

Took these on Saturday, outdoor temp was in the lower 40's. Insert was cruising at around 1000 on the cat and 300 on the flue.

Overview shot of my exterior chimney:


This is a picture of my baseline temp, outside temps. 41


This is a picture of right above where the insert sits, heat rises so this was the warmest spot I could find, 43
I can live with 2 degree difference. Before insulating, this spot would have been around the same temp as the picture below around...

• mellow

• 

 

[mellow]

If you want to read on how I went through my SC25 (same guts) and fixed the thermostat grab some popcorn.

I did trace it down to a QC issue on BK's end, but Chris got me up and running after doing some trial and error, but this thread will also teach you about how the stove works.

Post in thread 'Blaze King Sirocco 25 insert'

Oct 3, 2017

The supplier had stuck a stop screw where they shouldn't have and the insert didn't go as low as it should. All new units from what I know are fixed. Check out my updated review a page back.

• mellow

 

[reaperman1]

If you want to read on how I went through my SC25 (same guts) and fixed the thermostat grab some popcorn.

I did trace it down to a QC issue on BK's end, but Chris got me up and running after doing some trial and error, but this thread will also teach you about how the stove works.

Post in thread 'Blaze King Sirocco 25 insert'

Oct 3, 2017

The supplier had stuck a stop screw where they shouldn't have and the insert didn't go as low as it should. All new units from what I know are fixed. Check out my updated review a page back.

• mellow

Mello, your right that was a long read. Are you saying when the thermostat knob is turned closed all of the way, it should still be opened up a little? And how about the heat from the stove getting below to the thermostat to close it. Ive often wondered how mine is suppose to close when its exposed to outside air and no cover? Boxer 25

 

[mellow]

The thermostat will close based on heat from above in the firebox, it will only close so much when cold. It is slow to react but based on input of heat it will gradually close the flap, it is intentionally slow so it can moderate air intake in a controlled fashion.

I didn't have any issues with it closing while running with the cover off but I am sure it might have throw it off a bit to be exposed to more air than it was designed for. All that heat from the insert above gets transferred to the thermostat housing which in turn opens or closes the bimetallic coil for the air flapper.

Picture of the whole thermostat housing, you can see how it is up against the bottom of the firebox.

 

[reaperman1]

The thermostat will close based on heat from above in the firebox, it will only close so much when cold. It is slow to react but based on input of heat it will gradually close the flap, it is intentionally slow so it can moderate air intake in a controlled fashion.

I didn't have any issues with it closing while running with the cover off but I am sure it might have throw it off a bit to be exposed to more air than it was designed for. All that heat from the insert above gets transferred to the thermostat housing which in turn opens or closes the bimetallic coil for the air flapper.

Picture of the whole thermostat housing, you can see how it is up against the bottom of the firebox.

View attachment 345274

Thanks, I’m able to completely shut my flapper closed with the knob on a cold or running stove. I was curious if that was normal or not. My stove has a factory uncovered flapper. But I see the silver box behind it must grab it’s heat from the firebox above it. It seems strange to grab heat from something that’s insulated by a bed of ashes and firebrick.

Below is what mine looks like with the front ash lip/valance removed.

 

[stoveliker]

I believe everyone can close the flapper fully even when cold.

 

[reaperman1]

I believe everyone can close the flapper fully even when cold.

Thats what I always thought. However I read in the Mellow's link from 2016 where BKVP, stated: "the blade should be at a 20 degree angle when the unit is room temp and thermostat knob is set to lowest setting". I realize thats on a 10 year old product and things have probably changed.

 

[stoveliker]

Folks (incl. me) can hear the flapper close. The position of the dial when it closes will change with temperature (because the coil spirals).

I don't know if you have a stop preventing from closing to get the EPA minimum of air flow. Other models have a hole in the flapper for that (so closing it makes it seated on the opening and the hole allows the air flow).

 

[reaperman1]

Folks (incl. me) can hear the flapper close. The position of the dial when it closes will change with temperature (because the coil spirals).

I don't know if you have a stop preventing from closing to get the EPA minimum of air flow. Other models have a hole in the flapper for that (so closing it makes it seated on the opening and the hole allows the air flow).

My flapper has no hole, it’s solid on both halves. So when it’s turned all of the way down, it’s like a closed door.

 

[mellow]

I don't think the technology has changed much in 10 years when it comes to the bimetallic coil. I am pretty sure I had to have heat on mine for it to fully close.