Maiden Voyage, VC Encore 2040

[Jason79er]

I'm very new to this forum, and to wood burning stoves , but I try to find answers to my questions before posting. I live in Louisiana so we don't get the harsh winters seen elsewhere, but it still gets into the 20's and 30's, and when you add humidity, it seeps into your bones. Anyway, I have a new construction farm house and we opted for the VC Encore 2040 as being both more utilitarian and "farmhousy". I wanted to run things by this group to get your opinions.

I recently did my three initial burns, getting the stove up to 200, 400, 650 degrees respectively using a stovetop thermometer, before closing the air intake and letting her burn down. My flu gauge seemed to follow suit as expected with its temps up to about 400. CAT levels were lower, but of course I had the bypass open during these burn-ins, and left the air intake wide-open. I also opened the bottom ashtray to get the fire going initially and up to temperature, but have since read not to do that b/c of overfiring concerns. My flu pipe is 6" diameter, 2' of single wall inside, before converting to double wall and exiting the house vertically (see pics). Total height from stove top to chimeny cap is approximately 20'.

SO onto the maiden voyage. I'm using split pecan wood with MR around 15-20%. Temp outside are 29-45 degrees today, breezy. I seem to have a very good draft, in fact when I lit a little new paper at the base of the flue pipe (inside the stove), it burned a few seconds and then got sucked up flu pipe. It wasn't a lot of paper, and there's no cresote up there because everything is brand new. I'm not sure if that means there's too much draft? I did a top down, E/W wood stack (about half the box if full), this time cracking open the front loading door for 10-20 mins to get the fire going instead of the ash tray. At about 400 degrees, I closed the door, but left the air intake wide open. When the stove reached about 550 degrees I lowered the air intake a bit to get it down to 500. During this time, my flu pipe thermometer was lagging behind at around 150-200 for some reason, so I opened air intake 100% again.

At this point, I closed the bypass to engage the CAT for the first time ever. It's been running about an hour now. My stovetop was a bit over 500, and is slowly comign down. Flu still not getting much past 150. The CAT temp went up to about 550 upon initial bypass engagement, stalled, and is slowly dropping- currently at 496. I see active flames and can hear a slight "whisper" which I assume is the air intake. I'm getting moderate amounts of white smoke comign out the chimney cap. So it seems like the stove is not holding its heat, and that the CAT is not active. I thought maybe i put the CAT probe in too far (AT 100) and was getting in accurate temperatures, but the white smoke is another tell.

Are there any thoughts on my overall setup, or obvious reasons as to why my temps are dropping and CAT didn't activate? I'm going to add more wood and see if that helps.. which now seems kind of obvious. Thanks!

 

[Jason79er]

Updated, I opened the bypass, added more wood, and opened the air intake. Stovetop got back to 550, so after a few minutes I engaged the CAT. CAT jumped up to about 700, then stalled. My stovetemp kept going up, past towards 650, so I closed off the air intake. When I did that, CAT temp actually rose a bit to 750, but is dropping again. Currently at 640. Flu temp during all of this hasn't budged at all, staying right around 200. I put it on the stovetop to make sure it worked, and it started climbing - so I guess it works.
It seems to be holding steady right now with Flu: 200; Stovetop: 600; CAT: 635. Still some smoke coming out the chimney cap, but not as much as earlier. I thought the CAT would get up to 1100 or so?

Also, something's up with the AT-100 thermometer. It randomly goes to EEEEE (error), even if no one touches it, and the connections seem finicky. I wired them the way described on these forums. I will have to check it when the stove is cool.

 

[RedOakON]

Good evening Jason,

For what this is worth coming from a guy with a non-catalytic VC Dauntless, the white smoke is as you said a clear indicator of a lack of temperature within the stove. This is usually due to an insufficient coal bed. Starting from cold with an inch of ash throughout the entire bottom of my firebox, it takes at least 45 minutes to develop the uniform stove temperature and depth of coal bed to be able to close the bypass and not have white smoke form. In my previous VC Intrepid it took 30 minutes to effect the same. I would guess to say that it will probably take an hour for your Encore to reach the same conditions as it has an even larger firebox surface area and has yet more cast iron mass to bring up to temperature.

Furthermore, while the quality of the coal bed is essential for these stoves to operate properly, it is equally important that the coal bed and particularly the ashes not block the lower back firebox outlet and secondary air inlet ports as it can restrict or entirely block off the flow of exhaust gases and secondary air to the catalyst in your case (and the secondary burn system in my case) and cause white - low temperature - smoke to form.

You may find your local VC dealer immensely helpful in getting your stove to perform for you as he/she presumably knows the wood type and the stove very well and can look over your exact setup to see if anything is incompatible with the proper operation of a VC Encore. Early on in my experience with my Dauntless, my VC dealer said "In general wood burning is an art rather than a science and a Vermont Castings will especially bring meaning to that statement. Good thing you bought a Dauntless cause you'll need to be."

A very helpful tip my VC dealer gave me was to place the stovetop thermometer centered between the rear of the cast iron griddle/lid and the front of the flue which is in contradiction to the placement specified in the manual. The reason I was given for this change of placement is the temperature usually is higher there and also is usually more indicative of the general heat within the main body of the stove as the cast iron is considerably thicker there than compared to the griddle/lid.

I hope some of this helps and best of luck to you.

 

[Jason79er]

Good evening Jason,

For what this is worth coming from a guy with a non-catalytic VC Dauntless, the white smoke is as you said a clear indicator of a lack of temperature within the stove. This is usually due to an insufficient coal bed. Starting from cold with an inch of ash throughout the entire bottom of my firebox, it takes at least 45 minutes to develop the uniform stove temperature and depth of coal bed to be able to close the bypass and not have white smoke form. In my previous VC Intrepid it took 30 minutes to effect the same. I would guess to say that it will probably take an hour for your Encore to reach the same conditions as it has an even larger firebox surface area and has yet more cast iron mass to bring up to temperature.

Furthermore, while the quality of the coal bed is essential for these stoves to operate properly, it is equally important that the coal bed and particularly the ashes not block the lower back firebox outlet and secondary air inlet ports as it can restrict or entirely block off the flow of exhaust gases and secondary air to the catalyst in your case (and the secondary burn system in my case) and cause white - low temperature - smoke to form.

You may find your local VC dealer immensely helpful in getting your stove to perform for you as he/she presumably knows the wood type and the stove very well and can look over your exact setup to see if anything is incompatible with the proper operation of a VC Encore. Early on in my experience with my Dauntless, my VC dealer said "In general wood burning is an art rather than a science and a Vermont Castings will especially bring meaning to that statement. Good thing you bought a Dauntless cause you'll need to be."

A very helpful tip my VC dealer gave me was to place the stovetop thermometer centered between the rear of the cast iron griddle/lid and the front of the flue which is in contradiction to the placement specified in the manual. The reason I was given for this change of placement is the temperature usually is higher there and also is usually more indicative of the general heat within the main body of the stove as the cast iron is considerably thicker there than compared to the griddle/lid.

I hope some of this helps and best of luck to you.

Thanks for the reply. The air holes in the lower, rear may have indeed been blocked by ash, I'm not sure. Unfortunately my local dealer is bascially useless. They started carrying VC about a year ago and "aren't as familiar" with it as what they used to carry; I've had little success getting answers from them during install. I tried another fire with no luck- will update below.

 

[Jason79er]

2nd Update - I tried another fire from scratch today. Before starting, I checked the CAT to make sure there was no ash or debris in it. This time I let it burn with bypass open, air intake wide open for about an hour. I added more wood, and let it go another 10 minutes or so. Stovetop was around 650, Flu was around 250-300, and it looked like a decent bed of coals. To me, everything was ready for the bypass, so I closed it and crossed my fingers.

CAT went up to about 500 and stalled, even though ST was still reading 650ish. I cracked the door open and got the CAT up to around 750, at which point my Auber AT100 digital thermometer went to EEEEE, like it did yesterday. I may have damaged it during install, when I was pushing my stove back into place? It reads ambient temps fine, and seems to do fine up around 750, so I don't know.- but that's incredibly folking annyoying. I adjusted the wires and got it to come back on, at 745 degrees. Stovetop was still around 650- getting close to the "red zone" on the gugage. The next 45 minutes was a series of me opening/closing the air intake, cracking the door open, adding wood, doing a fire dance, and sacrificing small animals. However, the CAT still did not activate. I still had white smoke comign from my chimney, and couldn't get CAT temps over 750ish.

Right now I have an open bypass, air closed all the way down. Flu is 300, CAT is around 400, and the ST has climbed to over 700, in the red zone. So far I'm very disappointed in this entire experience.

 

[Kevin Weis]

Sounds to me your coal bed is/was insufficient. As said the coalbed is what makes the VC run okay. Otherwise you will struggle. The coal bed needs to be 3 inches thick in front of the combuster with burning splits on top before the cat is engaged. As said it will take at least a 1/2 hour from cold to get the coal bed to this condition to get the cat activated. VC's have a long learning curve. Don't deviate from the manual guidelines for operation. This includes wood MC and even the size of the splits themselves. Sounds like your draft is okay but the VC's are draft needy stoves and a weak draft will not cut it with it's down draft design.

 

[Jason79er]

Sounds to me your coal bed is/was insufficient. As said the coalbed is what makes the VC run okay. Otherwise you will struggle. The coal bed needs to be 3 inches thick in front of the combuster with burning splits on top before the cat is engaged. As said it will take at least a 1/2 hour from cold to get the coal bed to this condition to get the cat activated. VC's have a long learning curve. Don't deviate from the manual guidelines for operation. This includes wood MC and even the size of the splits themselves. Sounds like your draft is okay but the VC's are draft needy stoves and a weak draft will not cut it with it's down draft design.

Thanks Kevin. I gave it about an hour last time, but next time I'll build up the coal bed more. The ST temperatures were in the right range, so maybe that's what it was.

 

[Kevin Weis]

No worries. I think there is a misnomer out there that if the STT is north of 500 then there is enough fire/coal bed to light the cat. The STT can reach 500 way before there is enough of a coal bed to light a cat in the VC.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Thanks Kevin. I gave it about an hour last time, but next time I'll build up the coal bed more. The ST temperatures were in the right range, so maybe that's what it was.

Im curious how it's going for you?
I am a new VC Dauntless owner and finding that most of us VC owners are struggling. There are some that simply enjoy the challenge or wouldnt be caught dead saying they made an expensive mistake, and even fewer that are 'having no problems'. The latter of which I think probably havent inspected their flue pipes yet to see how much creosote these things create, or the big warning signs that their glass is covered in stick thick black goo using well seasoned wood.
Im actually afraid to use mine when Im not going to be there all day, which has been rare lately...so it has sat. But I will say when it's running well, the only thing Im upset about is the glass not getting fully cleaned off from a good heat.

The fact that you have to push coals toward the back wall and somehow not cover those little holes....is all you need to know about these stoves.

Best advice I can give you is to follow the instruction manual to a T. Get a kindling fire going, dont put the STT on the griddle put it where suggested in here from another poster. Once that kindling fire burns down, add 3-4 smaller splits and let that burn down. It really takes alot to bring the cast iron mass up to temp throughout the entire body. Once those 3-4 splits burn down fairly well to coals, you probably wont feel much heat coming from the sides. After that, add 3-4 medium size pieces and let that catch and get the STT back up to 550ish. Then you can start backing that down and either wait for that to get to coals and load it full of wood but never run this stove (with or without the cat) at 400 degrees or lower.

 

[Kevin Weis]

Im curious how it's going for you?
I am a new VC Dauntless owner and finding that most of us VC owners are struggling. There are some that simply enjoy the challenge or wouldnt be caught dead saying they made an expensive mistake, and even fewer that are 'having no problems'. The latter of which I think probably havent inspected their flue pipes yet to see how much creosote these things create, or the big warning signs that their glass is covered in stick thick black goo using well seasoned wood.
Im actually afraid to use mine when Im not going to be there all day, which has been rare lately...so it has sat. But I will say when it's running well, the only thing Im upset about is the glass not getting fully cleaned off from a good heat.

The fact that you have to push coals toward the back wall and somehow not cover those little holes....is all you need to know about these stoves.

Best advice I can give you is to follow the instruction manual to a T. Get a kindling fire going, dont put the STT on the griddle put it where suggested in here from another poster. Once that kindling fire burns down, add 3-4 smaller splits and let that burn down. It really takes alot to bring the cast iron mass up to temp throughout the entire body. Once those 3-4 splits burn down fairly well to coals, you probably wont feel much heat coming from the sides. After that, add 3-4 medium size pieces and let that catch and get the STT back up to 550ish. Then you can start backing that down and either wait for that to get to coals and load it full of wood but never run this stove (with or without the cat) at 400 degrees or lower.

I understand your frustration. My Intrepid flexburn is running better than previously last year. So what did I do to make it run better? I increased the draft some by changing out some older stove pipe and moving the stove a few inches closer to the vertical stack. I have better seasoned wood this year with a MC averaging around 15% or lower. And I've kept my coal bed deeper with bigger coals than previously at reloads. That may mean reloading every two hours or so. The constant you can keep the coal bed with depth and heat the better. The VC's are draft needy stoves by design with they're downdraft airflow setups. The manual for the Intrepid specifies .03 - .065 water weight draft during running temps for it to function as intended. This is in the installation manual not the operation manual. I'm going to measure mi e shortly to see what draft I've got with a manometer. I had a Encore 2040 before the Intrepid as well. After four years or so with VC's with they're downdraft designs the running of they're stoves is dependent on these three things very strictly. If any one of those isn't right you will struggle with its operation. The Dauntless is a think just a big sister to the Intrepid and the airflow pattern I think is the same or very similar. The bigger Encore actually is a double downdraft design in the airflow. Down up down then back up through the cat. One thing to remember with the flexburns is the secondary burn is not with the cat, it's with air inflow (refractory with the holes at the bottom) at the lower end of the combuster and the cat is an additional treteriary treatment above and beyond what's needed to meet EPA requirements. Hence the cat is actually an option to use, not a requirement. To not use the cat may improve the draft through the stove but burn times may suffer some or not. I think maintaining a three inch coal bed in the stove cannot be overemphasized enough. Doesn't have to be all banked up against the combuster but some should be near it at all times. When going through the manual see how many times they mention the coal bed. So I'm still working/learning the Intrepid with I think trying to improve the draft more and getting the glass to stay cleaner longer. I think the double doors with the airflow on either side colliding with each other I. The middle is a hindrance to keeping the glass clean by design but that's just IMO.

 

[GrumpyDad]

I understand your frustration. My Intrepid flexburn is running better than previously last year. So what did I do to make it run better? I increased the draft some by changing out some older stove pipe and moving the stove a few inches closer to the vertical stack. I have better seasoned wood this year with a MC averaging around 15% or lower. And I've kept my coal bed deeper with bigger coals than previously at reloads. That may mean reloading every two hours or so. The constant you can keep the coal bed with depth and heat the better. The VC's are draft needy stoves by design with they're downdraft airflow setups. The manual for the Intrepid specifies .03 - .065 water weight draft during running temps for it to function as intended. This is in the installation manual not the operation manual. I'm going to measure mi e shortly to see what draft I've got with a manometer. I had a Encore 2040 before the Intrepid as well. After four years or so with VC's with they're downdraft designs the running of they're stoves is dependent on these three things very strictly. If any one of those isn't right you will struggle with its operation. The Dauntless is a think just a big sister to the Intrepid and the airflow pattern I think is the same or very similar. The bigger Encore actually is a double downdraft design in the airflow. Down up down then back up through the cat. One thing to remember with the flexburns is the secondary burn is not with the cat, it's with air inflow (refractory with the holes at the bottom) at the lower end of the combuster and the cat is an additional treteriary treatment above and beyond what's needed to meet EPA requirements. Hence the cat is actually an option to use, not a requirement. To not use the cat may improve the draft through the stove but burn times may suffer some or not. I think maintaining a three inch coal bed in the stove cannot be overemphasized enough. Doesn't have to be all banked up against the combuster but some should be near it at all times. When going through the manual see how many times they mention the coal bed. So I'm still working/learning the Intrepid with I think trying to improve the draft more and getting the glass to stay cleaner longer. I think the double doors with the airflow on either side colliding with each other I. The middle is a hindrance to keeping the glass clean by design but that's just IMO.

you lost me on the last couple of sentences, but everything you said up to that point was pretty spot on with what Ive experienced.

My best operation is just adding 3-4 splits and running it on medium.

 

[Kevin Weis]

On the VC stoves especially the smaller ones I think often the stoves are overloaded. I'm thinking the max should be three or four medium (3" or so diameter) splits. The manual has a few words about overloading the stove and they kind of warn about it. I think the tendency to overload is due to an effort to extend the burn time especially at night. Piling wood in there to the top of the doors is more wood than should be in there IMO but I've seen some videos that encourage this. Others stoves can handle loading to the gills just fine but I don't think the VC's will work well with this loading but again just IMO.