Main Circulator Upgrade

Tennman Posted By Tennman, Jan 19, 2017 at 4:43 PM

  1. Tennman

    Tennman
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Mar 4, 2009
    971
    128
    Loc:
    Southern Tenn
    Well hey guys!!! I just can't say enough how pleased I am with our stick wood and/or pellet boiler solution. One indicator is that I'm not here all the time asking you guys to save my butt! If there's interest I'd be glad to share the joys of the freedom to be lazy or to start a fire. The Windhager is just amazing. There must be a 100:1 ash volume difference between very seasoned wood in the BioMass and pellets.

    Now... Our Taco 0013 has been working reliably for 7 or 8 years and think it's time to have a spare on hand. I'm astonished how quiet the two pumps in our loading units are. You get your ear down there near them and just can't tell they're running. Not so the 0013. I'll start researching but just wanted to drop in, say hello, and maybe get some pump brand recommendations.

    Happy New Year!
     
  2. E Yoder

    E Yoder
    Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Jan 27, 2017
    104
    9
    Loc:
    Floyd, VA
    I'd look into ECM circs. Quiet and less wattage.

    Personally I've stuck with B&G and found them quieter than Taco. Bigger pumps are louder though and depending on where it's running in it's curve it can get loud. It's partially the piping, etc.
     
  3. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 5, 2005
    9,713
    772
    Loc:
    Sand Lake, NY
    Hi! I have several B&G Ecocirc ECM pumps. Not the auto kind, the kind you can adjust the speed infinitely. Not sure if they have enough ooomph. I'm not positive, but I think when you step up in size in the current crop of ECM pumps, price goes up big league. It's just an impression I have though.
     
  4. peakbagger

    peakbagger
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Jul 11, 2008
    3,322
    796
    Loc:
    Northern NH
    Generally a noisy pump is an unhappy pump. Every pump has a happy spot which is the point of maximum efficiency which is combination of the right pressure differential and flow. You can force it to meet other operating points but it is less happy and less efficient. The lost power due to efficiency gets turned into one of two things heat or noise. ECM pumps operate at multiple speeds so they can be optimized to be happy at several different operating points and thus that's why they are so popular. Ideally if someone were to install pressure taps across a pump and have an accurate measurement of flow the pump could be optimized to match the load and things would be quieter.
     
  5. E Yoder

    E Yoder
    Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Jan 27, 2017
    104
    9
    Loc:
    Floyd, VA
    That's a good explanation. I see grossly oversized circs on small piping way to often .

    Sent from my HTCD100LVW using Tapatalk
     
  6. maple1

    maple1
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Sep 15, 2011
    7,714
    1,349
    Loc:
    Nova Scotia
    Highly recommend a Grundfos Alpha.

    Don't know if it meets your needs or not though - comparison of pump curves should tell the tale, although also don't know how well the 0013 matched your needs which should also be part of the story.

    Then we could also get into trying to analyze your entire system to come up with a pump & GPM, but don't think I'm up for that....
     
  7. Tennman

    Tennman
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Mar 4, 2009
    971
    128
    Loc:
    Southern Tenn
    Thanks all. To refresh, our loop from the main circi pump is about 340-350 feet of 1.25" pex. Head loss calcs and gpm pointed to the 0013. The only indication that the pump size was about right was the deltaT across the HX for 40*F was on the money. Now with a well working system and more money than I had 8 years ago I like the idea of adding pressure ports and a variable speed pump. Not sure if variable speed ECM was available back when we did our original install. An ECM that I can tune and pressure ports sounds ideal. Agree noisy pump indicates it's unhappy. Before I added storage the pump ran continuously from Thanksgiving to March. The Grundfos on one of loading units is just stupid quiet. As usual all great suggestions, variable speed with pressure ports. I don't want to go down from the 0013's capacity so will look for an ECM wth the Taco's max and figure out how to compute gpm from the pressure drop. I hope Grundfos makes a bigger pump. Will also look at B&G and Taco. The Taco has worked perfectly, just noisy, but that could be my fault. Regardless, it is a critical single point failure, so want to upgrade and make easily swappable. Thanks all.

    Don't drop in as much anymore. Seems the activity is down from 7-8 years ago. Is this because of lower oil prices? Where'd all the EKO folks go? Best wishes.
     
  8. TCaldwell

    TCaldwell
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Oct 26, 2007
    858
    80
    Loc:
    860-868-9014 h 203 948 0864 c nw corner ct.
    Good thing you have more money, a ecm pump to match a 0013 will likely cost more than your first car!
     
  9. Tennman

    Tennman
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Mar 4, 2009
    971
    128
    Loc:
    Southern Tenn
    Cool!!! That would be awesome TC! It was 1958 Chevy with a 348 4 barrel that got about 6 mpg for $150 in 1967! I sure hope your right. ;)
     
  10. TCaldwell

    TCaldwell
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Oct 26, 2007
    858
    80
    Loc:
    860-868-9014 h 203 948 0864 c nw corner ct.
    My guess is about 10 times that car, hope I'm wrong
     
  11. velvetfoot

    velvetfoot
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Dec 5, 2005
    9,713
    772
    Loc:
    Sand Lake, NY
    Can you add a couple of cheap ecm pumps in series?
     
  12. E Yoder

    E Yoder
    Member 2.
    NULL
    

    Jan 27, 2017
    104
    9
    Loc:
    Floyd, VA
    Maybe two Alphas in series? That would double head pressure... Kind of ignorant looking though. That might be more in the price range of replacing a 0013. That's a big circ pushing a lot of pipe.
    Edit- oops, just noticed velvetfoot posted the same.

    Sent from my HTCD100LVW using Tapatalk
     
  13. Buzz Saw

    Buzz Saw
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Jan 18, 2014
    502
    78
    Loc:
    Attica, Ohio
    @Tennman , did you ever find a pump to fit your application? I'm in a similar situation with a long run and if I don't have to reinvent the wheel I won't. Thanks
     
  14. Tennman

    Tennman
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Mar 4, 2009
    971
    128
    Loc:
    Southern Tenn
    Sorry... That replacement was put on back burner for the Summer. Fixing other equipment now! I'll re-engage next month to get ready for the Fall. I'll post what I do. It will be one big pump again when I do it. I've got isolation valves on either side of the pump so the replacement will go there. I may call Heaterman and get his 2 cents.
     
  15. heaterman

    heaterman
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Oct 16, 2007
    3,373
    626
    Loc:
    Falmouth, Michigan
    Hey Tennman! How's things?

    That 340-350' you referenced...is that one way or the total length of the loop out and back?
    Does it just circulate through a primary manifold in your house?
    And what does it connect to in your boiler room?
     

Share This Page