Massachusetts passes sweeping climate law

[begreen]

This new bill covers a lot of territory from EV mandates and incentives, to big changes in renewable grid energy contracts, to major infrastructure changes. It will be interesting to see if this becomes a model for other states the way the state health insurance plan became a model for the Affordable Care Act.

Massachusetts Enacts A Climate Law Of Its Own - CleanTechnica

Massachusetts has enacted a new law that will bring more renewable energy and electric vehicles to its residents.

cleantechnica.com

 

[Ashful]

Nice! Good for them.

In my distopian future, muscle cars are treated like fur coats, with owners afraid to take them out among the general public.

 

[begreen]

No worries, Dodge will continue to make toys for boys that excite. Actually the Charger is a good name for an EV.

DODGE EV will make “a noise you can’t imagine” | Dodge Developments

 

[SpaceBus]

Nice! Good for them.

In my distopian future, muscle cars are treated like fur coats, with owners afraid to take them out among the general public.

Kind of like early 70's/60's and older cars are now, especially rare big block Mopars. There are loads of classic cars that only come out for shows. A friend's family has a tri-5 Chevy and a big block bubble top Impala, they are rarely driven. I doubt most commuter cars will have the same following.

 

[stoveliker]

Lol, Freudian typo in that piece:

"Used cars with infernal combustion engines .."

 

[begreen]

Saw that, pretty sure it was intentional.

 

[Ashful]

No worries, Dodge will continue to make toys for boys that excite. Actually the Charger is a good name for an EV.

DODGE EV will make “a noise you can’t imagine” | Dodge Developments

Yeah, saw a long write up on them last week. Not sure what to think of Dodge adding a sound system for fake exhaust noise. Seems to me like an identity crisis. If you're going electric, go all in... don't try to make an electric car sound like a fake muscle car. It just won't age well, IMO.

But one thing is for sure, the Hellcat EV is going to need to be mind-bending fast, lest it be called a failure. Dodge has a curated an exhaust-sniffing fanbase that won't be easy to swing over to EV's, without it being something absolutely sublime.

 

[Solarguy3500]

Some good solar provisions in the bill as well.

It raises the system size that is exempt from the net metering cap allocation process from 10 kW to 25 kW AC. With so many people getting heat pumps, EVs, etc, that 10 kW limit was outdated. Now systems up to 25 kW AC will get almost the full retail value for net metering credits. Systems over 25 kW AC can get net metering credits worth 60% of retail rates, which still pencils out pretty good in most cases. These systems will now have an annual cash out at wholesale rate if they carry excess net metering credits beyond a year.

Eliminates in most cases an annoying rule that has been around for years that said you could only have 1 net meter per parcel of land, the "Single Parcel Rule".

The wrinkle is that the DPU has to promulgate the new rules and the utilities have to update their interconnection tariffs, so it will likely be several months or a year before the solar provisions get implemented.

 

[peakbagger]

The problem is who pays for it?. Most of the current incentives are paid by the electrical consumers. Solar is great stuff in the right place, but many homes are unsuitable for it as they need an unobstructed view of the south. Renters, condo owners and members of HOA's are usually restricted on solar options and they tend to pay higher electric bills or indirectly the costs are passed on through the rent. Fees to subsidize the incentives are usually tied to usage and most studies I have seen is that the brunt of the fees are paid by lower income folks who tend to be in rental housing.

I on occasion work with developers and their goal in life is find the loopholes and make money off them and there are most likely a lot of great loopholes to take advantage of.

Another aspect is personal experience is that the grid in cities with a lot of underground infrastructure just can not be expanded very easilly to take on the extra load.

It is disappointing that they excluded biomass power plants as renewable. They most likely used the flawed Manomet study to justify it. The reality was the reason for the study was to justify a NIMBY policy to keep new biomass power plants out of the state. The concept for a new method of selecting new power generation sources is also a great way for political influence to sneak into the process. Billions will be spent on new generation so it is a tempting target to try to lobby the process to grab the golden ring.

 

[woodgeek]

Fascinating.

Things I noticed:
1. EV incentives are OK. Both for purchasing new EVs (capped at $55k MSRP) and installing 4 (yawn) DCFCs on the Mass Pike. How does the Mass Pike not already have DCFCs Massachusetts? Oh yeah, I drove my 22 Bolt to Cape Cod this summer and there was ONE DCFC on the Cape. In Hyannis. I DCFC'ed a little longer on the mainland, skipped it and just plugged in my Bolt overnight at my rental house.

2. LOVE the 2025 ban on nat gas installs in new construction (with some exceptions for low income communities). This the governor balked at (no surprise), but signed anyway. This could ultimately be, hands down, the most impactful aspect of this bill. The nat gas distribution network in the eastern cities (esp Boston and Philly) is ancient and SUPER leaky. You can drive a methane sensor around town and detect methane EVERYWHERE. Obv a potent greenhouse gas. And gas combustion indoors is the major indoor pollutant (other than smokers), so a big health win too. I AM afraid that those crazy Yankees will just install more new heating oil units to compensate... I assume that is still legal , if not encouraged, LOL. Watch this space.

3. Eliminate price caps for offshore wind, and take away the National Grid and Eversource role in bid selection. Uh, OK. The caps were put IN because in the aftermath of the decade long Cape Wind fiasco, the next bidder paid off the government officials to ram through a contract that had a 30 year, $0.30/kWh contract price (plus inflation) without adequate public comment. And got killed by a whistle-blower. Yet more evidence of deep corruption around electricity pricing in New England. Now that other states are writing contracts for offshore wind with reasonable prices per kWh, maybe Massachusetts can finally play catch up... with its amazing resource. Read the fine print on those contracts yankees... don't get burned.

4. Solar: Meh. I am not a big fan of rooftop solar in a HCOL built environment. If it gets more farmers to put in bigger systems on their land, great. Every sq foot of solar installed at top $$ on somebody's roof will eventually displace low cost solar installed by an investor or utility on a low cost site, 5-10 years from now, due to load mgmt issues. I would've liked it better if it were a rooftop solar requirement in new construction (bc its cheaper), with some extra supports for low-income housing. But I suppose that would exacerbate the housing shortage (and low-income housing shortage) up there.

 

[Ashful]

So much talk of "the grid" not being up to the task, over the last two pages of the Green Room. I'm not sure I buy it. Peak demand per capita will continue to trend downward, and localized generation (eg. solar) will offer increasing offset to long-haul demand. Smart charging of PEV's will continue to reduce peak-to-average demand ratio. If anything, I see the severity of demand on the grid decreasing with regard to everything except heating and cooling, but even there, efficiencies are always improving.

Storage continues to be an issue, but that's nothing new. Storage has been the issue since construction of the first nukes, more than a half century ago. Solar, wind... they only augment an existing shortcoming. PEV's may never completely fill that gap, but a forecast 160 million of them sure seem to have the potential to put a serious dent in that.

I AM afraid that those crazy Yankees will just install more new heating oil units to compensate... I assume that is still legal , if not encouraged, LOL. Watch this space.

I highly doubt it. At least around here, every cheap McMansion and development house built for bottom dollar is heated and cooled by heat pump, only. Some high-end homes still get oil, but last I checked, that made up something like only 6% of the new home market.

The higher cost of installing a separate hydronic oil-fired heating system, PLUS a now-obligatory ducted cooling system in a new home, is going to keep oil relegated to only those who care enough and can afford to avoid the misery of living under a heat pump in January.

 

[SpaceBus]

Yeah, saw a long write up on them last week. Not sure what to think of Dodge adding a sound system for fake exhaust noise. Seems to me like an identity crisis. If you're going electric, go all in... don't try to make an electric car sound like a fake muscle car. It just won't age well, IMO.

But one thing is for sure, the Hellcat EV is going to need to be mind-bending fast, lest it be called a failure. Dodge has a curated an exhaust-sniffing fanbase that won't be easy to swing over to EV's, without it being something absolutely sublime.

Turns out customers like the noise. Many ICE cars have been pumping synthetic or real engine noises into the cabin for years now. Even the old Mustang GT had a pipe coming off the intake so you could hear some induction noise in the cab. Rolls, and their parent company BMW, had to add a lot of synthetic engine noises into their larger cars because people found them to be "disconcertingly quiet" or something like that. Seriously, tons of cars have added sound. I'm personally not a fan myself and find it a bit weird and disingenuous, but it's here to stay.

 

[woodgeek]

I highly doubt it. At least around here, every cheap McMansion and development house built for bottom dollar is heated and cooled by heat pump, only. Some high-end homes still get oil, but last I checked, that made up something like only 6% of the new home market.

As a former New Englander, I would beg to differ. The high prices of kWh and gas therms in New England has kept heating oil usage up there quite popular. Oil is 6% of new installs nationwide, but last time I checked the EIA, nearly all of them were in New England.

The Mid-Atlantic (our area) also had a lot of oil for decades (it was how my whole neighborhood was set up in 1960, and why I don't have a gas main to connect to). A lot of oil systems have been ripped out over the last 15 years, and rarely applied to new construction. Not so true further north, due to the much higher costs of alternatives.

 

[Ashful]

Oil is 6% of new installs, but I think nearly all of them are in New England, where the % is shockingly high.

Ah... the devil is in the details! I knew the broad stat's, but wasn't aware of the weighting toward NE.

Here, only those of us "lucky" enough to have an older home have oil heating, the reason most often cited is cost. It's just cheaper for builders to install a single air-source heat pump, with most folks buying primarily on dollars per square foot and kitchen surface materials, ignoring the quality and function of most mechanical systems.

 

[peakbagger]

They are not banning natural gas, just residential. I am hopefully commissioning a new natural gas CHP tomorrow. Its going to be around a long time. If have been involved with 6 CHP plants in Mass. Man y of the hospitals and the big factories in mass have CHP. The nat gas companies really do not want residential unless its on an existing supply line and they spend the bare minimum to maintain them, they want commercial and institutional. I did one project up in central mass where the utility needed to replace a few miles of pipe to support it. There is also something called Renewable Natural Gas which will use the existing natural gas infrastructure. Its basically landfill gas that is cleaned up and injected into the natural gas system.

 

[GrumpyDad]

This new bill covers a lot of territory from EV mandates and incentives, to big changes in renewable grid energy contracts, to major infrastructure changes. It will be interesting to see if this becomes a model for other states the way the state health insurance plan became a model for the Affordable Care Act.

Massachusetts Enacts A Climate Law Of Its Own - CleanTechnica

Massachusetts has enacted a new law that will bring more renewable energy and electric vehicles to its residents.

cleantechnica.com

As someone that has worked in the solar field for awhile early on, I can say that as homer said 'solar is a pipe dream'. You really need a big solar array to produce energy worth mentioning. It is still very costly, and it is costly to maintain. It is an option though, if the effort is put into it to make it more affordable, and to advance the tech more. MASS doesnt exactly get a ton of sun. Wind is another thought, but you REALLY need to consider how big of a farm you need to power a small town. It's alot.

Fossil fuels are the absolute most affordable and efficient means of energy today. There's no doubt.

Americans have an insatiable need for energy. There only ONE way to really solve that right now and in the immediate 20-30 years, and that's nuclear power.

 

[woodgeek]

Here, only those of us "lucky" enough to have an older home have oil heating, the reason most often cited is cost. It's just cheaper for builders to install a single air-source heat pump, with most folks buying primarily on dollars per square foot and kitchen surface materials, ignoring the quality and function of most mechanical systems.

And of course, they install the cheapest, code-compliant, potentially undersized and single speed heat pumps they can. Perpetuating the myth that heat pumps are expensive and miserable in winter!

 

[Ashful]

And of course, they install the cheapest, code-compliant, potentially undersized and single speed heat pumps they can. Perpetuating the myth that heat pumps are expensive and miserable in winter!

I wanted to like this post, but cannot, as I've never seen any evidence that commonly-deployed heat pumps are anything but expensive and miserable in the dead of winter. If there's an exception to this rule, it's rare, at least in this part of the country.

Moreover, if there is an exception to this rule, what’s being commonly used by builders today should be legislated out if existence.

 

[begreen]

The operative word is "commonly deployed". Common construction by many spec contractors has lots of flaws including inadequate insulation, poor sealing, cheap windows, cheap ZC fireplaces, etc. Add a cheap heat pump system to this and yes, you have a poor setup. Just as poor-performing HP units should not be used, so shouldn't these construction practices.

 

[EbS-P]

I wonder what NC will do. Not much is my guess.

Really all of this incentive without changing code is kind of missing huge opportunities. Really we need to push a green update to the building code. Remember anyone can build “ above” the code. It really represents the bare minimum of acceptable.

 

[semipro]

Turns out customers like the noise. Many ICE cars have been pumping synthetic or real engine noises into the cabin for years now. Even the old Mustang GT had a pipe coming off the intake so you could hear some induction noise in the cab. Rolls, and their parent company BMW, had to add a lot of synthetic engine noises into their larger cars because people found them to be "disconcertingly quiet" or something like that. Seriously, tons of cars have added sound. I'm personally not a fan myself and find it a bit weird and disingenuous, but it's here to stay.

As someone who grew up enamored with the sound of a high-revving ICE I can say now that I've really grown to appreciate the electronic whine that EV power electronics make as long as it's accompanied by some butt-clenching acceleration.

Some of the noises made externally by EVs are mandated for safety reasons. Silent cars in parking lots are a hazard.
We hit a deer in our Leaf EV a few weeks back and I can't help but wonder if it might have been avoided if I was driving a noisier car.

 

[semipro]

So much talk of "the grid" not being up to the task, over the last two pages of the Green Room. I'm not sure I buy it. Peak demand per capita will continue to trend downward, and localized generation (eg. solar) will offer increasing offset to long-haul demand. Smart charging of PEV's will continue to reduce peak-to-average demand ratio. If anything, I see the severity of demand on the grid decreasing with regard to everything except heating and cooling, but even there, efficiencies are always improving.

I was at a conference and heard a guy from the Rocky Mountain Institute talk about a turnpike travel plaza fuel station in either Michigan or Minnesota (I don't recall which). IIRC there were 10 diesel and 14 gasoline dispensers at the site. They calculated how much energy was transferred via those pumps daily and calculated the impact of total conversion to electric vehicles. The amount of electrical power required for that one fueling plaza was more than the total capacity of the local electric utility that served the site.

Now, I'm skeptical of this story. The data may have been cherry-picked. The grid may have been a very small local co-op. Or, maybe I just heard things wrong. Still, it left me with doubts about whether we weren't getting ahead of ourselves with vehicle electrification.

 

[woodgeek]

I was at a conference and heard a guy from the Rocky Mountain Institute talk about a turnpike travel plaza fuel station in either Michigan or Minnesota (I don't recall which). IIRC there were 10 diesel and 14 gasoline dispensers at the site. They calculated how much energy was transferred via those pumps daily and calculated the impact of total conversion to electric vehicles. The amount of electrical power required for that one fueling plaza was more than the total capacity of the local electric utility that served the site.

Now, I'm skeptical of this story. The data may have been cherry-picked. The grid may have been a very small local co-op. Or, maybe I just heard things wrong. Still, it left me with doubts about whether we weren't getting ahead of ourselves with vehicle electrification.

I don't doubt it. Its just a misleading stat. 90% of people's charging is on L2. And only 10% is on the turnpike.

 

[stoveliker]

But if the cars getting gasoline there are 90 pct local, the local utility won't be able to do it (whether it is at a "gas station" or distributed over the neighborhoods)?

 

[woodgeek]

But if the cars getting gasoline there are 90 pct local, the local utility won't be able to do it (whether it is at a "gas station" or distributed over the neighborhoods)?

There is also a time factor not being accounted for. In reality those pumps are not all pumping at 100% of the time. Its sized for peak gas demand.

When you do the math, the extra energy load on the grid from switching to EVs is about 25%. And if charging is done during off peak times, then the existing equipment can handle and distribute it (roughly) and the utility makes 25% more money.