More Harman Accentra insert cleaning questions

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
I got lucky! After a long time searching for the correct size Allen key (those markings are tiny!) and almost as long trying to fit the wrench to the setscrew due to the fan wanting to turn, I gave one last blast of PB and twisted.... PLAAAANG! Fortunately, that was the setscrew popping loose and not the wrench breaking in half. :)

A bit of heat from a propane torch does wonders for a locked setscrew. When you put it back on, put some anti-seize on the setscrew. Makes it much easier to get loose next time.
 
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Zeus

Burning Hunk
Mar 12, 2015
195
Pa
Well, it just arrived; like I said, "By the way, reviews show that sometimes buyers get a different brand, which is disconcerting." and it showed up Earth Sense brand, not Gleason. SOHULD I SEND IT BACK?
Earth sense puts their sticker on but it should be a Gleason
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
In reality, don't matter, it's the build quality (bearings), more than anything. I have an Earth Sense on my hot side and have had no issues. I did modify the triple reduction gearbox with a grease fitting however.
 

tiger

Feeling the Heat
Feb 3, 2014
347
Seabrook, MD (DC suburbs)
Thank for taking the time to respond!

Earth sense puts their sticker on but it should be a Gleason
Look it over. Are the bearings on the motor outboard end ball or sintered bronze? Is the field windings wrapped in high temp tape? Does it say China on it anywhere? If the bearings look quality and the windings are wrapped well, it's probably fine even if Chinese. If it was mine, I'd be drilling the top of the gearcase and adding a grease fitting and pumping in some grease. Manufacturers usually put very little lube in the gearcases. I like to fill mine up until the grease starts seeping out around the output shaft bearing.
All interesting. I have the new motor right here. There is tape over what I presume are the windings. Shaft seems to spin freely and no side play. Not sure how to tell what bearings are in there, but on the ned of the shaft furthest form the fan blades, the shaft is in a bearing which in a cast mount/retainer and I saw small elating on that casting: "Gleason-Avery". So I presume they made if for pellethead.com as their private brand (but to what specs?). I do not think there is a "gearbox" to lube, this looks like a 1:1 direct drive -- or am I wrong?

Wiring on the motor is about 8" long, two black and one green ground wire. Have not thought through the wiring, as in cut-and solder, or add more spade connectors, I am thinking this is a tough operating environment back there -- although maybe not as hot as the overpacked engine compartment of a British car.

Amazingly as Home-Depot's tool department is mostly empty peg hooks, I ordered from Amazon a 1/4-drive "universal joint" which I did not own, should arrive today. I decided I didn't want to dive into this and be frustrated by not being able to reach one of the screws.
 

tiger

Feeling the Heat
Feb 3, 2014
347
Seabrook, MD (DC suburbs)
When you put it back on, put some anti-seize on the setscrew. Makes it much easier to get loose next time.
Got a tube right here; I was thinking I should do that. :) Thanks for reinforcing the idea.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
Thank for taking the time to respond!





All interesting. I have the new motor right here. There is tape over what I presume are the windings. Shaft seems to spin freely and no side play. Not sure how to tell what bearings are in there, but on the ned of the shaft furthest form the fan blades, the shaft is in a bearing which in a cast mount/retainer and I saw small elating on that casting: "Gleason-Avery". So I presume they made if for pellethead.com as their private brand (but to what specs?). I do not think there is a "gearbox" to lube, this looks like a 1:1 direct drive -- or am I wrong?

Wiring on the motor is about 8" long, two black and one green ground wire. Have not thought through the wiring, as in cut-and solder, or add more spade connectors, I am thinking this is a tough operating environment back there -- although maybe not as hot as the overpacked engine compartment of a British car.

Amazingly as Home-Depot's tool department is mostly empty peg hooks, I ordered from Amazon a 1/4-drive "universal joint" which I did not own, should arrive today. I decided I didn't want to dive into this and be frustrated by not being able to reach one of the screws.

Combustion fan and distribution blower motors are direct drive. Everything else is triple reduction gearbox drive but, all are shaded pole motors. Look at the outboard end of the motor at the bearing cap closely. You should be able to see if the bearing is a ball or sintered. I bet it's a sealed ball. Same with the inboard bearing, sealed ball. I'd be real surprised if they were sintered.
 

Nitro-Fish

Burning Hunk
Feb 5, 2009
136
VA
Combustion fan and distribution blower motors are direct drive. Everything else is triple reduction gearbox drive but, all are shaded pole motors. Look at the outboard end of the motor at the bearing cap closely. You should be able to see if the bearing is a ball or sintered. I bet it's a sealed ball. Same with the inboard bearing, sealed ball. I'd be real surprised if they were sintered.
I would like to know if they are 608 RS skateboard bearings (ball bearings with rubber dust covers) like what is found in the Jakel combustion motors. I actually replaced the 608 RS with Precision 608zz bearings in the Jakel on one of the P68's I have, works great.
 

SidecarFlip

Minister of Fire
You actually have to look on the bearing itself (usually the outer race for the ISO catalog number and cross it in a bearing catalog. I use the SKF cross reference in the SKF catalog. Every ball or roller bearing will have a catalog number etched in the outer race, usually on the side. Than number corresponds to an ISO number that all bearing manufacturers use. The number refers to inner and outer diameter, width, maximum loading capacity, maximum safe rpm and how it's shielded.
 
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tiger

Feeling the Heat
Feb 3, 2014
347
Seabrook, MD (DC suburbs)
Thanks for all the input and support!

Well, after a weekend distracted by a significant old-house plumbing crisis, I'm now starting on this. The stove is out (about 20" and I think that's not so far out that I cannot reinstall it unaided), and noticed I had not replaced the fines-box cover earlier, so I am glad I saw that. The door came readily off, hopefully it will go back on as easy.

The bolts were not tight at all, I expected far more resistance. Now I see what overfireinthehole meant, the bolts are simple through bolts, not studs and they simply feel free. getting them back on and tightened might be a challenge. There are three bolts I'll call the outboard one, the inboard-low and the inboard-high. The inboard-low is in a place where I and (1) see it, (2) touch it with a finger, or (3) try to get a socket on it -- but no two of those. By the way, I thought I read these are 5/16" nuts, but I found that did not fit but 11/32" did. The 1/4"-drive so far did not help, I found a "long" socket and a short extension worked best. Oh, and "bolts"? They are indeed effectively studs, no wrench flats or screwdriver slots, but not a tight press fit either; just a little texturing on the underside of the "head". Really?

The old motor just hangs there. I see three wires, about 2" of each exposed before they go into a wiring-loom sheath; I cut the first zip-tie, then the sheath is next secured by a P-clamp to a screw on the motor (safe to unscrew that screw without a gazillion parts popping out? The new motor has a screw in the same place.

Do I cut the sheath open, or do all work at the 2" right at the motor? The new motor's three leads end after 8" or so in flat connectors. In the box came three matching connectors to mate with them, plastic-sheathed so I presume for crimp connection and not soldering.. OK?

And the old motor has a white wire, a black wire and a green ground. The new motor has two black and one green. Am I heading towards a polarity problem?

Sounds good let us know when you get the parts in.
Do yourself a favor and get that thing pulled way out and take the front door off. When your trying to put those nuts back on you’ll have to hold the studs in place or they will want to fall into the front of the stove and the door gets in the way. Also if it’s pulled way out, you should be able to get at the nuts with a socket, extension, and a wobble. If the blade won’t come off, just cut the shaft with a sawzaw in the back.
 

tiger

Feeling the Heat
Feb 3, 2014
347
Seabrook, MD (DC suburbs)
Update: Got anxious, so I tried the website listed on the motor, www.pellethead.com; and did online chat with "Diana M" there. She (A) said either black wire can go to either wire on the harness, and (B) gave me links to two videos.
 

tiger

Feeling the Heat
Feb 3, 2014
347
Seabrook, MD (DC suburbs)
[First, I wish I could have simply edited the earlier post(s) to add info, instead of creating new posts]

Well, it's wired - I chopped off the old wires as close to the old motor as humanly possible, and installed the crimp connectors; then I plugged the new motor's connectors to those (difficult fit!). This leaves about 8" more wire back there but I'd rather not cut/solder until I know everything else is OK.

Fire extinguisher at the ready, I plugged in the stove and the fan ran for a moment (I noticed that when disconnecting power to the stove and then plugging it back in, it always runs for a couple of seconds even if not turned "on"); very quiet, I think.

Then I attached the motor to the stove and, as anticipated, access to 2 of the 3 bolts is crazy! I sincerely hope they are tight enough. Then, plugged it back in again and, again, runs but quiet.

Next, time for the fan blades. This is odd, the 1/8" Allen wrench would not fit the replacement 502221 blades, although a 3mm one did fit. Also, the central boss is bigger. I made a decision, reversible at this point, to re-use the old fan, it cleans up nice and I'll remember which wrench to use. Yes, I added anti-seize compound. For a third time, plugged it in, maybe a wee bit louder but nothing like the old one.

HERE'S THE QUESTION: Hmm, is there a specific instruction on mounting depth, as in how far to slide the fan blades onto the motor shaft? I took a look before disassembly, it looked like the shaft stuck out past the fan's central boss perhaps 1"16 to 1/8", that's where it is now. Is there and ideal value to (A) not hit anything, (B) maximize flow?

Sounds good let us know when you get the parts in.
 

Zeus

Burning Hunk
Mar 12, 2015
195
Pa
When i in’s
[First, I wish I could have simply edited the earlier post(s) to add info, instead of creating new posts]

Well, it's wired - I chopped off the old wires as close to the old motor as humanly possible, and installed the crimp connectors; then I plugged the new motor's connectors to those (difficult fit!). This leaves about 8" more wire back there but I'd rather not cut/solder until I know everything else is OK.

Fire extinguisher at the ready, I plugged in the stove and the fan ran for a moment (I noticed that when disconnecting power to the stove and then plugging it back in, it always runs for a couple of seconds even if not turned "on"); very quiet, I think.

Then I attached the motor to the stove and, as anticipated, access to 2 of the 3 bolts is crazy! I sincerely hope they are tight enough. Then, plugged it back in again and, again, runs but quiet.

Next, time for the fan blades. This is odd, the 1/8" Allen wrench would not fit the replacement 502221 blades, although a 3mm one did fit. Also, the central boss is bigger. I made a decision, reversible at this point, to re-use the old fan, it cleans up nice and I'll remember which wrench to use. Yes, I added anti-seize compound. For a third time, plugged it in, maybe a wee bit louder but nothing like the old one.

HERE'S THE QUESTION: Hmm, is there a specific instruction on mounting depth, as in how far to slide the fan blades onto the motor shaft? I took a look before disassembly, it looked like the shaft stuck out past the fan's central boss perhaps 1"16 to 1/8", that's where it is now. Is there and ideal value to (A) not hit anything, (B) maximize flow?
as long as the fan isn’t hitting anything when it spins your good its pretty tight in there if you put fan cover on and try it listening for scrape . Sorry about socket size, it had been a while since I did mine. Looks as your almost finished good going,
 

tiger

Feeling the Heat
Feb 3, 2014
347
Seabrook, MD (DC suburbs)
Thanks! I move slowly. I put the fan-blade cover on, loose, plugged it in. Clears without scraping, and quiet. Then I tightened up the bolt for the cover, in case it moved even a millimeter, plugged it in and still quiet. Then I zip-tied the longish wires to keep them away from anything hot, plugged it in a SIXTH TIME, still fine.

Now, on to reassembly. Alas, cannot figure out how to operate the cordless drill to drive the cleaning-brush wand with one hand, guide the wand into the flue opening with a second hand, and hold the vacuum cleaner nozzle nearby with a third hand that I do not have. So, i guess I wait until my wife is home. :confused:

When i in’s as long as the fan isn’t hitting anything when it spins your good its pretty tight in there if you put fan cover on and try it listening for scrape . Sorry about socket size, it had been a while since I did mine. Looks as your almost finished good going,
 
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tiger

Feeling the Heat
Feb 3, 2014
347
Seabrook, MD (DC suburbs)
THANK YOU! Burning sweet for the past couple of hours, and MUCH quieter. Learned a lot, thanks for the guidance and moral support. Probably saved major $$$ over a service call.

as long as the fan isn’t hitting anything when it spins your good its pretty tight in there if you put fan cover on and try it listening for scrape .
[QUOTE="rickwai, post: 2419183, member: 19464”] I would suggest getting a fan blade when you order motor[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="Overfireinthehole, post: 2419852, member: 55982”] Do yourself a favor and get that thing pulled way out and take the front door off. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="SidecarFlip, post: 2421004, member: 13671”] When you put it back on, put some anti-seize on the setscrew. [/QUOTE]
 

Zeus

Burning Hunk
Mar 12, 2015
195
Pa
THANK YOU! Burning sweet for the past couple of hours, and MUCH quieter. Learned a lot, thanks for the guidance and moral support. Probably saved major $$$ over a service call.



[QUOTE="rickwai, post: 2419183, member: 19464”] I would suggest getting a fan blade when you order motor
[QUOTE="Overfireinthehole, post: 2419852, member: 55982”] Do yourself a favor and get that thing pulled way out and take the front door off. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="SidecarFlip, post: 2421004, member: 13671”] When you put it back on, put some anti-seize on the setscrew. [/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
My dealer quoted me $160 for new fan and $100 for service that made my decision to do it myself I saved about $165. The pellet stoves are pretty simple, and with the good knowledgeable guys here you shouldn’t need a dealer to help.
 

tiger

Feeling the Heat
Feb 3, 2014
347
Seabrook, MD (DC suburbs)
My dealer quoted me $160 for new fan and $100 for service that made my decision to do it myself I saved about $165. The pellet stoves are pretty simple, and with the good knowledgeable guys here you shouldn’t need a dealer to help.
And that might be PA prices. Here near Washington DC, people want that much just to wash your car. :rolleyes: I recall the first couple of seasons I paid to have the stove pulled out and a deep cleaning, I think that was $250... and there were no parts involved.

The combustion motor/fan is indeed so much quieter now I notice a humming that was more or less masked before. Correlating the on/off of the hum with the indicator lights, it's apparently the "feed motor". Runs fine, and I hope it's not on the way out.

Longing to get it was quiet as possible, I still like the idea of some application of high-temp Dynamat to dampen resonations, like on the hopper, and the circulation fan housings.