More Morso mods...

[Squirrely]

I always liked the stove design feature that incorporates wood storage into the base, so I got the idea to cut down a couple of ceramic floor tiles to fit in between the legs.




I also inserted a split keyring into the hole in the grate riddler. It's low down and the contact area is small so it doesn't get hot enough to matter.


Before we had the walls finished off, I installed a cheap little $13 bath fan up near the ceiling...




...and ran an insulated duct down the wall to exit behind the stove. The fan is controlled by a multi speed switch. The heated air that rises to the ceiling by convection is drawn into the wall and brought back down past the stove to pick up more heat and circulate into the room..The angle of the pipe is adjusted to blow at the rear of the stove so that similar amounts of air move around each side as well as over the top.

 

[RobbieB]

That's a good idea. I put a 10 inch vent duct fan in the garage with a reducer and 8 inch flex duct to the peak of the roof. In the winter time it raises the "working area" of the garage quite nicely and uses a whole 50 watts doing so. Free heat!

 

[Squirrely]

Yeah, small ducted fans use almost no power for the benefits they can produce. Passive heating's hot-air-rising shortcoming can easily be overcome with the tiniest of active inputs.

At 1.1k square feet our house is tiny so we really appreciate how little floor space the Squirrel takes up for what it offers in comfort and cozy atmosphere, and doesn't look like a microwave or an old television set... it looks like an old ice box.

Some painted Talavera tiles are on order from Mexico for the blank wall behind the stove to complete the hearth area, and should arrive in another couple of weeks.



I'm simply going to stick them onto the wall with silicone. The back of the stove actually radiates very little heat (~250 degrees) and barely warms the wall because it's used to preheat the constant incoming flow of secondary air.

 

[begreen]

WTH?! Putting a combustible close to the bottom of the stove like this is a fire hazard. Stoves designed to do this have heat shielding to make it safe. The Squirrel is not. This is a really bad idea.

Also, it is against mechanical code to have a return air duct within 10' of a stove. The setup would be more efficient and correct if the intake was in a cooler part of the house and blew that cooler air toward the stove. That works well to improve convection.

 

[Squirrely]

WTH?! Putting a combustible close to the bottom of the stove like this is a fire hazard. Stoves designed to do this have heat shielding to make it safe. The Squirrel is not. This is a really bad idea.

Also, it is against mechanical code to have a return air duct within 10' of a stove. The setup would be more efficient and correct if the intake was in a cooler part of the house and blew that cooler air toward the stove. That works well to improve convection.

Hardly any heat radiates out the bottom of the stove. I store the steel poker underneath inside the bottom heatshield and even after many hours of burning it's barely warm to the touch.

Is this QFire also a bad idea? It also has wood stacked up to the bottom.

(That's actually where I got the idea from. )


No codes are being violated. The return air is 20 feet away from the stove drawing the rising hot air from near the the top of the open ceiling. The duct behind the stove blows air around and over the stove. It's not a return air duct. We keep a carbon monoxide detector a few feet away from the stove and it detects zip co.

Our house is an unusual design, being a completely open 2 story loft. My wife and I designed and built it.



There are no compartmentalized cubical rooms with doors except the bathrooms and closets, so there's no need for any ducted central forced air heating or cooling because it's all basically just one room. The completely open architecture makes it possible to easily heat the whole house with just a dinky little stove and a few small chunks of wood. In fact the whole house can be lit up well enough to see your way around with just one 10 watt LED sconce light. It's tremendously energy efficient. Our electric bill averages $45 a month all year round...

...and the heat's free.

 

[begreen]

The Quadrafire shown was lab tested and certified for that configuration. The Morso, not.

 

[xman23]

As I was reading down through the comments, My thought, was with Bgreen WTH. There have been a lot of pictures here of wood stoves with wood stacked real close. I cringe every time I see it. If the new high temp you get the stove up to doesn't lite it up, the ember off the poker or out of the stove that you don't see is waiting to get you. Hey, just saying, we are playing with fire, you can't be careful enough brother.

Great looking installation. I love the look of those small Morso stoves.

 

[Squirrely]

As I was reading down through the comments, My thought, was with Bgreen WTH. There have been a lot of pictures here of wood stoves with wood stacked real close. I cringe every time I see it. If the new high temp you get the stove up to doesn't lite it up, the ember off the poker or out of the stove that you don't see is waiting to get you. Hey, just saying, we are playing with fire, you can't be careful enough brother.

Great looking installation. I love the look of those small Morso stoves.

Thanks, so do I.
And I do appreciate your friendly concern. I put wood under the Squirrel after knowing exactly how much heat made it past the bottom heat shield. I use a laser temp indicator and it's negligible even after hours of use.

We were going to get the smallest Quadrafire (Discovery I)...



I really liked its simple appearance and compact design. After looking at the parts diagram and reading the reviews I got the Morso instead. A great part of the enjoyment of any purchase is knowing that you chose the best one to fit your use.

Greg

 

[bholler]

A great part of the enjoyment of any purchase is knowing that you chose the best one to fit your use.

Yes but you also picked a stove that you feel you needed to do modifications to in order to make it work the way you wanted which have had some very real safety repercussions. I dont understand why you insist on continually telling people how to make their stove install less safe.

 

[Squirrely]

Well, it's obvious we each have two completely different approaches to life.

My approach is to assume that the few good folk reading here are adults who are more than capable of making their own decisions. There is a distinction between describing what a person does and telling others what they think others should do. Of course you are free to assume otherwise as fits your own approach.

I simply picked a stove which best fits my uses just like everyone else does. It's an enjoyable process looking at all of the various designs. Most interesting are the exploded parts diagrams. That's where you can really see what's going on. It's also enlightening to note the differences between European and US models. And with the nonlocal blessings of the internet you can buy just about anything from just about anywhere

As far as safety repercussions... in my opinion it's far safer to fire a stove with the door closed than with the door open. But that's just an opinion. I'm not telling you what I think you should do.

 

[bholler]

Well, it's obvious we each have two completely different approaches to life.

Yes one is from a professional who knows exactly what happens when people disregard safety procedures. And who knows what can happen when directions are unclear. The other is from someone who thinks they know more than anyone else even those who have designed tested and approved the stove you are dealing with.

My approach is to assume that the few good folk reading here are adults who are more than capable of making their own decisions. There is a distinction between describing what a person does and telling others what they think others should do. Of course you are free to assume otherwise as fits your own approach.

I work with customers every day and believe me assuming that people inherently understand the risks involved with wood stoves is very very wrong and could be extremely dangerous. Yes you do not tell anyone to do it but you say I did this and it is working great without saying that you are at risk of destroying your stove or setting that wood under the stove on fire. So you are not giving them the info they need to make an educated decision. Mainly because you don't have that information. You do not understand the risks you are taking at all

 

[Squirrely]

Yes you do not tell anyone to do it but you say I did this and it is working great without saying that you are at risk of destroying your stove or setting that wood under the stove on fire.

The stove does work great starting a fire with the door safely closed.
The bottom heat shield only gets warm even after hours of burning.

Everyone is at risk of destroying their stove.

 

[bholler]

The stove does work great starting a fire with the door safely closed.
The bottom heat shield only gets warm even after hours of burning.

Everyone is at risk of destroying their stove.

No not everyone is at risk of destroying their stove and even if that was true why would you voluntarily increase that risk?

And how hot does it get? At what temp are you causing pyrolysis in that wood under the stove? How long is that wood stored there?

 

[bholler]

I will say i see no issue with the duct it is outside the 10 ft and you are dumping the air back on next to the stove so there is no potential negative pressure issue

 

[Squirrely]

No not everyone is at risk of destroying their stove and even if that was true why would you voluntarily increase that risk?

Sure they are... even you.

The hottest the bottom heat shield has ever gotten was 127 degrees.
There is something I know more about than you do, and that's my own situation.

 

[bholler]

Yes i am never said i wasnt. But that does not mean i am going to alter my stove in a way that will increase the risk. And by the way bk owners are not. And ok yours may be that cool but will everyone elses be? Will your be if you forget to close that bottom air intake? What about with the bottom closed but the top open to far?

And btw 127 is not to far from pyrolysis temps and is high enough to ignite pyrolized wood

 

[Squirrely]

And ok yours may be that cool but will everyone elses be?

They'd have to overfire their stove.

127 is a long way from 390.

 

[bholler]

They'd have to overfire their stove.

How do you know that? In a different install with different draft different wood different airflow characteristics the temperatures could vary greatly. That is why they do testing. And yes they may need to over fire the stove but you should be able to do that without the risk of something catastrophic happening like a pile of firewood igniting under the stove.

127 is a long way from 390.

Yes for rapid pyrolisis on some woods the temp is 390. But the kindling point will be reduced dramatically at temperatures below that. In some soft wood it has been seen to happen at temperatures as low as 250. Now at that temp it will take a long time to get the kindling point down to a dangerous level but it will happen eventually.

 

[tarzan]

Sure they are... even you.

The hottest the bottom heat shield has ever gotten was 127 degrees.
There is something I know more about than you do, and that's my own situation.

With the ceramic tile sidewalls and wood stacked under the stove your bottom heat shield will run hotter than it did with air circulating freely under the stove. How much hotter? I don't know.

I like the look of the wood stacked under the stove but I would only store it there when there's no fire in the stove.

 

[Squirrely]

With the ceramic tile sidewalls and wood stacked under the stove your bottom heat shield will run hotter than it did with air circulating freely under the stove. How much hotter? I don't know.

Good point. I'll take a temp reading next time it's fired up and will let you know in this thread.

I like the look of the wood stacked under the stove but I would only store it there when there's no fire in the stove.

So do I.

More than an evening's worth of heat stores nice and tidy underneath the stove within easy reach, so that everything only takes up a compact 15" x 15" footprint of floor space. There's no need for a hearth because the whole floor is ceramic tile.

Most of the time the wood is stored while the stove is cold. And when there's a fire, the wood at the top of the stack is removed to fuel it, so the stack is never full when the stove is hot. This poses no hazard for anyone with common sense. We built our tinyhouse in a rural area with no street lights, no sidewalks, no municipal sewer, or natural gas.



It incorporates a variety of creative energy efficient features. With free heat from the wood-thrifty little Squirrel, our total average utility costs for electricity water and propane run only $135 a month.

 

[jetsam]

When I started reading about pyrolysis, I was surprised to learn a couple things. (I know this isn't what begreen was talking about, but it's interesting stuff.)

1) Wood fire ignition is possible at temperatures of
170°F and maybe lower.

2) Steam pipes passing through wood floors used to be a common cause of house fires, back when steam heat was common.

(broken link removed to https://www.doctorfire.com/low_temp_wood1.pdf)

Made me take a closer look at my setup, and also understand why UL calls a 100°F rise in wood temperature dangerous.

 

[Squirrely]

1) Wood fire ignition is possible at temperatures of
170°F and maybe lower.

I wish wood was that flammable when we're camping out.

That is interesting info. I'm going to take laser thermometer readings on the wood while the stove's hot.

 

[bholler]

Made me take a closer look at my setup, and also understand why UL calls a 100°F rise in wood temperature dangerous.

That is a great paper on the issue I was looking for it to post here but you beat me to it.

 

[bholler]

It incorporates a variety of creative energy efficient features. With free heat from the wood-thrifty little Squirrel, our total average utility costs for electricity water and propane run only $135 a month.

Very nice looking house. I have to say your energy prices must be much higher there than they are for us here. We average about $210 a month in a 100 year old wood sided 2200 sqft Victorian with original windows. That is with public sewer and well water.

 

[begreen]

I wish wood was that flammable when we're camping out.

It is, if the wood is dry tinder shavings. Pyrolysis also can occur from hot water heating system water piping at 170F.