More truck talk

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SpaceBus

Minister of Fire
Nov 18, 2018
7,493
Downeast Maine
Even with diesel prices soaring I'm glad I have one in my truck. I'm still averaging 25+ MPG on our long country roads out here. If we lived in a more densely populated area with less distance to go for normal things, like livestock feed and bedding, I would definitely regret having chosen a diesel. I made a 75 mile round trip today and didn't even see the needle move. Even with a stuck rear passenger brake I was averaging 25 MPG today. In a gasser loaded down with over 1,000 lbs of feed and bedding I doubt I would be getting better than 15 MPG.
 
Even with diesel prices soaring I'm glad I have one in my truck. I'm still averaging 25+ MPG on our long country roads out here. If we lived in a more densely populated area with less distance to go for normal things, like livestock feed and bedding, I would definitely regret having chosen a diesel. I made a 75 mile round trip today and didn't even see the needle move. Even with a stuck rear passenger brake I was averaging 25 MPG today. In a gasser loaded down with over 1,000 lbs of feed and bedding I doubt I would be getting better than 15 MPG.
I barely get 15 empty
 
I barely get 15 empty
I would think the new "economy" offerings from the US MFG's would bet able to get better than that on 55 mph roads, even loaded up to their max. My 08 Titan got 15 on the freeway, with an ATV in the bed, or really any situation in which my foot wasn't against the firewall.
 
I would think the new "economy" offerings from the US MFG's would bet able to get better than that on 55 mph roads, even loaded up to their max. My 08 Titan got 15 on the freeway, with an ATV in the bed, or really any situation in which my foot wasn't against the firewall.
That in in a 2017 f250 on the highway it gets more than 15 but here on the twisty hilly back roads we typically drive on 15 is the top
 
That in in a 2017 f250 on the highway it gets more than 15 but here on the twisty hilly back roads we typically drive on 15 is the top
Oh, F250, yeah, that makes sense! I thought your work truck was a 1/2 V6 for some reason. I wish I could get by with a 2.7ecoboost F150 or the hybrid V6 Ram. If the store had everything I wanted I would have been over weight for a 1/2 ton. Right now I don't mind the high prices, my road is so quiet now.
 
Oh, F250, yeah, that makes sense! I thought your work truck was a 1/2 V6 for some reason. I wish I could get by with a 2.7ecoboost F150 or the hybrid V6 Ram. If the store had everything I wanted I would have been over weight for a 1/2 ton. Right now I don't mind the high prices, my road is so quiet now.
Yeah a V6 1/2 ton won't haul a cube of brick or pull a dump trailer with 4 tons of rubble in it.
 
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Yeah a V6 1/2 ton won't haul a cube of brick or pull a dump trailer with 4 tons of rubble in it.
Agreed if one is doing this frequently for work The F250's suspension is beefier but the F150 has plenty of power. I had a camper on an F150, 3.5 v6 ecoboost for a few years. It handled the weight really well with gobs of power to spare, even up serious mountains. The only variable was your gas budget. Towing capacity was 9,700 lbs.
 
Yeah a V6 1/2 ton won't haul a cube of brick or pull a dump trailer with 4 tons of rubble in it.
So on paper. The the 1994 -???? 7.3 L power stroke is comparable to the 2.7 eco boost on HP and torque. I find that amazing. Boy did my grandfather like “all that power” to pull his RV.
 
Agreed if one is doing this frequently for work The F250's suspension is beefier but the F150 has plenty of power. I had a camper on an F150, 3.5 v6 ecoboost for a few years. It handled the weight really well with gobs of power to spare, even up serious mountains. The only variable was your gas budget. Towing capacity was 9,700 lbs.
The problem is the trailer itself is almost 2 tons. Add 4 tons of load in it and a half ton isn't going to cut it.

That and the truck regularly hauls a cube of brick in the bed. Which is roughly 1 ton.
 
Indeed, you need the suspension mostly. The power is in part a matter of gearing. Does it have a 4:10 rear?
 
Nope 3.73 with an e locker. 385 HP and 430 lb/ft The other option was a 4.33. but you are right 1/2 ton trucks have plenty of power. But not the suspension brakes axles tires etc.

My 1990 f250 has 4.10 and I swapped 4.10s into the bronco
 
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So on paper. The the 1994 -???? 7.3 L power stroke is comparable to the 2.7 eco boost on HP and torque. I find that amazing. Boy did my grandfather like “all that power” to pull his RV.
Yeah there are lots of 4 cylinders available now with more HP than the early power strokes. But they had lots of torque.
 
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Nope 3.73 with an e locker. 385 HP and 430 lb/ft The other option was a 4.33. but you are right 1/2 ton trucks have plenty of power. But not the suspension brakes axles tires etc.

My 1990 f250 has 4.10 and I swapped 4.10s into the bronco
That's what my truck had too. At 375 hp and 470 lb ft torque, the 3.5 ecoboost is no snoozer. I beefed mine up with airbags and heavy-duty tires, but would not have pushed it for much more weight on the camper even though it was rated for more.
 
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Expectations have changed, that's the big thing.

As a kid dad had a '90 F150 with the 5.0 V8 and 5 speed manual, we have a couple deep river hills and pulling our little 19ft holiday trailer it would be down in 3rd gear wound out doing 60km/h climbing out of the valley. That's just the way it was, took longer to get places. Now my diesel F350 pulling our 35ft fifth wheel with boat on behind sails up that same hill at 110km/h.

The new Ford Powerstroke is rated at 475hp, and is knocking on the door of what a semi tractor is rated at. The X15 Cummins that is put into the largest semis is rated at up to 605hp, and these trucks can weigh up to 80,000lbs in the US or 131,000lbs in Canada. A modern pickup can pull a lot of weight if you want to.
 
Expectations have changed, that's the big thing.

As a kid dad had a '90 F150 with the 5.0 V8 and 5 speed manual, we have a couple deep river hills and pulling our little 19ft holiday trailer it would be down in 3rd gear wound out doing 60km/h climbing out of the valley. That's just the way it was, took longer to get places. Now my diesel F350 pulling our 35ft fifth wheel with boat on behind sails up that same hill at 110km/h.

The new Ford Powerstroke is rated at 475hp, and is knocking on the door of what a semi tractor is rated at. The X15 Cummins that is put into the largest semis is rated at up to 605hp, and these trucks can weigh up to 80,000lbs in the US or 131,000lbs in Canada. A modern pickup can pull a lot of weight if you want to.
Even my 06 is rated to over 600 lb/ft of torque. I was able to pass semi trucks in the VT mountains towing a trailer full of our stuff when moving to Maine. Not that long ago dump trucks were using 300 CID Ford inline six engines.

I'm hoping these high fuel prices will spurn more development and interest towards alternative propulsion. We didn't drive much to begin with, but now we are even more selective about leaving the house.
 
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There are two items folks often overlook in their 1/2 ton pickup tow ratings, which can be critically dangerous, if they don't take the time to understand their basis:

1. Most manufacturers have shifted to naming their gross trailer tow ratings at the 10x pickup's maximum tongue weight. This is a sensible method, in many cases, but comes with some caveats on trailer loading. My 1/2 ton has a max trailer weight rating of 10,160 lbs, but if I load a trailer that heavy at a somewhat more stable 12% - 15% tongue weight, I'll be violating the maximum tongue weight determined by the rear suspension.

2. Most manufacturers today seem to be putting load range B (4-ply equiv.) P-metric tires on 1/2 ton trucks that should be reserved for mom's station wagon. If you're going to be doing any serious hauling, you're going to be much more stable and safer in all situations with a heavier LT tire. My little 1500 is stomping on load range D (8-ply equiv.) AT T/A K02 LT's, and the stability under load is more than noticeable. Those stupid B-range P-metics give a great ride hauling the kids to school or bringing groceries home after work, but they're not meant for hauling firewood or pulling trailers.
 
That's what my truck had too. At 375 hp and 470 lb ft torque, the 3.5 ecoboost is no snoozer. I beefed mine up with airbags and heavy-duty tires, but would not have pushed it for much more weight on the camper even though it was rated for more.
Yeah the 3.5 is a great motor. Never owned one but driven a few. I was worried about durability but after their initial issues they seem to be holding up very well. The main difference between them and the bigger v8s is where the power is. A v8 truck motor generally has lots of low end torque. The turbo 6s need to rev higher to get into their power. That is why you see such a dramatic change in mpg when hauling. Mine sucks all the time but doesn't change allot when hauling. Now for the vast majority of people the smaller turbo motors are a much better option. They are typically going to get much better mpg but still have the power on the occasions they need it. I know if I were looking for a personal non work truck that would be the direction I would go at this point
 
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Yeah the 3.5 is a great motor. Never owned one but driven a few. I was worried about durability but after their initial issues they seem to be holding up very well. The main difference between them and the bigger v8s is where the power is. A v8 truck motor generally has lots of low end torque. The turbo 6s need to rev higher to get into their power. That is why you see such a dramatic change in mpg when hauling. Mine sucks all the time but doesn't change allot when hauling. Now for the vast majority of people the smaller turbo motors are a much better option. They are typically going to get much better mpg but still have the power on the occasions they need it. I know if I were looking for a personal non work truck that would be the direction I would go at this point
I'm a chevy guy in a used '16 ford f 150 eco boost. The twin turbo 3.5 surprised me on the test drive and here 2 years later still performing like a champ at 189,000 miles.
remarkably it puts out 420ft/lbs torque @2500 rpm. 365 hp @ 5000rpm.
 
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So on paper. The the 1994 -???? 7.3 L power stroke is comparable to the 2.7 eco boost on HP and torque. I find that amazing. Boy did my grandfather like “all that power” to pull his RV.
I don’t think so. 7.3 power stroke in a ford pickup ended in 2003. My 2000 daily driver 7.3 was about the peak output and the valve cover sticker has HP in the mid 200s and torque in the mid 500s. It’s not that fast but it is steady.

The problem with the eco boost engines is direct injection and the ridiculous cam chains. Power for miles though.
 
I don’t think so. 7.3 power stroke in a ford pickup ended in 2003. My 2000 daily driver 7.3 was about the peak output and the valve cover sticker has HP in the mid 200s and torque in the mid 500s. It’s not that fast but it is steady.

The problem with the eco boost engines is direct injection and the ridiculous cam chains. Power for miles though.
My truck, an 06 Cummins "high output", is 600+ torques (the technical term), but it is super slow with the six speed manual and 4.11 rear end gears.

The early 7.3's did not have turbos and were kind of dogs, but reliable. Even the later models weren't power houses, but I still wanted to find one over my 5.9 truck. I was looking for the same config as my truck (4dr, 6spd, diesel, dually, lwb), but they were too expensive even in 2018. A duramax truck would have been nice, but the were even more expensive than the Ford trucks.

A 1994 non turbo 7.3 truck was producing 210 hp and 425 lb/ft of torque, which is not too different than the 325 hp and 400 torques out of the 2.7EB. I would still rather have the 7.3 if I'm towing and hauling for the better characteristics under load, but the new 2.7 is still impressive.
 
Friend of mine is a wholesale buyer (auction) for a bunch of big dealerships...he said he had to quit buying older and/or higher mile ecoboost trucks...just got burnt too many times.
That said, from what I've heard they do pretty well early on...I remember the torture test video Ford had when the EB came out, it was pretty stinkin impressive what it lived (and thrived) through...but that was also a ton of miles, in a short period of time, and I'm sure perfect maintenance...that's not real world for too many vehicles.
 
The Ecoboost is a fine engine, if you are daily driving it empty and need it for towing duty on the weekend. It's not an engine designed to pull hard all the time, brake specific fuel consumption climbs dramatically when the engine starts operating with boost. There's a reason the ecoboost or even 5.0 aren't offered in the F250 and larger trucks, the 6.2 and 7.3 gas have better longevity when heavily loaded and better fuel economy at higher power outputs.

The 2.3 Ecoboost was marinized for use in pleasure boats a few years back, its a 4 cylinder motor capable of producing 300hp. A few builders around here have been putting them in mid-sized jetboats for use on the rivers. The engine works, but marine use is totally out of the realm of what it was designed to do, they get decent fuel economy if run slow at low loads, but at high loads the fuel burn increases. In addition, a 2.3 Eco in a car or ranger uses 5w-30 engine oil, in marine use full synthetic 15w-50 oil is required and must be changed at 50 hour intervals, the manual for the marine engine also states "oil consumption is the natural of the beast". For comparison the GM 6.2 V8 Direct Injected engine is also commonly used in jet boats and uses standard 5w-20 oil changed at 100hr intervals, and gets better fuel economy than the ecoboost in the same boat at the same speed.

Small turbo engines like the ecoboost have their place, and their higher fuel consumption at high loads is far offset by the fuel savings of a small engine predominantly cruising lightly loaded on the highway. But for pulling large loads the big N/A gas engines are still relevant, as are large turbocharged diesel engines.
 
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Friend of mine is a wholesale buyer (auction) for a bunch of big dealerships...he said he had to quit buying older and/or higher mile ecoboost trucks...just got burnt too many times.
That said, from what I've heard they do pretty well early on...I remember the torture test video Ford had when the EB came out, it was pretty stinkin impressive what it lived (and thrived) through...but that was also a ton of miles, in a short period of time, and I'm sure perfect maintenance...that's not real world for too many vehicles.
I suspect a lot of the issues are related to maintenance and the trucks NOT being driven hard. Direct injection engines don't get the benefit of a fuel wash over the intake valves, which increases the gunk, especially on a boosted engine. If you perform the old "Italian tune up" every time you drive the truck they will probably last a lot longer. I've also heard about water condensing inside of the charge piping, which can definitely put a hurting on a boosted engine.
 
The Ecoboost is a fine engine, if you are daily driving it empty and need it for towing duty on the weekend. It's not an engine designed to pull hard all the time, brake specific fuel consumption climbs dramatically when the engine starts operating with boost. There's a reason the ecoboost or even 5.0 aren't offered in the F250 and larger trucks, the 6.2 and 7.3 gas have better longevity when heavily loaded and better fuel economy at higher power outputs.

The 2.3 Ecoboost was marinized for use in pleasure boats a few years back, its a 4 cylinder motor capable of producing 300hp. A few builders around here have been putting them in mid-sized jetboats for use on the rivers. The engine works, but marine use is totally out of the realm of what it was designed to do, they get decent fuel economy if run slow at low loads, but at high loads the fuel burn increases. In addition, a 2.3 Eco in a car or ranger uses 5w-30 engine oil, in marine use full synthetic 15w-50 oil is required and must be changed at 50 hour intervals, the manual for the marine engine also states "oil consumption is the natural of the beast". For comparison the GM 6.2 V8 Direct Injected engine is also commonly used in jet boats and uses standard 5w-20 oil changed at 100hr intervals, and gets better fuel economy than the ecoboost in the same boat at the same speed.

Small turbo engines like the ecoboost have their place, and their higher fuel consumption at high loads is far offset by the fuel savings of a small engine predominantly cruising lightly loaded on the highway. But for pulling large loads the big N/A gas engines are still relevant, as are large turbocharged diesel engines.
High load situations are definitely hard on boosted engines.
 
Moved the truck chatter to its own thread
 
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