Moving Heat Upstairs

[crizpynutz]

I have a typical New England Colonial here in northern CT. I don't have pics right now, will try to attach some later. From left to right my floor plan goes; Garage - Family Room - Kitchen/Dining Room - Living Room. The clinker is in my living room on the outside wall. In between the living room with the stove and the dining room (middle of the house) is the stairway going up starting right across from the front door. The stairway is half open and the heat gets up decent with the thermostat reading about 1-2 degrees less than the first floor.

My question is about the best way to get the heat from the hallway at the top of the stairs into the bedrooms. I'm debating installing floor vents (with fans?) in the floors from each of the 3 bedroom upstairs. Does that sound like the best option? Curious how others move heat up to upstairs bedrooms.

FYI, living room has a ceiling fan helping move the heat.

 

[TimfromMA]

First off, I would caution against installing floor registers as they would most likely violate fire codes.

Secondly, try putting a fan or fans in the outlying areas and blow the cold air back towards the stove.

 

[crizpynutz]

Ah, okay, I'll check on putting fans near the floor.

 

[jackbean53]

fire code definite violation

 

[AccentraRRT]

This website offers a few options for "air share" if the heat is getting up stairs but not into bedrooms because of shut doors there are options for putting room to room fans that go in the wall. There is also an option for level to level fans (ceiling to floor registers that have fans) however as TimfromMA said, it may violate fire codes in your area.
(broken link removed to http://www.hvacsolutionsdirect.com/catalog/Wood-Stove-Products/Room-to-Room-Heat-Transfer-fans.html)

 

[bags]

The fire code issues are very debatable at best. Deal with it almost daily / weekly on large multi story office buildings. It depends on how the penetrations are done and where they are or what the adjacent space is or how it is occupied.

Dampeners are used a lot. They may close but who cares when everything around them burns? What is different between an open stairway going upstairs with an old well seasoned WOOD banister, treads, and risers than a thru the floor air / return air cut in and done right?

The way I see it is that if there is a fire things will burn down regardless. Yes, it is nice to compartmentalize but get real.

 

[Rossco]

The 'Air-Share' kits might work as it pulls warm air from Celling height, feeds it down the stud gap and pushes it through to floor level.

 

[Rossco]

Well either this site is screwing up or its my not so 'Smart phone'

The Tjernlund kits ain't plug and play. You will need cut stuff, run power Etc.

I suggest a timed receptical as the fans generate noise.

I got a Tjernlund register fan and its high quality.

 

[TimfromMA]

The fire code issues are very debatable at best. Deal with it almost daily / weekly on large multi story office buildings. It depends on how the penetrations are done and where they are or what the adjacent space is or how it is occupied.

Dampeners are used a lot. They may close but who cares when everything around them burns? What is different between an open stairway going upstairs with an old well seasoned WOOD banister, treads, and risers than a thru the floor air / return air cut in and done right?

The way I see it is that if there is a fire things will burn down regardless. Yes, it is nice to compartmentalize but get real.

The problem you will face is if you ever have to file a claim due to fire. If the insurance company sees anything that violates fire codes, it could pose a problem for you. Also, if you every try to sell your house it could pose an issue as well.

 

[Wilbur Feral]

If not for the need for site traffic, this is one of those annual discussions where a mod could just collect all the past threads together, put in an automatic link to them every time the question comes up, and leave it at that. But that's not reality, we were all new at some point, and off we go for another season.

Oh, yeah - opinion - Don't do it, listen to Tim on this one. Holes in floor are a bad idea. They work well at distributing heat, but you don't want to void insurance or endanger others.

Rant on, all...

 

[St_Earl]

our house is a single story, but outside of external questions and debates on insurance etc... (valid or otherwise), i have imagined what i think would be the most effective way to move cold and warm air between floors.
have a passthrough directly above the stove room if it's on the lower level, and either install a fan in the opening or lay a box fan down on it, blowing down into the stove room.

you'd be sending your cool, upstairs, air down, and displacing/pushing warm air out of the stove room and up.
as well as this, you'd then also be then pulling the already displaced air up from the back side of the fan at the same time.

powered convection loop.

 

[Peterfield]

The fire code issues are very debatable at best. Deal with it almost daily / weekly on large multi story office buildings. It depends on how the penetrations are done and where they are or what the adjacent space is or how it is occupied.

Dampeners are used a lot. They may close but who cares when everything around them burns? What is different between an open stairway going upstairs with an old well seasoned WOOD banister, treads, and risers than a thru the floor air / return air cut in and done right?

The way I see it is that if there is a fire things will burn down regardless. Yes, it is nice to compartmentalize but get real.

It won't be debatable if the insurance company, or local zoning laws, don't agree with your opinion. Don't know the size of your town/city but usually the building inspector can answer your question in five minutes. His/her piece of paper will give you piece of mind.

 

[TimfromMA]

I've never seen them personally, but I've heard about register covers that have a fire sensitive fuse that closes the vent in the event of a fire. Something like this MAY allow you to put in the floor registers being discussed while still satisfying fire codes.

 

[crizpynutz]

If nothing else I've learned that I should contact the building inspector in town before doing anything like this. I know several people who have them in their homes, but I don't want to do anything that might put other things at risk; insurance, selling home, etc. I apologize for bringing up an annual topic, but I appreciate the replies.

 

[DBCOOPER]

It won't be debatable if the insurance company, or local zoning laws, don't agree with your opinion. Don't know the size of your town/city but usually the building inspector can answer your question in five minutes. His/her piece of paper will give you piece of mind.

Yep every year someone says its against code and no one ever provides a reference as to where in the code it says this. Local codes are based on national codes. Locals don't have the expertise to write codes. They adopt national codes.

Personally I don't think cutting in floor vents will help much.

 

[bogieb]

Yep every year someone says its against code and no one ever provides a reference as to where in the code it says this. Local codes are based on national codes. Locals don't have the expertise to write codes. They adopt national codes.

Personally I don't think cutting in floor vents will help much.

Some towns do write their own code - they usually end up converting over to national codes though (I lived in such a town that converted in 2005 or so).

In my case, floor vents did not help much in moving heat from the basement to the main floor. A little, but that wasn't a comfort when my bedroom was 45* and I spent an entire winter sleeping on the couch where it was anywhere between 62 and 70* depending on the outside temp and wind (Note: bedroom is on opposite side of house from stairway and over unheated garage). I installed register fans going both up and down(for cold air return) in all sorts of configurations. Tried a fan (and 2) in the stair (up and down) along with ceiling fans on the main floor.

Unfortunately, it is hard to say what will work in your particular house. Some people have had success, others, not so much. You don't say if you have tried fans either blowing from the top of the stairway toward the bedrooms, or a fan blowing from the bedrooms toward the stairway, but if not, that is the way I would try first. It's a tough pill to swallow if you cut holes in the floor and it doesn't work.

 

[NYBurner]

Crispy - I have a concurrent thread on the same topic, it may be helpful.

 

[Pellet-King]

If your home is heated by Oil or NG?, I would not bother using a "space" heater pellet stove this winter, you are spending more money right now burning pellets than oil/ng, plus all the work involved compared to ZERO work, DO NOT cut holes in your floor's, that ruins your home value and resale, plus it look's like chit

 

[St_Earl]

If your home is heated by Oil or NG?, I would not bother using a "space" heater pellet stove this winter, you are spending more money right now burning pellets than oil/ng, plus all the work involved compared to ZERO work, DO NOT cut holes in your floor's, that ruins your home value and resale, plus it look's like chit

yeah, if there weren't already a vent with a passthrough to the basement in place when we bought our place, i am pretty sure i would have not actually cut a hole.
as it is though, i am able to send air down to the basement and keep it moderately heated even in deepest winter. and that's just pulling warm air down through the vent. i keep it about 55f down there. it keeps the hot water heater from working as hard as it would otherwise, and it doesn't add any more of a load on the pellet stove than not doing it. the stove is already burning 24/7 in deepest winter.

i still believe that the effect of sending second floor cold air directly into the stove room with a fan, not passively as with a simple a cold air return, and thusly displacing the heat to the rest of the house, would have a dramatic effect.
trying to pull the warm air up through that same vent though, is bound to be disappointing.
but it's just musing on the idea, not a recommendation to cut a hole in your living room ceiling.
i'm glad i don't have a second floor to be concerned about.

 

[Pellet-King]

I have a Cape, 1500 sq ft, luckily the stove in the living room is a direct shot to the stairs going up, I have 2 doorways to my dining room/kitchen, my old Cape had only 1 doorway to the kitchen then to the downstairs bedrooms which were cold, my problem is it can be almost 10 degree's colder in my next room over dining room compared to my living room, my house is 65 yrs old and i'm sure no if any wall insulation.
My Mom's house is a Garrison colonial her fireplace is in the center outside wall of her living room, not the back of the house like most, the heat would have to exit the front foyer/hall then up the stairs.
I used to burn wood for 15 yrs before buying my pellet stove, it would get 90+ in the cellar, so I cut a hole in the nice oak floors on the side of the hearth upstairs, that Cape had 2 fireplaces and installing a register did NOT draw any heat up I was pissed off!, when I moved from there in 2008 I had to put the oak flooring back I cut and I had wall to wall carpet installed over the floor...bad mistake

 

[St_Earl]

again, passive returns and vents will disappoint.
IF (and that's a big if) you are going to do this, you need to put like a ducted fan in the hole and blow the cold air INTO the stove room. have the fan on a dimmer switch too so you can run it at completely variable speeds.
this will displace the heat out of the room into the rest of the house through the doorways. do not think of drawing the heat up through that tiny hole. even using the fan to "pull the heat up" is nowhere near as effective.

i do a version of this in my single floor house. a very small fan points INTO the stove room at floor level.
the warm air is displaced and then absolutely pours out under the lintel of the door.

your fan will also then keep the displaced air circulating because it will simultaneously be creating negative pressure in the upper floor.


many people with second stories they can't heat comfortably with the first floor stove, just go with the two stove solution.
our fellow member snowy rivers heats her place with three stoves, iirc.