Moving The Heat

[Dix]

The main level of the house is quite toasty. Basically the left side of the floor plan is the main house. The master bedroom is 6 steps dow (bottom of plan labeled bed 10.4 x 15.6) with 1 doorway. I have taken the door off of the hinges to allow for more air flow. Ceilings fans throughout. Insert is in room labeled bed 19 x 11, which is now a den.

Trying to figure how to move the heat down to that room, and in turn, get more heat into the apartment (right side bedroom, living, kitchen & bath) when the connecting doors are open (daughter lives there, so not an issue, usually)

I've tried a floor fan at the top of the master stairs, aimed into the den (labeled bed 19.6 x 11.2), and that's not working. I moved the floor fan to the upper doorway, and am pulling the air into the room with the insert, hoping to blow the air across the room, pick up warm air, and let it flow down stairs. It seems warmer down stairs ( no thermometer).

The apartment is warmer, especially the bedroom, that wall is directly across from the insert, so I am assuming by convection, the wall is warm, and in turn heating up the apratment. Creating a transom type opening between the den and the apartment has been nixed, as it would be into the bedroom. The lower level is on a seperate thermostat, which includes the master.

I have one of the corner doorway fans, not installed. Not sure where to put it to help. Or if it will.

I will also say that aside from super cold days (5 * F) or below, that we can get the apartment to 60ish with things as is, then the OB kicks in. Main house stays between 68-76 depending on how cold it is outside, and the time of day (cooler after over night burns, warms up with a tended fire), etc. We've turned off the apartment thermostat to test it out, and 60 was the best. Apartment thermostat is on at 68, main house is off.

Wondering if there is something I'm missing in this plan.

Am I pipe dreaming? Should I just take what I have, and be happy about it ?

 

[LeonMSPT]

Moving cold air up is like trying to push water up a hill, and pushing hot air down is like... trying to push water up a hill.

Personally, I think you'd have better luck with reverse ventilation logic here...

Place a fan at the top of the stairs, blowing back toward the heat source.

You will pull the coldest air possible out of the lower area, creating a "space" for warmer air to diffuse into...

But pushing heat down is a full time job, kind of like herding cats.

 

[LLigetfa]

Moving cold air up is like trying to push water up a hill...

People have been pushing water up hill for centuries. That's how you can have an upstairs bathroom. I draw cold air from the floor of my crawlspace and push it up through the floor above to the stoveusing a centrifugal blower. Warmer air gets drawn down into the crawlspace to replace it resulting in warm floors.

 

[LeonMSPT]

Yep, we've been moving heat down for awhile too.

We put it in water, and pump the water down. If it was easy, all we'd have to do is stand there and watch, do nothing. Much easier to make heat rise. It likes to to that.

Depending on the situation, the power of the fan, and the willingness to use electricity, the difference in temperature may or may not be worth the investment. I know when we built a new house when I was a kid, the chimney had a provision for a woodstove in the basement, not the third floor.

 

[Dix]

Yep, we've been moving heat down for awhile too.

We put it in water, and pump the water down. If it was easy, all we'd have to do is stand there and watch, do nothing. Much easier to make heat rise. It likes to to that.

Depending on the situation, the power of the fan, and the willingness to use electricity, the difference in temperature may or may not be worth the investment. I know when we built a new house when I was a kid, the chimney had a provision for a woodstove in the basement, not the third floor.

That's a major issue, the electricity. LIPA's rates are gigundo.

Guess I'll take what I have, and maybe my original thought of a small stove in there for eve's & weekends.

 

[LeonMSPT]

You might get some effect on air temperature down there with a reasonable sized floor fan pulling air from down stairs, and pushing it back toward the heat source. It's just negative pressure ventilation. The cold air settles to the floor, the warm air wants to rise. If you're pulling the coldest air out of the area to be replaced with the warmest air, it's bound to have "some effect". Depending on the area of "pull"... in other words, in a doorway or hallway, it will move more air out of the area with less backflow than in a room with multiple levels.

Learned alot about the issue as a firefighter. I always had an idea there was a reason behind venting the roof of a burning building as opposed to simply spraying water through the windows and charging a line and attacking through the front door.

Got a building full of smoke and heat? Best way to get rid of it is through the roof... it's trying hard to get there anyway.

Room full of smoke? Open the top of a double hung window on one side, and the bottom on the other side, insert ventilation fan and turn it on, blowing air into the room. Positive pressure ventilation. Colder air pushing into the room through the lower window with the assistance of the fan pushes the smoke and heat out the top window. Couple minutes and the smoke is gone.

 

[Dix]

You might get some effect on air temperature down there with a reasonable sized floor fan pulling air from down stairs, and pushing it back toward the heat source. It's just negative pressure ventilation. The cold air settles to the floor, the warm air wants to rise. If you're pulling the coldest air out of the area to be replaced with the warmest air, it's bound to have "some effect". Depending on the area of "pull"... in other words, in a doorway or hallway, it will move more air out of the area with less backflow than in a room with multiple levels.

Learned alot about the issue as a firefighter. I always had an idea there was a reason behind venting the roof of a burning building as opposed to simply spraying water through the windows and charging a line and attacking through the front door.

Got a building full of smoke and heat? Best way to get rid of it is through the roof... it's trying hard to get there anyway.

Room full of smoke? Open the top of a double hung window on one side, and the bottom on the other side, insert ventilation fan and turn it on, blowing air into the room. Positive pressure ventilation. Colder air pushing into the room through the lower window with the assistance of the fan pushes the smoke and heat out the top window. Couple minutes and the smoke is gone.

Thanks, Leon, that's the first thing I tried, with the celing fan on "down" & then "up" in the master. I didn't notice a differance.

I did notice a differance last night after Erin came home and the doors were open. It was 20ish outside, and 68 in the apt, and the burner wasn't running. It didn't come on until about 3 AM. Which, IMHO, ain't too shabby.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

No amount of circulation will overcome the immutable fact that woodstoves are not, and will not ever be central heat.

Save yourself the trouble and get an electric blanket for that room.