My idea for preventing frozen pipes

[cesc]

Last year the morning after a particular cold and windy night I woke up to a non-working hot water baseboard heating system because of a frozen pipe; my fireplace insert kept the house nice and toasty during the night and the thermostat never called for heat, which made the water in the baseboard heating pipe just sit there and freeze. A few holes in the wall, a hefty bill from the plumber, an upset wife and a very disappointed me later (disappointed because I was saving so much in oil and suddenly I had to expend all that money), I was determined to come up with a solution to the problem. From these forums I learned that pipes freezing because of wood stoves, inserts, etc. is not uncommon (https://www.hearth.com/talk/search/63699/?q=frozen+pipe&o=relevance).

Inspired by other solutions I came across (custom timers, ThermGuard, etc.) I thought to myself: What if I had a device that could monitor the outside temperature and whenever it's at or below a threshold I set, the device will call for heat every x number of hours and run for y minutes (x and y are set by me), independent of the thermostat, but only if the thermostat has not called for heat already during period x. It would also be neat if this device allowed me to monitor my heating usage and showed me, for instance, the number of hours my heating system ran in a particular zone.

Using a Raspberry Pi (a credit card sized computer), relays, AC to DC converter and a temperature sensor I came up with the device in the picture attached. It's not elegant like the ThermGuard but since it sits in the basement that's okay (it looks a little better with the cover on).

Currently, I have it set to run every 2 hours for 5 minutes whenever the outside temperature is at or below 22 degrees. Behind the scenes, this happens:
2019-12-25 00:00:09,261 - INFO - new day!
2019-12-25 00:00:09,800 - INFO - thermostat_zone_one_running_time reset to 0.0
2019-12-25 00:00:09,807 - INFO - pipe_protector_zone_one_running_time reset to 0.0
2019-12-25 00:00:09,814 - INFO - high reset to -999
2019-12-25 00:00:09,821 - INFO - low reset to 999
2019-12-25 01:07:31,054 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 01:07:31,063 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 01:07:31,070 - INFO - skipping run of pipe protector
2019-12-25 03:07:31,050 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 03:07:31,059 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 03:07:31,067 - INFO - pipe protector will run for 5.0 minutes
2019-12-25 03:07:31,074 - INFO - pipe protector is running
2019-12-25 03:12:31,462 - INFO - pipe protector is off
2019-12-25 03:12:31,475 - INFO - pipe_protector_zone_one_running_time: 0.0834413025 hours
2019-12-25 05:07:31,054 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 05:07:31,063 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 05:07:31,071 - INFO - pipe protector will run for 5.0 minutes
2019-12-25 05:07:31,078 - INFO - pipe protector is running
2019-12-25 05:12:31,488 - INFO - pipe protector is off
2019-12-25 05:12:31,500 - INFO - pipe_protector_zone_one_running_time: 0.16688850000000002 hours
2019-12-25 06:00:29,421 - INFO - thermostat on in zone one
2019-12-25 07:07:31,050 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 07:07:31,059 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 07:07:31,066 - INFO - thermostat is already running in zone one, skipping pipe protector run...
2019-12-25 09:07:31,054 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 09:07:31,064 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 09:07:31,071 - INFO - thermostat is already running in zone one, skipping pipe protector run...
2019-12-25 09:25:09,825 - INFO - thermostat off in zone one
2019-12-25 09:25:09,843 - INFO - thermostat_zone_one_running_time: 3.411222236111111 hours
2019-12-25 10:05:28,141 - INFO - thermostat on in zone one
2019-12-25 10:33:24,866 - INFO - thermostat off in zone one
2019-12-25 10:33:24,884 - INFO - thermostat_zone_one_running_time: 3.8769779724999998 hours
2019-12-25 11:07:31,054 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 11:07:31,063 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 11:07:31,071 - INFO - skipping run of pipe protector

This is where I monitor everything: http://70.15.69.173/

So far, it has been working as expected and I am very happy with it. I will make changes to it so I can also monitor my second zone. Once I really iron this out I will put together instructions so others who are interested can buy the parts and build this.

A challenge I ran into was not having a common wire to work with. It's not very clear in the picture but I ended up soldering a wire to the back of the control board off of the transformer to be able to do what I wanted. Since then, I had another idea which should make it much easier to get a common wire (using an external 24 VAC transformer and a relay) so I will likely use that approach going forward.

Any comments/feedback/criticism/questions/ideas are welcomed! I am proud of what I created and wanted to share it with others who are passionate about wood burning like me.

 

[kennyp2339]

I just go by when the temps drop below 10 deg f I cycle the baseboards twice a day for 10 min each time, once in the morning when I jump into the shower and once in the evening before bed.

 

[Gearhead660]

I have had the same freezing issue due to lack off use with my gas boiler. I know not everyone can do it, but i added the glycol to my system.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Your solution seems overly complicated. A simple length of plug in pipe heat tape will work wonders , inexpensive and effective. Comes on at about 35-40 degrees. If your water pipes are freezing while still inside the home envelope(especially in NJ) you have a serious air infiltration/insulation problem. Id look into remedy that as well.

 

[EbS-P]

When I lived I Maine I solved my HWBB freezing problems through judicious use of can foam. My basement zone and main level would freeze even when thermostat was set to 65 on really cold and windy days. Talking -10 or colder with 20 mph or higher winds. This was brand new construction. The rim plate warped and the the water lines were run on the exterior walls next to the rim plate. top of the poured foundation No rim joist insulation. I was able to crawl through the floor beams and they were trusses with several cans of foam sealing the rim plate and encapsulating the ptex. I moved before I could put in a pellet stove. But I’m pretty sure if I had even the insulation would not have prevented freeze ups once I was heating with pellets.

If I was to install something like that in my old place I might have put the temp sensor near the coldest part of the ptex run. Sample the temp every couple minutes and if temp was below 38 degrees run for 5 min.

Evan

 

[mass_burner]

Last year the morning after a particular cold and windy night I woke up to a non-working hot water baseboard heating system because of a frozen pipe; my fireplace insert kept the house nice and toasty during the night and the thermostat never called for heat, which made the water in the baseboard heating pipe just sit there and freeze. A few holes in the wall, a hefty bill from the plumber, an upset wife and a very disappointed me later (disappointed because I was saving so much in oil and suddenly I had to expend all that money), I was determined to come up with a solution to the problem. From these forums I learned that pipes freezing because of wood stoves, inserts, etc. is not uncommon (https://www.hearth.com/talk/search/63699/?q=frozen+pipe&o=relevance).

Inspired by other solutions I came across (custom timers, ThermGuard, etc.) I thought to myself: What if I had a device that could monitor the outside temperature and whenever it's at or below a threshold I set, the device will call for heat every x number of hours and run for y minutes (x and y are set by me), independent of the thermostat, but only if the thermostat has not called for heat already during period x. It would also be neat if this device allowed me to monitor my heating usage and showed me, for instance, the number of hours my heating system ran in a particular zone.

Using a Raspberry Pi (a credit card sized computer), relays, AC to DC converter and a temperature sensor I came up with the device in the picture attached. It's not elegant like the ThermGuard but since it sits in the basement that's okay (it looks a little better with the cover on).

Currently, I have it set to run every 2 hours for 5 minutes whenever the outside temperature is at or below 22 degrees. Behind the scenes, this happens:
2019-12-25 00:00:09,261 - INFO - new day!
2019-12-25 00:00:09,800 - INFO - thermostat_zone_one_running_time reset to 0.0
2019-12-25 00:00:09,807 - INFO - pipe_protector_zone_one_running_time reset to 0.0
2019-12-25 00:00:09,814 - INFO - high reset to -999
2019-12-25 00:00:09,821 - INFO - low reset to 999
2019-12-25 01:07:31,054 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 01:07:31,063 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 01:07:31,070 - INFO - skipping run of pipe protector
2019-12-25 03:07:31,050 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 03:07:31,059 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 03:07:31,067 - INFO - pipe protector will run for 5.0 minutes
2019-12-25 03:07:31,074 - INFO - pipe protector is running
2019-12-25 03:12:31,462 - INFO - pipe protector is off
2019-12-25 03:12:31,475 - INFO - pipe_protector_zone_one_running_time: 0.0834413025 hours
2019-12-25 05:07:31,054 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 05:07:31,063 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 05:07:31,071 - INFO - pipe protector will run for 5.0 minutes
2019-12-25 05:07:31,078 - INFO - pipe protector is running
2019-12-25 05:12:31,488 - INFO - pipe protector is off
2019-12-25 05:12:31,500 - INFO - pipe_protector_zone_one_running_time: 0.16688850000000002 hours
2019-12-25 06:00:29,421 - INFO - thermostat on in zone one
2019-12-25 07:07:31,050 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 07:07:31,059 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 07:07:31,066 - INFO - thermostat is already running in zone one, skipping pipe protector run...
2019-12-25 09:07:31,054 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 09:07:31,064 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 09:07:31,071 - INFO - thermostat is already running in zone one, skipping pipe protector run...
2019-12-25 09:25:09,825 - INFO - thermostat off in zone one
2019-12-25 09:25:09,843 - INFO - thermostat_zone_one_running_time: 3.411222236111111 hours
2019-12-25 10:05:28,141 - INFO - thermostat on in zone one
2019-12-25 10:33:24,866 - INFO - thermostat off in zone one
2019-12-25 10:33:24,884 - INFO - thermostat_zone_one_running_time: 3.8769779724999998 hours
2019-12-25 11:07:31,054 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 11:07:31,063 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 11:07:31,071 - INFO - skipping run of pipe protector

This is where I monitor everything: http://70.15.69.173/

So far, it has been working as expected and I am very happy with it. I will make changes to it so I can also monitor my second zone. Once I really iron this out I will put together instructions so others who are interested can buy the parts and build this.

A challenge I ran into was not having a common wire to work with. It's not very clear in the picture but I ended up soldering a wire to the back of the control board off of the transformer to be able to do what I wanted. Since then, I had another idea which should make it much easier to get a common wire (using an external 24 VAC transformer and a relay) so I will likely use that approach going forward.

Any comments/feedback/criticism/questions/ideas are welcomed! I am proud of what I created and wanted to share it with others who are passionate about wood burning like me.

 

[mass_burner]

Nice job OP. We're doing the same, the lazy way, with nests on away mode set to 50d. It cycles on and off, waiting for gas bill for results.

I think the holy grail is a device like yours controlling a pump, not the furnace, to keep water circulating, backed up by battery.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Talking -10 or colder with 20 mph or higher winds. This was brand new construction. The rim plate warped and the the water lines were run on the exterior walls next to the rim plate. top of the poured foundation No rim joist insulation.

Evan

I never run water pipes through exterior walls. Under ground basements with no heat at all usually stay above 45 -50 unless there is an abundance of cold air getting in. Air sealing and insulation in that order are the key.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I think the holy grail is a device like yours controlling a pump, not the furnace, to keep water circulating, backed up by battery.

Yes the pump will keep those cold spots from forming. As long as the water is moving the furnace dont have to be going in order to keep pipes from freezing.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Living in an old (125 years old) restored farm house with forced air heat (+90 condensing furnace) but an unheated Michigan basement (as in low headroom) and one register on the furnace which is down there as well, I had issues with pipes myself so what I did was put a timer on the furnace blower to run the blower for 15 minutes every hour, that way the stove heat gets circulated throughout the hose and the pipes don't freeze plus, I added a fan in the basement for air circulation. It's not toasty down there but it stays +32 all the time.

This winter hasn't really been that cold so far. Fingers crossed though.

 

[jetsam]

Last year the morning after a particular cold and windy night I woke up to a non-working hot water baseboard heating system because of a frozen pipe; my fireplace insert kept the house nice and toasty during the night and the thermostat never called for heat, which made the water in the baseboard heating pipe just sit there and freeze. A few holes in the wall, a hefty bill from the plumber, an upset wife and a very disappointed me later (disappointed because I was saving so much in oil and suddenly I had to expend all that money), I was determined to come up with a solution to the problem. From these forums I learned that pipes freezing because of wood stoves, inserts, etc. is not uncommon (https://www.hearth.com/talk/search/63699/?q=frozen+pipe&o=relevance).

Inspired by other solutions I came across (custom timers, ThermGuard, etc.) I thought to myself: What if I had a device that could monitor the outside temperature and whenever it's at or below a threshold I set, the device will call for heat every x number of hours and run for y minutes (x and y are set by me), independent of the thermostat, but only if the thermostat has not called for heat already during period x. It would also be neat if this device allowed me to monitor my heating usage and showed me, for instance, the number of hours my heating system ran in a particular zone.

Using a Raspberry Pi (a credit card sized computer), relays, AC to DC converter and a temperature sensor I came up with the device in the picture attached. It's not elegant like the ThermGuard but since it sits in the basement that's okay (it looks a little better with the cover on).

Currently, I have it set to run every 2 hours for 5 minutes whenever the outside temperature is at or below 22 degrees. Behind the scenes, this happens:
2019-12-25 00:00:09,261 - INFO - new day!
2019-12-25 00:00:09,800 - INFO - thermostat_zone_one_running_time reset to 0.0
2019-12-25 00:00:09,807 - INFO - pipe_protector_zone_one_running_time reset to 0.0
2019-12-25 00:00:09,814 - INFO - high reset to -999
2019-12-25 00:00:09,821 - INFO - low reset to 999
2019-12-25 01:07:31,054 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 01:07:31,063 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 01:07:31,070 - INFO - skipping run of pipe protector
2019-12-25 03:07:31,050 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 03:07:31,059 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 03:07:31,067 - INFO - pipe protector will run for 5.0 minutes
2019-12-25 03:07:31,074 - INFO - pipe protector is running
2019-12-25 03:12:31,462 - INFO - pipe protector is off
2019-12-25 03:12:31,475 - INFO - pipe_protector_zone_one_running_time: 0.0834413025 hours
2019-12-25 05:07:31,054 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 05:07:31,063 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 05:07:31,071 - INFO - pipe protector will run for 5.0 minutes
2019-12-25 05:07:31,078 - INFO - pipe protector is running
2019-12-25 05:12:31,488 - INFO - pipe protector is off
2019-12-25 05:12:31,500 - INFO - pipe_protector_zone_one_running_time: 0.16688850000000002 hours
2019-12-25 06:00:29,421 - INFO - thermostat on in zone one
2019-12-25 07:07:31,050 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 07:07:31,059 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 07:07:31,066 - INFO - thermostat is already running in zone one, skipping pipe protector run...
2019-12-25 09:07:31,054 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 09:07:31,064 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 09:07:31,071 - INFO - thermostat is already running in zone one, skipping pipe protector run...
2019-12-25 09:25:09,825 - INFO - thermostat off in zone one
2019-12-25 09:25:09,843 - INFO - thermostat_zone_one_running_time: 3.411222236111111 hours
2019-12-25 10:05:28,141 - INFO - thermostat on in zone one
2019-12-25 10:33:24,866 - INFO - thermostat off in zone one
2019-12-25 10:33:24,884 - INFO - thermostat_zone_one_running_time: 3.8769779724999998 hours
2019-12-25 11:07:31,054 - INFO - pipe_protector was activated and will attempt to run...
2019-12-25 11:07:31,063 - INFO - trigger_temp: 22.0
2019-12-25 11:07:31,071 - INFO - skipping run of pipe protector

This is where I monitor everything: http://70.15.69.173/

So far, it has been working as expected and I am very happy with it. I will make changes to it so I can also monitor my second zone. Once I really iron this out I will put together instructions so others who are interested can buy the parts and build this.

A challenge I ran into was not having a common wire to work with. It's not very clear in the picture but I ended up soldering a wire to the back of the control board off of the transformer to be able to do what I wanted. Since then, I had another idea which should make it much easier to get a common wire (using an external 24 VAC transformer and a relay) so I will likely use that approach going forward.

Any comments/feedback/criticism/questions/ideas are welcomed! I am proud of what I created and wanted to share it with others who are passionate about wood burning like me.

You could modify that setup a little to run the circulator pump without the boiler. You don't need to keep heating the water to keep it from freezing, just keep it moving a little.

 

[rwhite]

Is the water in the baseboard used for consumption as well? If not can you use antifreeze instead? My HWH has an old analog Taco pump because of the long run to the bathrooms. I run it from 5-9 am and PM. Nice having that on demand hot water in the morning.

 

[cesc]

Your solution seems overly complicated. A simple length of plug in pipe heat tape will work wonders , inexpensive and effective. Comes on at about 35-40 degrees. If your water pipes are freezing while still inside the home envelope(especially in NJ) you have a serious air infiltration/insulation problem. Id look into remedy that as well.

Unfortunately I don't have access to the pipe. I have a finished basement and the sections of the heating pipe that go down from the main floor to the basement and then back up (the sections of pipe that are likely exposed to drafts and not well Insulated) are behind the wall. If I had access to the pipe, heat tape would definitely be the simplest solution.

 

[cesc]

Nice job OP. We're doing the same, the lazy way, with nests on away mode set to 50d. It cycles on and off, waiting for gas bill for results.

I think the holy grail is a device like yours controlling a pump, not the furnace, to keep water circulating, backed up by battery.

Circulating cold water through the boiler while the boiler is not running won't damage it? I can certainly modify my setup to active the circulator only.

 

[jetsam]

Circulating cold water through the boiler while the boiler is not running won't damage it? I can certainly modify my setup to active the circulator only.

Hmm, I don't see why it would, but I am no boiler guy. There's probably an expert floating around here, though.

 

[jatoxico]

I believe if its a cold start it won't matter and if not the boiler will heat the water as needed.

 

[Sawset]

Back home, 1840s home, there would be frozen pipes, only under certain conditions. Wind from the west, temps below such and such. Ends up watching the wind direction and wind chill factor determined whether to turn on the baseboards or not. Talking to an hvac contractor meant being chastised endlessly. Nope, wind chill means nothing. In her case, wind, direction, infiltration, frost, frozen, pipes, 70 yrs of experience, only she knows, and she's golden. She finally insulated and sealed, added heat ducts, cut out the chinese puzzle of heating the place.

 

[Lumberjack]

I love the use of RPi!

can you provide more detail on how you wired the pi to the boiler?

 

[firefighterjake]

Neat concept . . . although I am decidely low tech and like Kenny when it gets really cold (below zero for more than two days in a row) I'll cycle the hot water through the baseboard heaters for a few minutes a couple times each day. So far . . . so good.

I did have a few freeze ups over the year, but they were entirely my fault: 1) sink drain in the mudroom which was an addition to the house and a draft was coming in (now: sealed off), 2) pipe feeding the kitchen cold water due to a draft (now: sealed off and insulated) and 3) outdoor faucet was frozen since I forgot to turn off the inside faucet, allowing standing water in the pipe in the wall leading to the outside.

Fortunately, no broke pipes in any of those cases.

 

[Chimney Smoke]

I also follow the simple method of just cranking up the thermostat before bed to let hot water run through the pipes for a few minutes.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

I also follow the simple method of just cranking up the thermostat before bed to let hot water run through the pipes for a few minutes.

That works until theres a power outage or a furnace problem. Rerouting the pipes or fixing the air leaks are the only real fixes that dont depend on the power supply not being interupted or the furnace not malfunctioning. Learned that from experience. Oil furnace went down in a fairly well insulated and air sealed unoccupied seasonal home for the whole month of jan and first half of febuary one year and i was astounded that not a single pipe froze although all were filled at street water pressure. Appears the ground heat from the uninsulated basement kept the whole place just above freezing. In another house not far away i get frozen pipes in about 12 hours of a no heat situation.

 

[cesc]

I also follow the simple method of just cranking up the thermostat before bed to let hot water run through the pipes for a few minutes.

Given the insulation/draft issue I had here (Still have? Don't want to find out the hard way! ) that would not have worked for me. I go to bed around 10 and wake up around 6. That's 8 hours with the thermostat not calling for heat. I have it set to 62 so for the sake of argument, let's the thermostat doesn't call for heat for half of that time. That's still 4 hours and on a very cold and windy day that could be fatal.

I admit there are various ways around this issue but the majority rely on a person remembering to perform some task or are wasteful (set the thermostat to 70 on cold days and it will run pretty much all night and you don't have to worry about anything). However, I'm looking for a hands off solution. As a bonus, now I can very nicely monitor my heat usage by turning my normal boiler into a smart boiler. I'm working on refining my idea and plan to make it very simple to install and use. Will have my neighbor try it soon on his boiler given he also burns wood and does everything he can to save on oil like me.

 

[cloudybw]

Last year the morning after a particular cold and windy night I woke up to a non-working hot water baseboard heating system because of a frozen pipe; my fireplace insert kept the house nice and toasty during the night and the thermostat never called for heat, which made the water in the baseboard heating pipe just sit there and freeze. A few holes in the wall, a hefty bill from the plumber, an upset wife and a very disappointed me later (disappointed because I was saving so much in oil and suddenly I had to expend all that money), I was determined to come up with a solution to the problem. From these forums I learned that pipes freezing because of wood stoves, inserts, etc. is not uncommon (https://www.hearth.com/talk/search/63699/?q=frozen+pipe&o=relevance).

Any comments/feedback/criticism/questions/ideas are welcomed! I am proud of what I created and wanted to share it with others who are passionate about wood burning like me.

This is an brilliant idea!

Our home has an old Weil-Mclain gas boiler (with propane conversion) with 5 heating zones plus an indirect water heater zone. It has Taco 571 series zone valves, controlled by thermostat with only two (2) wires (R & W), so it is tricky to use smart thermostats such as Ecobee without adding additional 24VAC transformers and common C wire.

Would you mind sharing more details about your setup for two zones? I am particularly interested in the parts needed and wiring.

Happy Holidays!

 

[Fod01]

I frequently torture myself figuring out the best mix of oil, wood, and minisplit usage.
Fortunately(?) my insert is not big enough to stop the heat from coming on during the cold snaps.

Why not get a clock thermostat and set the heat to come on from 3 - 3:10am for example?

 

[mpaul]

I have a propane boiler that heats my water baseboards. My heat is kept completely off. I’ll turn it on once or twice a month just to make sure it works, but otherwise it stays off. My pipes do not freeze because the water lines have antifreeze designed for heating systems mixed in.

Gives me piece of mind and a lot cheaper and easier then heating all the pipes.