napoleon and fan

[jtrm]

We replaced a propane gas fireplace installed by the old home owner with a Napoleon 1400 pedestal into a 4 year old double wide (with a heat pump). The stove is a little bit back in the corner and so circulation is not so good. It was installed by a Napoleon representative and clearances are all appropriate. I decided to wait on buying its blower system (about $200) to experiment first with fan(s). I have played with floor fans and reversing ceiling fans but the best I have found is placing this box fan on the back wall a couple of inches about the top surface. I wait until the front surface is 250-300 degrees and then turn it on slow. The change in house comfort level is dramatic.

My question first of all… could this be dangerous. The fan is barely warm to the touch (even when off) when the stove upper surface is around 500 (under the warming aluminum plate).

Also could this have a negative effect on the chimney circulation and decrease the efficiency of the stove?

I love that it is simple. We have only been using it while awake turning it off at night. I would like to also run it while we sleep. Any thoughts, advice or suggestions?

 

[begreen]

The fan's plastic parts are combustible. Make sure you are honoring the clearances to combustibles for the stove and the flue pipe. Also, did you try the box fan in the cool location you want to heat up? The fan should be on the floor in the cool area, pointed towards the stove. It can make a huge difference in some cases.

PS: Does the stove have an outside air kit connected. It's required for mobiles. I'm not sure how they treat manufactured homes.

 

[jtrm]

The clearances for the flue double walled piped is good (manual indicates requirement of >6 inches).

I did about a 20 min search before I posted and found several people including youself mention the idea of a floor fan pointing cool air to the stove. It sounds like such an interesting idea and I would never have considered it. I'm out of town tonight and should return home tomorrow ..... that is going to be the first thing I'll try. Would it be best to point the fan straight to the front of the stove or could I use an angle ... from the entrance to a hall for example? Again it is a bit back in a corner and would be hard to point a fan from a cooler room and still be at a distance that would be effective.

No... the stove does not have an outside air kit connected. From what we discussed at installation the prefab is not considered a mobile home and so was not necessary.

thanks

 

[begreen]

I know it's counter intuitive, but it works. This is how I heat my office. It's never been so comfortable. Our fan points directly at the stove, but other ideas may work. Experiment and give each try at least a few hours. If you can post a diagram of what you are trying to do with moving heat, that would help.

 

[jtrm]

When I get home tonight I'll make a sketch and post it .... thanks

 

[rob bennett]

It looks like you are trying to suck air out of the drywall. I'd put a spacer between the wall and the fan so air can circulate through the fan.
I personally wouldn't run this set up. I don't like temporary looking things in my house but that just me.

 

[jtrm]

Your right it does .... I have put about 1 1/2 - 2 inch spacer between the fan and the wall. It still does not look like enough but you can feel the effect. It really does change the comfort level in the living room.

I don't much like the look either but it does keep the fan off the floor and out of the way. I just am not ready to make the couple hundred dollar investment to put the blower on the stove which would be the only way I see at the moment to clear up the aesthetics.

I am also very interested testing the idea blowing cooler air towards the stove and see how that adds to the mix. I use to teach high school science and all this experimenting is fun to play with.

 

[rob bennett]

What's on the other side of that wall? You can get a nice stainless steel through wall fan (my brother has one in his kitchen that blows exhaust outside) If you have another room behind that wall, it would look pretty nice and give you lots of heat circulation.

 

[jtrm]

Here is a quick drawing I did tonight with a little help from some caffeine. The dimensions may be a bit off but the over all view is pretty close. Again this is about a 4 year old double wide. We plan on living here probably for the next 3-4 years as we build our home further up the property. Of course that depends on the economics .... due to current events and wall street ethics .... we've already pushed plans back a couple years.

 

[drhiii]

If I may ring in... I have the same Napoleon 1400 pedestal stove. After wrangling with ideas, there are two things that have ended up being dany for our 1907 Victorian and slightly challenged weather proofed house. I have done a good job at insulation, but still... it is after all, from 1907.

Our stove is in a similar configuration as yours. Middle of the house, against a long wall, and need to push warmth in two directions... into a couple of rooms to the front, and to the kitchen and bedrooms in the back. After messing with several ideas, fans everything, and some ugly and overthought ideas, I finally arrived at placing a Stanley 3 speed blower under the back. It does not get hot down and behind. So it is safe. The nozzle can be aimed and it fits perfectly facing up into the read vent, and I have it on a timer. 5 minutes every hour. Middle speed. Slightly noisey, but we got used to it, and man, does it blast out hot air. This is great solution #1. #2 was a strong 3 speed fan on the floor, about 10 feet away, and aimed at the same spot as your box fan. Works a peach. It swirls air around the room, and into the front part of the house, and towards the back too. Getting the air circulating with this #2 has been also, great. It is 15 degrees out right now. Not that cold, but a tad nippy, and we are toasty in this 1800 sq ft home. I only need to cycle these fans once every hour or so, and on a timer, its just the trick.

Personally, I would at the least get a floor fan that I could aim upwards at the spot above the stove, and let it swirl the air. In your space you have outlined, methinks you would have things reasonably handled in no time. I can say that because of our similar configuration here, where some of the air has to travel three rooms down, and by just aiming this floor fan and aiming it up, and setting to the middle setting, within minutes we are doing fine. Unless it gets to 0 or below, I rarely need to cycle this floor fan more than once an hour for 5 or so minutes. The Stanley blower however blasts from below and behind, and the air that comes out the front and side vents it downright hot. Two fans and a timer, and we are hanging around 76 to 84 in the house. Nice. These ended up being the absolute simplest solutions, and turns out, the best. I tried the box fan idea like you have in your first pic, and this was the least effective of my ideas. The floor fan, 10' away, designed to swirl the air, was the best. Works a peach.

 

[jtrm]

Thank you very much for the ideas. A couple of things I could smack myself for not coming up with. I had not considered timers or coming in from an angle across the top. Right now I had settled in using the box fan about 6 feet or so in front blowing cool are toward the stove and it has given me my best results. I have also contiplaited putting in another ceiling fan in that area. The Stanley blower makes me a little nervous because from what I have seen when I look it up on the internet.... it appears that its size will put its plastic body within the clearance for the stove.... I know it is cool to touch down there but I'm still a good lemming and afraid to step on the rules. When I return home this week I visit our ace hardware and measure. We have had spring like weather the last few days and so have not needed much and my wife tells me it has been very comfortable.

Only 5 minutes or so on the timer. I really anxious to try the timing thing.... I hate running the fan all night. What would you think of one of those convection fans that you can put on top of the stove in place of an angled floor fan... to swirl the air above the stove? Thanks again for the ideas.

 

[drhiii]

Thank you very much for the ideas. A couple of things I could smack myself for not coming up with. I had not considered timers or coming in from an angle across the top. Right now I had settled in using the box fan about 6 feet or so in front blowing cool are toward the stove and it has given me my best results. I have also contiplaited putting in another ceiling fan in that area. The Stanley blower makes me a little nervous because from what I have seen when I look it up on the internet.... it appears that its size will put its plastic body within the clearance for the stove.... I know it is cool to touch down there but I'm still a good lemming and afraid to step on the rules. When I return home this week I visit our ace hardware and measure. We have had spring like weather the last few days and so have not needed much and my wife tells me it has been very comfortable.

Only 5 minutes or so on the timer. I really anxious to try the timing thing.... I hate running the fan all night. What would you think of one of those convection fans that you can put on top of the stove in place of an angled floor fan... to swirl the air above the stove? Thanks again for the ideas.

Understand your reticence about placing anything low and behind the stove, especially plastic-y. As an FYI, I have been running this way for three years with no problems. A prior fan that was actually more substancial, and I watched and measured it constantly, especially during high heat burns with wood like juniper which really crank up my stove. Not a problem. I just found that this Stanley fan pushed a substancial amount of air through and across the vents, and the heat that comes out blew me away. At first I was going to aim the blower portion, which is rectangular nozzle and fit perfectly behind the Napoleon, 1/2 into the back end of the vent, and 1/2 out which would effectively blow air up the backside of the stove, hit the ceiling, and force air outwards, effectively doing the same configuration as that box fan you have in the picture. Frankly, the placement of that box fan scares me far more than the Stanley down and behind where it has always remained cool. I got the Stanley on sale for $40, and aside from the raised sound level which does not bother us when compared to the heat it pushes out, it was a cheap solution, and I have far more control over the amount of air that gets pushed out than a $200 blower add-on.

Matter of fact, it just popped on for its 5 minute push and you can feel the warmth in my office 30 feet away, increase in a couple of minutes. When the temps drop to around 0, that's when I need to push air sideways to the back of our house and I use a second floor fan shooting upwards at a 45 degree angle to swirl air around the room which pushes it down teh hallways and into the other rooms. I have walked into a 48 degree house (we were away for 18 hours and it was 15 out) and had the joint heated within the hour from a cold start using the Napoleon, and the two fans. But this solution has been bang up, cheap, powerful, and customizable. It takes some time to learn the characteristics of all this, the stove, wood types, seasoning, etc. Once I realized how much warmth could be harvested from the Napoleon by just pushing air up through the vent, everything changed. The Stanley changed it in a big way. For 25% of the cost, and I can alter the flow and direction which an internal blower cannot do. I just added another 3' section of pipe outside to gain more draft, and it worked beautifully. Burns are more efficient, I have more control over them, and am actually burning a little less wood but am gaining more efficient, hotter burns. Thanks to 3 more feet.

Ironically, our forced air furnace system went out into the fall and as it was a family member who owns a heating business came and diagnosed the failed component.... did I mention it was a family business? 4 months later, we are still not repaired yet. They are taking their time. So, we have been heating entirely via this stove which doesn't bother me in the slightest. While everyone around me is paying $300-$500 to heat their Victorian homes, our gas bill is $20 or less, for stove and water heater. That plus the satisfaction of going out and cutting and splitting the wood, it is all grand to me. The icing on the cake so to speak was this Stanley, and the extra 3'. During Xmas you could see all the houses around us with single room lights on as I imagined everyone huddled into one or two rooms to keep the fuel costs down when the temps were around 0. People came into our home and instantly remarked at how toasty it was, and how did we do that? Then they see the Napoleon. We are helped by living in a strange weather nexus where it can be -10 one day, and 50 degrees the next. We are in for a spate of +50 degree weather for several days, so I may burn three splits in a 24 hours period, and be just fine.

Just my $0.06.

 

[carp]

I would keep an eye out for creosote since you are cooling the flue

 

[jtrm]

Thanks.... I have pretty well set aside the idea of the fan from the beginning picture..... because of safety and effectiveness..... I had not thought about the creosote. At what temperature does the wall of the stove/window or flue need to be for creosote to remain volatile and not condense on a surface? I'm still pretty much a novice at this. As long as my glass has remained relatively clear and front wall by the door of the stove goes between 350 and 400 I have not been too concerned. Should I be looking at anything else?

Which of the Stanely blowers do you use? I have not found any at local hardware stores here ...... we are in a small town. The model I find most on line is the Stanley #655702 High Velocity Blower..... it seems to be very popular among those growing medicinal hemp at home.

I'm also trying to figure out how to set up a timer to go off for about 5 min each hour. At the stores I have looked at so far I have only found 24 hour timers that 3-6 stops. Is there a type of 60 min one that you have found?

 

[drhiii]

It sounds like you have the Stanley blower described, but here is a link to what I have. Fits perfectly behind and below the vents for the Napoleon 1400. I can adjust it to go full into the vent, or let part of it push air up the outside backside of the stove and have the same effect as the box an you had against the wall. I find that full into the vent produces some mighty hot air, so I have left it their, tho now that I am typing about it... may tweak it slightly and play with air flow up top. http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...=mode+matchallpartial&N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=stanley blower fan&cmnosearch=PPC&cm_ven=PPC&cm_cat=I-search (Google Adwords)&cm_pla=shopsupplies&cm_ite=stanley blower fan

Paid $30 for it on a sale a few months ago. Works a peach. Hemp? Had never head that.... guess I may on some list somewhere but its sole function is hot air behind a Napoleon. A heck of a lot cheaper, and adjustable, than the factory add-on.

I have a correction on the 24 hr timer. On mine I counted 6 slots per hour, which allows it switchable for 10 minute per click. It's a GE and must be 15 years old so doubt that helps ya there. Between the two devices, plus a metal floor fan that is powerful enough to make a hurricane tho I keep it much lower, and only when temps get around 0 or lower, we keep this place nice and toasty.

Thanks.... I have pretty well set aside the idea of the fan from the beginning picture..... because of safety and effectiveness..... I had not thought about the creosote. At what temperature does the wall of the stove/window or flue need to be for creosote to remain volatile and not condense on a surface? I'm still pretty much a novice at this. As long as my glass has remained relatively clear and front wall by the door of the stove goes between 350 and 400 I have not been too concerned. Should I be looking at anything else?

Which of the Stanely blowers do you use? I have not found any at local hardware stores here ...... we are in a small town. The model I find most on line is the Stanley #655702 High Velocity Blower..... it seems to be very popular among those growing medicinal hemp at home.

I'm also trying to figure out how to set up a timer to go off for about 5 min each hour. At the stores I have looked at so far I have only found 24 hour timers that 3-6 stops. Is there a type of 60 min one that you have found?

 

[drhiii]

Let me send model number. The pasted URL turned out rather ugly above...

Stanley Blower Fan, Model# 655702