Napoleon EPI 3T

[bayezid]

Hello!
I have done hours of research and reading and decided to buy Napoleon EPI 3T. My house is single level and it is about 1200 sq ft, and I thought this model would be enough and efficient and good looking!
Insulation in my house is great, I have Harvey windows, brand new, and I thought well, if I buy kiln dried wood, I am all set!
I have exterior masonry wall, that is it is exposed to god awful cold winter weather here in rhode island but after reading other folks comments about heating 2000 sq ft two story houses with this wonder iron blocks, I assumed my relatively small and single level house should be ok.

well, what a disappointment!
Installer charged me double the amount (I verified that with other stores (nearby) for a standard installation. I swallowed that, because I had heard that he is very good at his job
After couple of days trying to heat the house with the insert, I had to invite him to check if I am doing anything wrong, because basically what I've read on these forums and my experience was not matching. He came and observed and he said that I am right, it is not producing enough heat, so he suggested he can replace the stove. I asked him maybe I should switch to a different stove or maybe we need some roxul insulation and block off plate. He said block off plate is nonsense, he wouldn't do it, and he can only replace this with napoleon, but he said he can stuff some roxul around it. I insisted on switching to morso, but he refused, and he told me that I cannot return the product. I called Napoleon several times, no answer! Waited on hold at least half an hour on several occasions and gave up.
I called the installer again and I agreed on replacing it with another napoleon epi 3t and roxul. And I basically begged him for block off plate. He refused to do block off plate again.

two days later he came in with a new stove and roxul. and did his work.
What changed? not much! I am stuck with this product now and I do not know what to do. I spent about 4.5K for the stove and installation!

so my question is, if block off plate really does wonders? if so, since I cannot manage it myself, how can I find an installer who can do this job. There are two other shops nearby, and both says they don't do block off plate!
is there a problem with napoleon epi3t? Any advice will do!
thanks!

 

[double-d]

Block off Plates are not a "cure all", but are beneficial in providing heat and stopping heat loss. For a quick and easy way, to try a block off plate, take some of your Roxul insulation and place it in the damper ares and seal off around the flex liner. That will do the same as the block off plate for now. See if that takes care of your problem, if not, then there are other issues.
The Napoleon EPI3T insert is fine, probably mid range from best to worst. It was rated at 4 stars for heating 1500 SQ FT by someone here.

 

[bayezid]

Block off Plates are not a "cure all", but are beneficial in providing heat and stopping heat loss. For a quick and easy way, to try a block off plate, take some of your Roxul insulation and place it in the damper ares and seal off around the flex liner. That will do the same as the block off plate for now. See if that takes care of your problem, if not, then there are other issues.
The Napoleon EPI3T insert is fine, probably mid range from best to worst. It was rated at 4 stars for heating 1500 SQ FT by someone here.

Thank you for your reply.

There is already Roxul around the insert.
I do not have damper.
As far as what I read on this site, there is a block-off plate church and lots of devoted followers. However, my installer says it is useless since I already have Roxul insulation. Now, 1500sq ft rated, most expensive Napoleon stove cannot heat 300 sq ft room, and my installer says he does not know why.
I talked to several installers, and all them says block-off plate is useless and even though I am ready to pay get that installed, they refuse to do it.
I do not know what to believe anymore.

 

[begreen]

That has to be frustrating. Is there anything unusual about this room like a very high ceiling or all glass walls, leaky old windows?

Did the installer pack roxul insulation around the liner in the damper area or just behind the insert?

FWIW, there is plenty of evidence here in past years of installations that were marginal in heating until an insulated blockoff plate was installed. Some installers that don't want to install them are lazy and think it's extra or too much work.

 

[bholler]

Also what type of wood are you using? what is its moisture content? What is your burn procedure? A block off plate can help but if they really do have it packed well the gain wont be that dramatic.

And there is no downside to blockoff plates they are just being lazy.

 

[stovelark]

Hi Bayezid, understand your frustration. Most here do agree with you, a blockoff plate is beneficial. I'd concentrate on a couple of other things tho, does the stove appear to be burning normally? Is it drafting ok, are you putting a full load of wood in and what burn temps are you seeing? Often these same problems you speak of is nothing more than the quality of the wood. Try a load of pallet wood, maybe a softwood bundle from a food store or something, change the fuel source to isolate it to the stove or the fuel first. I see its a medium sized insert (1.8cuft) firebox, with dry seasoned wood burning properly, it should do the job quite admirably. Let us know what u try.

 

[bayezid]

That has to be frustrating. Is there anything unusual about this room like a very high ceiling or all glass walls, leaky old windows?

Did the installer pack roxul insulation around the liner in the damper area or just behind the insert?

FWIW, there is plenty of evidence here in past years of installations that were marginal in heating until an insulated blockoff plate was installed. Some installers that don't want to install them are lazy and think it's extra or too much work.

Thanks for your reply.

Installer put roxul all around the insert. The liner is not insulated, I asked for it, he said it is unnecessary and wouldn't fit since my flue is tight.
If I can find someone who would install the block-off plate, I'd give a shot at this point since I don't see any other solution, except to conclude that Napoleon EPI 3T is a very expensive garbage.

 

[bayezid]

Also what type of wood are you using? what is its moisture content? What is your burn procedure? A block off plate can help but if they really do have it packed well the gain wont be that dramatic.

And there is no downside to blockoff plates they are just being lazy.

Thanks for the reply.

I bought the very best kiln dried wood from a local firewood company which has great reviews. I do not think the wood is the problem because I also tried other kinds of woods that I bought from local stores. Oak, maple, birch, you name it.

 

[bayezid]

Hi Bayezid, understand your frustration. Most here do agree with you, a blockoff plate is beneficial. I'd concentrate on a couple of other things tho, does the stove appear to be burning normally? Is it drafting ok, are you putting a full load of wood in and what burn temps are you seeing? Often these same problems you speak of is nothing more than the quality of the wood. Try a load of pallet wood, maybe a softwood bundle from a food store or something, change the fuel source to isolate it to the stove or the fuel first. I see its a medium sized insert (1.8cuft) firebox, with dry seasoned wood burning properly, it should do the job quite admirably. Let us know what u try.

Thanks for your reply.

stove seems to be burning normally. when you open the door, you cannot stand in front of it, so hot, but, when I close the door, what blower throws in the house is not 10% of what is inside, temperature-wise.
I tried pallet wood as well. No difference. when I fill it up, it last 2 hours, I don't know about burning hours people get 6,8 even 10 hours. I have to get up and put wood in every two hours. if I close the thing (I don't know how you call it, managing the air intake) all the way, it produce basically zero heat!

I used kiln-dried wood, not seasoned wood.

 

[begreen]

Once the fire is burning well, are you turning down the air supply until the flames start getting lazy or running it wide open?

 

[bholler]

Thanks for the reply.

I bought the very best kiln dried wood from a local firewood company which has great reviews. I do not think the wood is the problem because I also tried other kinds of woods that I bought from local stores. Oak, maple, birch, you name it.

Ok but did you test the moisture content? Most kiln dried stuff is only heated enough to kill bugs not to dry it. What you are describing sounds exactly like wet wood.

 

[RAW Chimney]

Hello!
I have done hours of research and reading and decided to buy Napoleon EPI 3T. My house is single level and it is about 1200 sq ft, and I thought this model would be enough and efficient and good looking!
Insulation in my house is great, I have Harvey windows, brand new, and I thought well, if I buy kiln dried wood, I am all set!
I have exterior masonry wall, that is it is exposed to god awful cold winter weather here in rhode island but after reading other folks comments about heating 2000 sq ft two story houses with this wonder iron blocks, I assumed my relatively small and single level house should be ok.

well, what a disappointment!
Installer charged me double the amount (I verified that with other stores (nearby) for a standard installation. I swallowed that, because I had heard that he is very good at his job
After couple of days trying to heat the house with the insert, I had to invite him to check if I am doing anything wrong, because basically what I've read on these forums and my experience was not matching. He came and observed and he said that I am right, it is not producing enough heat, so he suggested he can replace the stove. I asked him maybe I should switch to a different stove or maybe we need some roxul insulation and block off plate. He said block off plate is nonsense, he wouldn't do it, and he can only replace this with napoleon, but he said he can stuff some roxul around it. I insisted on switching to morso, but he refused, and he told me that I cannot return the product. I called Napoleon several times, no answer! Waited on hold at least half an hour on several occasions and gave up.
I called the installer again and I agreed on replacing it with another napoleon epi 3t and roxul. And I basically begged him for block off plate. He refused to do block off plate again.

two days later he came in with a new stove and roxul. and did his work.
What changed? not much! I am stuck with this product now and I do not know what to do. I spent about 4.5K for the stove and installation!

so my question is, if block off plate really does wonders? if so, since I cannot manage it myself, how can I find an installer who can do this job. There are two other shops nearby, and both says they don't do block off plate!
is there a problem with napoleon epi3t? Any advice will do!
thanks!

How dry is your wood. Have you tested it? When you need to run with draft fully open sounds like wood is not dry enough.

I am assuming you have a masonry chimney with a liner - as you mention roxul and block off plate. Is liner insulated? As for block off plate - I am not a huge fan of them.

How is the fire starting and burning.. you say it seems to be burning normally. Are you letting the secondary burn cycle begin properly - does not sound like it. That unit should easily heat your home.

What number are you calling for Napoleon? 1-866-820-8686

 

[iceman2424]

Have you read the manual? If not, go to section 7.11 (wood). It states that the unit is designed to burn only air dried seasoned hardwood or softwood at 20% (or lower) moisture content.

I've found that kiln dried wood is garbage, and usually sopping wet. I've had lousy fires when I've used it. Just my own personal experience...

In that same section, it also states that you need to fill the firebox to the brim with wood in order to get optimal heat. Use several medium sized pieces as opposed to 2 or 3 big ones. Are you fully loading the firebox with medium/smaller pieces?

Are the firebricks white, and the glass generally clean when you burn? If not that'd be another indicator that the wood isn't up to par.

 

[RAW Chimney]

I've found that kiln dried wood is garbage, and usually sopping wet. I've had lousy fires when I've used it. Just my own personal experience..

I have heard same, although have never seen it. We have so many good firewood suppliers around here with outdoor air dried seasoned wood there is really no need for it. Frankly can not see how it would be cost effective; and only reason to kiln dry might be to kill insects.

In that same section, it also states that you need to fill the firebox to the brim with wood in order to get optimal heat. Use several medium sized pieces as opposed to 2 or 3 big ones. Are you fully loading the firebox?

True. And the proper way to burn any new wood stove. Fill it up.. close it up (once burning to get secondary burn going).. and let it burn down to the end..

 

[bholler]

How dry is your wood. Have you tested it? When you need to run with draft fully open sounds like wood is not dry enough.

I am assuming you have a masonry chimney with a liner - as you mention roxul and block off plate. Is liner insulated? As for block off plate - I am not a huge fan of them.

How is the fire starting and burning.. you say it seems to be burning normally. Are you letting the secondary burn cycle begin properly - does not sound like it. That unit should easily heat your home.

What number are you calling for Napoleon? 1-866-820-8686

Why do you see a problem with blockoff plates? I see absolutly no downside at all.

 

[RAW Chimney]

Why do you see a problem with blockoff plates? I see absolutly no downside at all.

I prefer insulated liner. Am not against them per say; just don't see huge benefit.

 

[bholler]

I prefer insulated liner. Am not against them per say; just don't see huge benefit.

Well yes the liner should still be insulated. We never install any without insulation. But an insulated liner does not stop air heatedby the stove from going up into the chimney cavity. And once it goes up there the heat will be transfered through the masory to outside. On an internal chimney it is not as important but still benificial.

 

[brenndatomu]

an insulated liner does not stop air heatedby the stove from going up into the chimney cavity

We have an external masonry chimney. When I installed our stove in the fireplace I used an insulated liner from the start, had Roxul stuffed all around the liner to seal off the chimney cavity. I was underwhelmed by the performance of the stove considering the size of the room. I then made a blockoff plate, there was a VERY noticeable improvement in performance...only that one change was made between the two fires...I'm a believer

 

[bholler]

We have an external masonry chimney. When I installed our stove in the fireplace I used an insulated liner from the start, had Roxul stuffed all around the liner to seal off the chimney cavity. I was underwhelmed by the performance of the stove considering the size of the room. I then made a blockoff plate, there was a VERY noticeable improvement in performance...only that one change was made between the two fires

Good i have honestly never done a fireplace install with out a plate so i dont know. I just assumed if the upening was packed well eith insulation that would block most of the airmovement making the difference when a plate was added not as dramatic. But it obviously can make a big difference by your experince i was apparently wrong

 

[brenndatomu]

For me, I think part of the issue when there was no blockoff plate, the heat was hanging out in the fireplace above the stove, not sure what that area would be called...the "cavity" below the damper. When I made my plate it totally elimated that area and the plate is tapered from the rear of the fireplace toward the front so the heat gravity flows up and out...works great.

 

[brenndatomu]

Later on I also added "heat shields" on the sides of the fireplace as I noticed when burning 24/7 the fireplace brick got pretty dang warm...so I knew I was "losing" heat to the outdoors that way. I just placed a couple custom cut sheets of metal about 1" away from the brick...the brick does stay cool now...I'm sure it helps, although it wasn't super obvious in stove heat output

 

[begreen]

I prefer insulated liner. Am not against them per say; just don't see huge benefit.

The purpose is quite different. An insulated liner is to make the chimney code compliant and safer. There is a side benefit of warmer flue gases which can mean better draft and a cleaner flue if dry wood is burned. The blockoff plate in this case is to retain heat around the insert body.

 

[RAW Chimney]

The purpose is quite different. An insulated liner is to make the chimney code compliant and safer. There is a side benefit of warmer flue gases which can mean better draft and a cleaner flue if dry wood is burned. The blockoff plate in this case is to retain heat around the insert body.

Understood. Although I do not do a huge amount of work on inserts; well over 80% of my work in on wood stoves and not inserts. I will take a closer look. Thanks.

 

[seaninnj]

Hey OP. Were you able to get better burns in the EPI3? I have to say my experience has been totally different. I needed some help and got Napoleon customer service right away and spoke to somebody extremely knowledgeable and helpful without much effort.

We just installed and EPI3TN traditional with porcelain surround, and so far so good! It’s beautiful and puts out great heat.

We did a stainless liner without insulation and without a block off plate, and the thing gets damn hot and the secondary burn kicks in without too much effort. The trick really is to use seasoned wood, we have plenty of it and so far so good! Invest in a moisture meter if you haven’t done so already, good luck!


Napoleon EPI3TN Majolica Brown