Need a beautiful lifetime stove for SHTF scenario.

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begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,667
South Puget Sound, WA
Properly run, a good cast iron jacketed stove greatly smooths out the temperature swings. The Jotul F45 should also be considered here.
 

Hermit

New Member
Sep 10, 2021
35
Canada
You’re worried about solar flares wiping out the electronic infrastructure of civilization and you keep your savings in crypto? How will you pay your neighbor for grain when your phone dies and all the networks are dead?
Crypto is the future until then buddy. Solar flare could happen anytime between now and 5 decades from now. Not to mention all the other potential catalysts from now until then. I'm tech savvy. I would be a fool to not capitalize on what I know to be coming in the immideate evolution of society because of a potential disaster at some point in my life. Life isn't black and white amigo. I expect the internet to outlast any unbacked fiat currency printed out of thin air.
 

Hermit

New Member
Sep 10, 2021
35
Canada
Yes, there is a big difference from bringing a cold cabin up to temp vs 24/7 heating a small space with wood. I like the T5 a lot for it's robust design, esthetics, ease of use, low maintenance, etc. but in this circumstance a BK stove can run at a lower continuous output which is an advantage. Even then I suspect that in above freezing weather the stove would need to be run in a pulse and glide fashion. The T5 would probably be running at half-loads until temps dropped well below freezing.

It would help to know how this house is currently heated and what the fuel consumption is during winter.
I wish I could tell you our consumption. We use baseboard heaters in every room besides the one the stove is in throughout the winter and used the fireplace as primary heat for the main room.

The firewood we used was wet and not efficient so I definitely don't think you'll get an accurate answer. Just about everything we did with the fireplace was wrong haha.
 

Hermit

New Member
Sep 10, 2021
35
Canada
Two great stoves. If SHTF you can burn furniture in the noncat but a cat can be poisoned if you burn garbage.
What do you mean the cat can be poisoned? Like the cat will stop working? Or something poisonous will actually be emitted from the cat.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
2,032
Long Island NY
Crypto is the future until then buddy. Solar flare could happen anytime between now and 5 decades from now. Not to mention all the other potential catalysts from now until then. I'm tech savvy. I would be a fool to not capitalize on what I know to be coming in the immideate evolution of society because of a potential disaster at some point in my life. Life isn't black and white amigo. I expect the internet to outlast any unbacked fiat currency printed out of thin air.


But this (crypto) kills all your funds when shtf. So you'll have heat then, but not something physical you can barter with.

Most folks with such worries buy a safe and gold...

You're going with what is "the future until shtf" regarding money but don't want to go with the future of wood heating because it might not work when shtf when you can't get spare parts. Just as your crypto would not work when shtf...

I sense an inconsistency...
Or a person who values heat more than the wealth (s)he gathers...
 
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Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,356
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
What do you mean the cat can be poisoned? Like the cat will stop working? Or something poisonous will actually be emitted from the cat.

The cat itself can be quickly poisoned by burning garbage and will be ruined long before the expected 12000 hours. The products of combustion from burning non wood items can damage and prevent the catalyst from working, permanently. This would only happen if you didn’t always have clean firewood. Even a failed cat doesn’t stop you from running the stove at a much lower efficiency.

So long as you last longer than your neighbor, you can burn his house in your noncat stove. Just cut it up.
 
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Hermit

New Member
Sep 10, 2021
35
Canada
But this (crypto) kills all your funds when shtf. So you'll have heat then, but not something physical you can barter with.

Most folks with such worries buy a safe and gold...

You're going with what is "the future until shtf" regarding money but don't want to go with the future of wood heating because it might not work when shtf when you can't get spare parts. Just as your crypto would not work when shtf...

I sense an inconsistency...
Or a person who values heat more than the wealth (s)he gathers...
Who said anything about not having gold? And besides. I have personal timeframes for all this stuff. Why buy gold now when I can wait 1 year and buy 10-100x more gold. I plan to diversify and ween myself off of the system, as I said in the initial post. I didn't say I had already done it all and was ready. I got time my dude. There's no rush.
 

Hermit

New Member
Sep 10, 2021
35
Canada
Perfect. Thanks everyone for the replies. So right now it's looking like I have 3 options.

CAT: Blaze King Ashford 30.2
Non-CAT: Alderlea T5
Jotul F45

What are the primary differences between the Alderlea T5 and the Jotul F45?
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
2,032
Long Island NY
Who said anything about not having gold? And besides. I have personal timeframes for all this stuff. Why buy gold now when I can wait 1 year and buy 10-100x more gold. I plan to diversify and ween myself off of the system, as I said in the initial post. I didn't say I had already done it all and was ready. I got time my dude. There's no rush.

Ok. So you know the shtf won't happen sooner but instead later. Interesting.
 
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stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
2,032
Long Island NY
Perfect. Thanks everyone for the replies. So right now it's looking like I have 3 options.

CAT: Blaze King Ashford 30.2
Non-CAT: Alderlea T5
Jotul F45

What are the primary differences between the Alderlea T5 and the Jotul F45?

Others can answer the t5 vs f45. I also suggest to get parts diagrams and manuals and compare - because for your purposes, having the least amount of consumables, and the least amount of (breakable) mechanics, is important.

Hence I'd suggest to take out the BK from the list. Unless you want a fantastic stove for the time until shtf.
 
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Todd

Minister of Fire
Nov 19, 2005
9,449
NW Wisconsin
Perfect. Thanks everyone for the replies. So right now it's looking like I have 3 options.

CAT: Blaze King Ashford 30.2
Non-CAT: Alderlea T5
Jotul F45

What are the primary differences between the Alderlea T5 and the Jotul F45?
The T5 was on my list but opted for the F45 for the larger cooking surface and the rear vent, otherwise both are well built with stainless baffle systems and have similar burn times.
 

Hermit

New Member
Sep 10, 2021
35
Canada
Looks like we are going to go with the T5. Anyone know of any issues regarding corner install and the swing out warming grates?

What would say is the superior stove between F45 and the T5.
 

EatenByLimestone

Minister of Fire
My stove is in a corner. It's not 45° to the corner, but square to it. I measured my clearances with the trivet closed. I never thought much about it. I followed the manual.

I've never burned the Jotul. I'm sure it's a great stove.
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,277
Southern IN
Looks like we are going to go with the T5. Anyone know of any issues regarding corner install and the swing out warming grates?
What would say is the superior stove between F45 and the T5.
Check the stove out when you pick it up and if everything works OK, I'd think all you'd have to do would be to lube the grate hinges occasionally, like you would the door hinges.
You can also swing them out if you need to cool off the stove top. We were 700+ a couple times, and opening them worked. I think she's pretty good at controlling the heat output, but I installed the blower as a backup if she needs to cool it off a bit. This year, I'll experiment a bit with E-W loading and see what the results are.
From your pics of where the chimney is in relation to the walls, clearance for the grates looks to be no problem; They don't swing totally off of the stove top, anyway.
I'd think the T5 is a simpler stove with less moving parts. A look at the manuals should reveal if that's true.
Choice of three enamel colors on the T5. >>
The F45 gives you the option of rear-venting, which might be handy if your situation changes.
 

Todd

Minister of Fire
Nov 19, 2005
9,449
NW Wisconsin
How close to the corner is your stove pipe? I went with F45 since my pipe was a little over 6” from each corner wall and I wanted a stove with a rear vent so the venting would be straight up and stove tucked back as far as possible.

Are those swing out trivets removable? You may want more surface are for cooking?
 

Woody Stover

Minister of Fire
Dec 25, 2010
12,277
Southern IN
Are those swing out trivets removable? You may want more surface are for cooking?
You can pick them up off their hinges, IIRC.
 
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Hermit

New Member
Sep 10, 2021
35
Canada
So I just called a few dealers asking about the PE and one of them said they have gone to chit and don't carry them anymore. They changed ownership around 8 or so years ago and since then they've had to take back around 30 stoves because they weren't heating well.

How true is this? Just when I thought I had decided I go and get told the stoves are chit now. WTF. Will this stove search never end!?

@begreen @bholler is this true?
 
Last edited:

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,667
South Puget Sound, WA
I have to call BS on that. PE has not changed ownership, nor has Jotul. Sounds like he might have been referring to Vermont Castings or Harman.
 

Hermit

New Member
Sep 10, 2021
35
Canada
I have to call BS on that. PE has not changed ownership, nor has Jotul. Sounds like he might have been referring to Vermont Castings or Harman.
folk okay. Thanks. So my T5 is still a safe bet. Another dealer said something about PE warehouse or shop burning down or something and they're really hard to get right now. But I have a dealer who has one on the way this month. I can call and reserve right now.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,667
South Puget Sound, WA
Haven’t heard anything about a fire. Supply chain issues and steel price jumps are hitting the industry hard this year. Good luck. It’s a good heater and versatile stove.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
19,356
Mt. Rainier Foothills, WA
So I just called a few dealers asking about the PE and one of them said they have gone to chit and don't carry them anymore. They changed ownership around 8 or so years ago and since then they've had to take back around 30 stoves because they weren't heating well.

How true is this? Just when I thought I had decided I go and get told the stoves are chit now. WTF. Will this stove search never end!?

@begreen @bholler is this true?

The most important information that the dealer let out is that he doesn’t sell PE anymore so of course he’s going to prefer that you buy one of the brands that he does sell.
 
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rijim

Feeling the Heat
Jan 19, 2009
250
RI
Looks like we are going to go with the T5. Anyone know of any issues regarding corner install and the swing out warming grates?

What would say is the superior stove between F45 and the T
folk okay. Thanks. So my T5 is still a safe bet. Another dealer said something about PE warehouse or shop burning down or something and they're really hard to get right now. But I have a dealer who has one on the way this month. I can call and reserve right now.
I have never heard anything but good about PE wood stoves, I think I would stay away from that dealer.
 

charger4406

Feeling the Heat
Dec 25, 2011
259
southern Quebec
Supply chain issues and steel price jumps are hitting the industry hard this year. Good luck
I ordered a T6 beginning of June, checked yesterday
with the dealer and he said maybe another 2 weeks
they really are having a hard time with supply,
the only stove they have in stock at the warehouse
is the 4300 Quadra-fire.