Need a little help from the PE Summit owners

[Archilea]

Well, I've had my PE summit for a full year now, and I've been singing the praises of it all year long.

Now I get to the start of a new year, and anxiously set up a small fire, waiting for the cold... It hits 40 degrees F outside at night, and I'm on it!

Trouble is, I cannot get the stove to draw oxygen in (No draft up?) and if I open the door to build up the fire, I start to run out of oxygen in the room ... ACK!

So my questions are:
- Have you ever had the damper control on the stove separate from the handle, so that it doesn't work like it should?
- Or could I have a bird nest blocking the chimney, preventing good draft?
- Can you get a 6" stainless flue liner so filled up with creosote that it won't draft well after a year of burning (Pretty good locust and oak)?

Help! I want to use my baby!

~Archilea

 

[Jimbob]

1) The damper plate can't separate from the handle, it's all one piece.
2) Yes, you could have a bird-nest in the chimney, if the problem seemed to start suddenly this fall.
3) I guess it's possible to get the liner plugged up, but not likely.

Did you clean the chimney last summer?
What do you mean you run out of oxygen in the room? Smoke pouring back in the room. Was it a very windy day there?

 

[Hogwildz]

A cold liner may be downdrafting, use some small very dry kindling and a fire starter and get it flaming then add wood as it starts drafting better.
I run into this a couple times a year if I let it run cold for cleaning etc. You should check & clean that liner minimal pre every burning season. I also do a cleaning around January mid season myself.

 

[Archilea]

Thanks.

I guess I know better, but my chimney is 40 ft up in the air, and the roof is high pitch, which scares the bejeesus out of me. I prefer to let the sweep do the climbing. I got over-anxious and tried to start the first fire of the season... My bad.

I meant that the smoke comes out of the firebox so quickly that the room is uninhabitable within a minute or so, even with the windows open. It was a 10 mph wind outside.

We ran all last year and didn't have this problem. The fire lit, we could close the door and set it to "H" and let it ignite, then turn it down. This year, when I close the door, even the firestarter goes out, like there is no oxygen at all. I finally got the wood starting to burn well, and then closing the door just smothers the flame out, and the wood smolders for hours, coating everything with a thick creosote layer. I can't open it up without filling the room with smoke. There is smoke coming out of the chimney, but not a lot.

I'm having a sweep come by today. On another note, how do you sweep the liner - Does the whole insert have to come out to get access to the bottom of the liner? It's a tight fit where the liner connects to the insert.

Anyone with any other ideas?

 

[RAY_PA]

yikes, good thing the sweep is comming.
You should at least do a cleaning/inspection before the start of every burning season, it is possible you have a bird nest or something in the pipe. The insert should NOT have to be pulled, you remove the baffel and clean the chimney into the fire box, clean up the mess and put the baffel back in and your set to go.
After you make sure there is no blockage in the chimney, and you still have the same problem, it is downdraft...the chimney needs to warm up. You can help your self out a bit by letting the door of the stove open for an hour or so to help heat rise up through the chimney. Then, what works well for me, it a pretty agressive newspaper fire. when it starts to burn out, toss some small dry kindling on it and build up from there.
good luck, keep us posted on the findings of the sweep.

 

[begreen]

Pull out the binoculars and look at the cap. Maybe it's plugged?

The secondary baffle is usually removed to clean the insert. There's a pin in the back that holds it in. Note, you may need a new gasket for the baffle air supply when this is done.

 

[Hogwildz]

Look in your manual for baffle removal directions.
You can remove the baffle, the sweep sweeps the chimney, the crap falls to the stove floor, scoop out, reinstall baffle & done. The baffle gasket is fragile and will most likely break, you can call Tom at Chimneysweeponline and order a 3 pack from him so you have a couple extra for the following cleanings. If its not there before your sweep arrives, just save what you can of the old one and reuse it until the new ones arrive. I made one out of small diameter rope gasket and will be installing it next week or so and testing how well I made it into a loop and see how well it performs.
Don't forget to put the baffle pin back in after the baffle is reinstalled. The baffle is slightly heavy merely due to the awkward position your in while removing it. Its not that bad though.
No need to pull the insert if the liner is a full liner to top of the chimney.

 

[Archilea]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll post when I know something more, but it's always good to have other opinions from the experienced posters here.

 

[Archilea]

Quick update:

I called Chimney Sweeps Online, and spoke to someone else, but they said that they have been trying to get the baffle gaskets for several months. For some reason since they have been getting mentioned on Hearth.com they can't keep them in stock.

So I called my PE dealer from whom I bought the Summit. He said that PE is no longer shipping the inserts with the gasket, and that people were just replacing the baffle without it... Since it didn't come with the stove.

 

[Jimbob]

:-S
Do the stoves work well without the gasket?

 

[iceman]

:-S
Do the stoves work well without the gasket?

yes.. works fine... and i get a better light show in the back of the stove now

 

[snowtime]

Do not believe that dealer. The new Summits and T6 like I have come with gaskets. Mine came with 2 gaskets and I thought it was due to the common knowledge that these heaters put out more heat through better secondary burn that way. I would get gaskets and use 2. They are not expensive so order a bunch. Its always better to be stocked up on inexpensive critical parts.

 

[BrotherBart]

Yeah if PE starts leaving out the gasket they are going to have to run the stoves back through the EPA certification mill. Probably UL also.

 

[Archilea]

Well, if somebody has a source other than ChimneySweepsOnline that has them in stock and will ship them to me, I'd like to know. I figure I'll buy two 3-packs just to have a few spares.

 

[Jimbob]

These guys always have lots:

(broken link removed to http://www.flame.mb.ca/contact.html)

 

[stove man]

There have been rare occassions where mice or spiders have placed a nest in the upper secondary manifold. You can check this out by reversing a shop vac to blow forced air into the secondary air chamber. If this does not provide any success and you have cleaned out the chimney. You may need a outside air intake. It come in a packge for your PE dealer. You can somewhat verify this by opening a window or door slightly while lighting the stove. If you are successful lighting it and getting it to operate wahla you need the outside air intake kit. Good Luck.
stove man

 

[hh3f]

If you have a Sid Harveys in your area you can bring a gasket in and you can buy the material by the sheet and just trace it out and cut with scissors or razor knife. This is what I did. One sheet will make a lot of gaskets. Or if you know a heating contractor he might have some in his van to sell. Cant remember the name of it but its very common and comes in different thicknesses.

(broken link removed to http://www.sidharvey.com/public/product.htm)

scroll down to find a store in your area

When I first bought my stove the gaskets were $2 each. Last year the price went up to $14.95.I said no thanks I'll look elsewhere.

 

[Archilea]

Thanks, JimBob - I'll order shortly. I have no Sid Harveys nearby.

We have never seen a mouse in or even around the house (We have 2 dogs and 4 cats). I doubt it's that, but I'll check.

I thought I had it when I lifted the metal plate at the bottom front of the stove and noticed that the entire space was filled with ashes. I cleaned it out very carefully, realizing that this is the intake area for air (I think). I replaced the plate, and proceeded to light another fire, with lots of kindling and small stuff. I figure dthat I'd get lots of flames, and get the air flowing through the system.

I lit the fire, and it started out pretty well, then I shut the door so the smoke wouldn't get into the room, and went outside to look at the chimney. What I noticed was a bunch of the *really* big European Hornets (About an inch and a quarter long) buzzing around the chimney top... Yikes, those things hurt when they get into you. It feels like a bullet hit you.

So I went back inside and sure enough the flames were out, the wood was smoldering, and the smoke poured into the room when I opened the door. No draft going on at all.

I grabbed the smoldering wood and took it outside to let it cool off.

Man, I HATE those hornets. Did I mention that they hurt?


Stoveman, I don't think that it's a fault with the installation itself, because all last winter I could light a fire in seconds with damp wood. Now I can't even keep the wax and sawdust firestarter burning with a good flame. It's like night and day from March to October of this year.

 

[BrotherBart]

Man, I HATE those hornets. Did I mention that they hurt?

I hear ya. Last year I would be sitting in my office downstairs and all of a sudden Euro hornets everywhere. It was a war down here. Finally I was able to find where they were going in and out of the nest in my masonry chimney and apply chemical WMD.

Was not fun to feel something and look down and have one in my lap.

 

[Hogwildz]

Man, I HATE those hornets. Did I mention that they hurt?

I hear ya. Last year I would be sitting in my office downstairs and all of a sudden Euro hornets everywhere. It was a war down here. Finally I was able to find where they were going in and out of the nest in my masonry chimney and apply chemical WMD.

Was not fun to feel something and look down and have one in my lap.

I heard they had a new treatment for you old guys with ED

Seriously, on a job I was on years ago, they had a nest in a mortar joint of a brick wall. The exterminator used a powder. made out of Macadamia nut shells. Think it may be boric acid power? Not sure.
But that nut shell power had them all dead on the ground the next day or so.

 

[stove man]

firestarter.......time to pull the insert out and check everything. i would begin with the baffle. something is definitely blocking the airway either feeding the stove or exit for exhaust. you may want to get pacifics tech reps on the phone unless you have already done so. how about the dealer ?? where is he in all this?

 

[RAY_PA]

ok, so is it just me that thinks there could be a hornets nest in the chimney to be reducing (if not eliminating) the draft???

 

[stove man]

do you have a clean out in your chimney system. if so you can put a mirror in to see it anything is blocking the light a the top. the hornet nest is a big possibility.

 

[CK-1]

Sweep the full liner or have someone else do it. Seems like a blockage..

 

[Archilea]

That's my plan - Sweep the liner from one end to the other.

And before it turns too cold. I know that most of you live above the Arctic circle or somewhere *really* cold, but hey I grew up in Buffalo - That ought to count for something.

Here in Virginia, it can get down to single digits (Fahrenheit), which will make you dance barefoot across the hardwood floors.

Thanks guys for all the help.