Need advice: new installation smoking back into house: Morso 2B

[paulmlemay]

I recently bought a Morso 2B. Nice little stove. I had the installer put a 6 inch flexible stainless pipe into my fireplace and attach it directly to the top of the stove. No elbows, no funny business. It goes to a cap on top of my chimney. It didn't work well, it would puff back into my living room a lot and my neighbor complained about the smoke. My chimney didn't seem very tall, see photo.

So I had the installing company come back and install a three foot extension. The trouble is it's still puffing into my living room, even with the extension. I'm burning compressed hardwood logs (bio bricks).
Do I need to have them come back and go six feet taller?

 

[moresnow]

What model 2b? Standard or Classic? Both manuals are listed below.

Standard and Classic models both appear to ask for a 16 foot chimney system from stove collar to cap. The manual does note that 16 foot is not required.
How long is your system? Guessing you have a main floor install? Looks like your system may be rather short. Fill everyone in on this detail first.

(broken link removed to https://morsoe.com/media/com_hikashop/upload/safe/72207600_-_2b_standard_na_6739644.pdf)

(broken link removed to https://morsoe.com/media/com_hikashop/upload/safe/72207100_-_2b_classic_na_180383842.pdf)

 

[bholler]

I recently bought a Morso 2B. Nice little stove. I had the installer put a 6 inch flexible stainless pipe into my fireplace and attach it directly to the top of the stove. No elbows, no funny business. It goes to a cap on top of my chimney. It didn't work well, it would puff back into my living room a lot and my neighbor complained about the smoke. My chimney didn't seem very tall, see photo.

So I had the installing company come back and install a three foot extension. The trouble is it's still puffing into my living room, even with the extension. I'm burning compressed hardwood logs (bio bricks).
Do I need to have them come back and go six feet taller?

View attachment 260099

What are the outside temps you are trying to burn in?

 

[yooperdave]

Are you new to burning? The outside temps can affect the draft tremendously.

The warmer the temps are outside, the more difficult it is to establish and maintain a decent draft situation.

Also, check the input air settings on the woodstove. Seems pretty basic, but make sure they are indeed open.

What about the fans in the house. Were there any fans running at the time of the attempted fire? Such as exhaust hood or fart fan in bathrooms?

 

[kennyp2339]

That's one of the troubles with burning exclusively using compressed wood blocks, until you get a good coal bed and really warm stove the blocks tend to smolder away, to be real successful using blocks you need good flow, good base of kindling fire / coals and more then 3 blocks almost together to keep the chemical chain reaction of fire going.

 

[SpaceBus]

I had a hard time starting fires with compressed wood blocks my first winter on the 2B Classic. My chimney is much taller, but interior oversized masonry. Rarely do I ever have issues with smoke now, but our first winter was a bit different. If you have newsprint this can help get the bio bricks going. Roll them into tubes and tie them into a knot in the middle so they don't flop around. The other buildings around you could be affecting your draft as well, but that's hard to prove. Do you have a plumber's propane torch? Since the bio bricks were frustrating to light for us I got a propane torch to help them along. This solved all of our smoke issues. You might even try opening a nearby window on start up to help it get going. The bio bricks can be pretty bad for back puffs into the house if they are smoldering.

 

[paulmlemay]

Thank you guys. I burned in wood stoves all in my youth, in New England. Now semi retired in Coastal California. I'm not used to the temperature difference. Yesterday it was mid 50's but misty drizzle. Californians find this chilly. So I lit the fire. Perhaps that was the problem. The smoke was mostly a problem after four hours when the coal bed was very well established and the air intake was turned down to about 25%. The fire was fine.

I tried this two weeks ago without the extra three foot smokestack on top, with normal firewood and it was a disaster. I watched smoke puff into the living room like a locomotive. That's why I asked them to add the extension. Plus I needed it to help the smoke clear my neighbors house because he has asthma.

When I tried this two weeks ago I used normal firewood. The smoke was thick. It was from a tree that we felled about a year ago in my yard, split and stacked. I have read in many places that compressed hardwood creates less smoke, so I thought I'd try that, to annoy my neighbor less. It does seem to work.

The problem to address here is the chimney not drawing well, and I think you gentlemen have nailed it: not enough temperature difference.

 

[Zack R]

Mid 50's is pretty warm for a fire, getting enough draft will be tough. I'd recommend a fast burning/fast drying wood like pine so that you get the ambiance and heat of a fire without trying to burn the hotter and slower to season hardwoods.

 

[paulmlemay]

I have a Morso 2B standard. Photo attached. I bought it from a well reputed Morso dealer and had them install it. The original brick fireplace brick chimney is 11 feet tall. When it smoked a lot right after installation I had them come back and add the 3 foot extension, so now the total flue from stove to cap is 14 feet. I see now that the manual says 16 feet, but as I had the Morso dealer install it I just trusted them.

The temperature yesterday was 56 outside, and 68 inside so I lit the fire. I see now that it might do better in winter, where we are usually in the high 40's.

 

[SpaceBus]

I burn when the house is cold, regardless of outside temperature. We burned the Morso night before last when it was 45 df outside and we often burn when it's cloudy and 50's outside in the morning or evening. How many fires have you burned in the stove so far? Some times folks think that anything that comes out of the chimney is smoke when it is usually just steam. Even bio bricks still have some water in them. When we burned bio bricks I usually had to close the intake down to 1/2 turn open, maybe 3/4 turn open. When burning cord wood I usually keep it 1 turn or even 1 1/4 turn open.

 

[paulmlemay]

I have burned exactly 2 fires in this stove. The bio bricks definitely make a lot less smoke than cord wood.

Still, perhaps the chimney is a bit short? Last night, with the bio bricks it was fine when it was a couple of turns open and really hot. It only started back smoking when I turned it down to only half a turn open.

The company that installed it put a single walled flexible chimney liner, and then a 3 foot stainless pipe to give me the 14 foot total. Still, if I don't get better results in the winter I might go up there and add a couple of more feet. They told me that 6 feet would be too much for a single walled pipe coming out of the chimney for creosote buildup, and they recommended doing a 6 foot double walled, but they charged me $350 to put up this 3 foot and it will cost $1,200 to go with the six foot double walled.

 

[Corey]

Get yourself a good carbon monoxide detector if you don't already have one. The smoke is one issue, but when the fire dies down and the draft reverses, the CO will come flooding into the house and that can end up bad.

As for draft...

the higher the temps outside (50F) =worse
the higher the humidity outside (raining) = worse
short flue (11ft, then 14ft) = worse
uninsulated pipe (single wall flex, is the three ft un-insulated, too?) = worse

So you've got quite a few things stacked up against you getting a good draft. Very minimum, I'd try to get the entire liner insulated and bare minimum 3 ft exterior insulated flue, if not the 6ft insulated section. Believe that would get you close to the minimum required flue, as mentioned.

Prices seem outrageous to me -first place I looked has 3 ft sticks of double wall, insulated pipe for $72 - five of those would have you a gleaming 15ft insulated flue for about $360 bucks.

 

[SpaceBus]

You will definitely want an insulated chimney. This is a modern EPA approved stove that requires higher draft than the old school cast iron or air tight stoves.

 

[paulmlemay]

Thank you all for the advice. All prices near San Francisco are outrageous. We are just used to it. Normally I do things myself but if I burn the house down my girlfriend will kill me, and my insurance company will screw me. So I paid the authorized Morso dealer to do it. No, I'm not happy they didn't insulate any of the flue, not happy. Wish I had somene to improve it. I'll probably look into that before winter.
Can they insulate the flexible steel pipe that goes up the inside of the chimney?

 

[Corey]

Yes, the flex liner can be insulated. You can find kits for about $250, so likely the installer won't charge you much more than three thousand bucks!

Amazon product ASIN B009KUVZ0U
(This is for a 25 foot kit to do 6" stainless liner. So you're going to have about half of it left over... you could maybe double layer it if there is room in your chimney, or sell half to someone else in the area!)

 

[bholler]

Thank you all for the advice. All prices near San Francisco are outrageous. We are just used to it. Normally I do things myself but if I burn the house down my girlfriend will kill me, and my insurance company will screw me. So I paid the authorized Morso dealer to do it. No, I'm not happy they didn't insulate any of the flue, not happy. Wish I had somene to improve it. I'll probably look into that before winter.
Can they insulate the flexible steel pipe that goes up the inside of the chimney?
View attachment 260124

Yes they can and we're probably required to do so by code

 

[kborndale]

Thank you all for the advice. All prices near San Francisco are outrageous. We are just used to it. Normally I do things myself but if I burn the house down my girlfriend will kill me, and my insurance company will screw me. So I paid the authorized Morso dealer to do it. No, I'm not happy they didn't insulate any of the flue, not happy. Wish I had somene to improve it. I'll probably look into that before winter.
Can they insulate the flexible steel pipe that goes up the inside of the chimney?
View attachment 260124

Unfortunately, just because they are an "authorized morso dealer" does not mean that they know what they are doing.

 

[Mech e]

I have been running our stove the past two days just fine with very similar temperatures. You need to redo the stove pipe install to mfg. and code specs and I think your problems will go away. Having spent a lot of time on the north coast, I can also say having dry wood is an issue and challenge. When you have air that is almost fully saturated, it is very difficult to reduce the moisture content of the wood.

 

[paulmlemay]

I called the installers, they DID use a double walled stainless liner, as per code. The only pipe that is single wall is the top 3 foot extension they added after to get the extra clearance at my neighbors request. I do suspect I will need to go higher in the end but I'll try one more time. It burned fine with a hot fire but when I turned it down with the air intake screw we started getting smoke in the house. The wood is not firewood, it is this stuff, which I believe is dried to 98%

 

[bholler]

I called the installers, they DID use a double walled stainless liner, as per code. The only pipe that is single wall is the top 3 foot extension they added after to get the extra clearance at my neighbors request. I do suspect I will need to go higher in the end but I'll try one more time. It burned fine with a hot fire but when I turned it down with the air intake screw we started getting smoke in the house. The wood is not firewood, it is this stuff, which I believe is dried to 98%
View attachment 260160

Single or double wall has nothing to do with code. Insulation does. When they say doublewall do they mean preinsulated or 2ply smooth wall liner?

That being said with your outside temps I doubt lack of insulation is causing your performance issues.

Do you have a thermometer on the pipe?

 

[bholler]

Get yourself a good carbon monoxide detector if you don't already have one. The smoke is one issue, but when the fire dies down and the draft reverses, the CO will come flooding into the house and that can end up bad.

As for draft...

the higher the temps outside (50F) =worse
the higher the humidity outside (raining) = worse
short flue (11ft, then 14ft) = worse
uninsulated pipe (single wall flex, is the three ft un-insulated, too?) = worse

So you've got quite a few things stacked up against you getting a good draft. Very minimum, I'd try to get the entire liner insulated and bare minimum 3 ft exterior insulated flue, if not the 6ft insulated section. Believe that would get you close to the minimum required flue, as mentioned.

Prices seem outrageous to me -first place I looked has 3 ft sticks of double wall, insulated pipe for $72 - five of those would have you a gleaming 15ft insulated flue for about $360 bucks.

Yes $360 for a cheap chimney with no fittings adapters mounting brackets or labor. I agree the price is high but the right price should be in between the two.

 

[jetsam]

I called the installers, they DID use a double walled stainless liner, as per code. The only pipe that is single wall is the top 3 foot extension they added after to get the extra clearance at my neighbors request. I do suspect I will need to go higher in the end but I'll try one more time. It burned fine with a hot fire but when I turned it down with the air intake screw we started getting smoke in the house. The wood is not firewood, it is this stuff, which I believe is dried to 98%
View attachment 260160

You might want to consisider an electric space heater.... at that price an average 3 cord burner would spend $9000 a year on those things.

Wood is free, though...

If I had to do shoulder season heating in a tiny noncatalytic stove (horrors), I'd save all the branchwood from my wood processing (you'll be starting fires every day due to the tiny size of the stove and lack of low range). Burn a quick hot load of branchwood to warm up the stove, then add some splits on top if more heat is required.

Most burners discard branchwood as it is annoying to process and provides very short burn times, but this is exactly what you want (very short very hot burns to warm up the stove).

 

[Mech e]

This summer, head east to the valley and buy some almond firewood from one of the local farmers. It will be a much better price than the compressed product, be very dry, and burn hot and long.

 

[begreen]

Are you sure they didn't install a 2- ply stainless liner? What's hanging down in the fireplace is not double-wall, pre-insulated liner.

 

[paulmlemay]

Are you sure they didn't install a 2- ply stainless liner? You are absolutely correct. I called and verified.
It's very frustrating.
I tried again yesterday, lit another fire. The fire burned fine, smoke free all day, nice hot fire. Then as the coastal fog rolled in and the fire got a little cooler the house filled with smoke. My eyes watered up and the house smelled like a barbecue.
Obviously something needs to be done and I'm out of my depth.
I am fairly disappointed in the professionals I paid to install this.

The advice I am gleaning from above are: A) insulate the stainless double wall flue liner, B) add height, C) use double walled stainless pipe above the chimney.
Seems like great advice. I'm calling in the cavalry.