Need advice on using a wood stove with/without an existing boiler

[mbk2000]

Hi. I am new to this forum and this will be my first post. I am hoping that some of the experts here can answer a couple (er, maybe a few) questions for me. I am a Floridian now living full time in coastal Maine and this will be our second winter here. All these different types of heating is still somewhat of a mystery to me so here goes...
I have a New Yorker fuel burning boiler in the basement that heats (with a baseboard system) our 1500 sq ft. two story home. The house is old but very well insulated. Needless to say, fuel prices are pretty high and we really want to go all wood.
I want to install a Regency F1100 wood stove in the central part of the first floor, off of one of the two already existing thimbles where one or two wood stoves used to be many years ago. (We think this would be enough heat for the whole house(?) We have big, south facing windows that really warm the place up during the day.)
They would share the same flue which I know is a no-no. So...
Is it feasible to just shut down the boiler more or less permanently and use only the wood stove 24/7 or will we have a problem with freezing pipes in the basement?
If we leave it hooked up, it will fire several times a day in order to maintain it's own hot water supply. Is this dangerous if the wood stove is burning?
Lastly, Is anyone operating on a system like this?
Thanks in advance to anyone who can offer an educated opinion!
~Mb

 

[begreen]

Welcome Mb. Yes, it's feasible to heat 24/7 if one is willing to put in the work necessary to store wood, keep the fire going, etc. You'll need a substantial supply of seasoned, dry wood available.

All your concerns and questions are good ones, but I am a little uncertain about the flues. Is there a dedicated flue available? If yes, you will need it cleaned and inspected. The odds are it will not be safe to connect a stove to if it is not a recently updated chimney. But if the flue is large enough a stainless steel liner can be added to this dedicated flue and it should work fine. This should be checked by an expert.

As to the stove, the 1100 will be too small a stove for your climate, unless it is in a small room. How is the house laid out? Does it have a fairly open 1st floorplan? Is the staircase open and central? If the floorplan allows it, you'll want a larger firebox for reserve heat (for those zero degree nights) and for longer burns. Otherwise you will need to be getting up in 4 hrs to add wood to the fire. I would look for a 2 cu ft firebox stove. The Regency 2400 is about 1.4 cu ft. A better size might be the Regency 3100, Pacific Energy Spectrum, Quadrafire 3100 or Napoleon 1400.

As to the basement concerns, yes, you'll want to be sure that the basement is well sealed as the boiler will cycle a lot less frequently. It should still cycle enough to keep the basement above freezing unless there are serious leaks around the sill plate or windows. If you shut it down completely, then where would the domestic hot water come from?

 

[mbk2000]

Thank you for your reply.
I will have the time for keeping the fire going, I'm always home so that shouldn't be a problem. I agree with you about not being a big enough stove for an all night burn but I'm having a hard time convincing my hubby that we should invest in at least one size bigger.

There is only a single flue in the chimney, about 8-9" across and it is dedicated to the boiler. The insurance company has OK'd the shared usage but I still have safety concerns because I keep reading that it is very unsafe.
the chimney is to be inspected next month before I hook anything up so I suppose he will have some advice for me as well.

The stairs are open and central and the first floor is 900sqft, fairly open for an old house. The upstairs currently has no heat but it gets warm enough up there from rising first floor heat that I have to crack a window at night.

The domestic hot water is a whole other issue that I have yet to figure out, even studying the schematics of the boiler. There is a large electric heater in the basement but I don't know how much it is being used verses the boiler for our domestic water. With the current cost of fuel, I'm thinking it would be more cost effective to go all electric, I just don't know how or if I can shut that beast down. The local fuel supplier has not been very helpful. I guess it's not in their best interest to share that with me.

 

[begreen]

The stove can not share the flue with the oil boiler. I can't believe an insurance agent said that. Check with your local inspector or fire dept. Don't do it.

As to the stove size, a very common mistake is getting the wrong sized stove the first time. Even I have done this in a frugal moment. Tell hubby to let the experts decide. It's less costly to do the job right the first time than to repeat it twice. The stoves mentioned might come in a bit less than the Regency. Though it is sounding like the flue is going to be a significant, up front expense. Get an expert (certified chimenysweep or the stove dealer) to come to the house and evaluate the heating needs and flue options.

Done right, this investment will pay off over time. But it can be a bit of a shock at first. Best to think long term.

 

[JimWalshin845]

I had a forced hot air combo unit (wood/oil) back in the mid 70s. For the work it took to move the wood and up and down stairs to load the stove it wasn't a great idea in the long run.

My neighbor put in a coal boiler add-on in his garage that was piped to his primary oil boiler. He had bagged coal delivered and that house was always roasty-toasty. If he went away the oil burner kicked in so didn't have to worry abou the house freezing up.

Welcome aboard,
Jim

 

[mbk2000]

Oh, I have a wood/coal boiler add on down in the basement too. I don't think it's been used for 20 years or more. Yes, I would hate the idea of hauling wood down there to keep it going.

BeGreen, you are certainly right. I took your advice and called the fire department. It is against code and probably unwise to try to do this.
Aside from installing a second chimney, which is not really an option, how does this sound for a setup:
totally disconnect and brick in the furnace port so as to not use it anymore, install wood stove on existing chimney using old flue. and putting a supplemental propane direct vent heater in the house (like a Rinnai) for backup and vacations in winter? I'm wondering how small I can get away with for the heater if I only want it to keep the house above freezing. I could block off the upstairs during a vacation.
By the way, my husband is taking your advice and opting for the larger stove. You accomplished what I've been trying to convince him of for weeks now. Many thanks!

 

[JimWalshin845]

You may be able to hook up what is called a "power-vent" to your existing oil system which will vent to the side wall of your sill and then use the flue for the new wood boiler.

Just a thought,
Jim

 

[begreen]

Heating a house with wood alone is not a small task. Like running a dairy farm, there is no rest for the weary, you need to keep it up non-stop during the heating season. What happens when you are sick or called away? For that reason the backup system needs to be reliable and adequate.

It might be worth getting an assessment of the current boiler. If it is a dinosaur, no point in spending more money on it. But if it was a well engineered system that needs a bit of updating, this might be a worthwhile investment.

If heating the house by wood as a primary heat source, don't undersize the stove. That means no smaller than 2 cu ft. The PE Spectrum stove is a good long burning stove. You might also want to consider a soapstone stove like a Woodstock.

 

[babalu87]

mbk2000
I have a FHW oil burner (same company ........ New Yorker) and I have been heating with wood 24/7 for three seasons now. My boiler only runs for hot water and we use around 200 gallons a year for a family of four. We shut off the boiler switch every night.

A few things I believe you MUST do, in my humble opinion.

1: Have your FHW system charged with anti-freeze. That way the worry of frozen heat pipes goes away.
2: If you do decide to heat 24/7 with wood, run the boiler and associated baseboard heat twice a year to make sure it all works. If you ever vacationed or something happened you could always fire up the furnace.

Our house has many south facing windows and we rarely have to run the stove during the mid-day hours. An evening fire and a hot one in the AM usually does the trick if the sun is out.

 

[JimWalshin845]

mbk2000

1: Have your FHW system charged with anti-freeze. That way the worry of frozen heat pipes goes away.

Ummmm... what about the domestic water system in the home?

There is a lot more to do to winterize a home than just to stick glycol in the boiler.

 

[mbk2000]

Well, I've received a lot of sound advice here and a lot to think about but now I hope you will tolerate just one more (probably really stupid) question...
(assuming now that I've disconnected and am no longer using the oil furnace)

If I use say, about an 18000btu direct vent lp heater in the main living area for backup or additional heating to my wood stove, is it a good idea to put another wall mounted dv lp heater in the basement or is this unnecessary? If we are away and not firing the stove and just using the main floor backup heater, is there a risk of freezing pipes down there if the first floor stays around 50 degrees? It is a stone unfinished basement with cement floor which I have sealed up to the best of my ability, foaming around entering pipes and plastic over the windows, that sort of thing.

Just to answer in advance any advice for a bigger lp heater on the main floor, it's just not in the budget. Neither is paying 3.10 a gallon to keep the oil furnace going even if we did have a separate flue for it (which we don't). Relying primarily on wood is our plan but I recognize that we do need something else.

 

[JimWalshin845]

is it a good idea to put another wall mounted dv lp heater in the basement or is this unnecessary?

I would think as long as most of the masonary foundation is below ground it would not be necessary.

 

[begreen]

Is the basement completely below grade? If yes, and you caulk and insulate the sill all around the basement and seal any other penetrations or cracks, it should be ok.

One caveat, the changes you are proposing may make the house a bit harder to sell. Most folks want conventional central heating. But who knows maybe that will change in 10 years.

Will you be leaving the boiler intact or taking it out?

 

[JimWalshin845]

One caveat, the changes you are proposing may make the house a bit harder to sell. Most folks want conventional central heating. But who knows maybe that will change in 10 years.
Will you be leaving the boiler intact or taking it out?

In most localities it is in code violation not to have a conventional heating system. You would never get a C of O or get insurance without one if it was new construction!

 

[mbk2000]

Yes, we will be leaving the boiler intact and in place, just not hooked up. Easily remedied should we decide to sell. I've been asking around and it's not unusual around here, with these 100+ year old houses, to have LP fireplace inserts and dv heaters as sole source of heat and this "counts" as central heat so far as the insurance company is concerned. As for our home, we have found an insurance company that will provide, in writing, insurance using a shared flu. But we just dont think its safe to do it, regardless.
This is the best idea I can come up with. We don't want to pay the oil prices, we otherwise have no backup emergency heat should we loose power and, gosh darnit, I want a wood stove.
Other than that, the idea power-venting of the oil furnace is a very good option, if it can be done. But it is sitting several feet from an outside wall. I'll have to call about that tomorrow.
Any other good and cheap(ish) ideas?

 

[otsegony]

I have an oil boiler and a wood stove in my basement. Since we've been using the wood stove we have used the boiler very little for heat in an area that is known for long, cold winters. My wood stove has its own stainless steel chimney and the oil burner is vented through a power vent. Personally, I don't recommend the power vent option. It works well enough, but it is loud and blows diesel smelling fumes out at nose level. Since I've built the house I've been told that they are prone to breaking down at the worst possible time and shutting your heating system down. At the time I also priced various LP options and found that the LP gas was as expensive as electricity on a direct comparison basis. For me, I would consider simply leaving the oil system in place and have a good wood stove installed by a professional. You will get all the benefits of wood heat and still have the oil system in place in case you need it.

 

[eernest4]

My two cents worth,if it was me doing it, I would buy a englander model 30 ncl, epa secondary burn wood stove ,rated 75,000 btu & 2000 sq ft. Brother Bart uses this stove as primary heat for his 2,500 sq ft house. 8 to 9 hr full load overnight burn time. They sell for just under $800.oo new. home depot and lowes both carry them. Lowes calls it summerheat but same stove , same factory,interchangable parts.

This will probably save you money from the stove you were looking at and use the savings to
install a double wall stainless 6 inch chimney, right up through the roof, dedicated to the wood stove and keep your oil burner system & chimney, intact as a automatic back up, if you have to be away for some reason.

Check out the pricing & make your own choice.

I have been heating with wood stove primary heat, 3000 sq ft, for 2 yrs now, with my oil burner as backup. The first year, I cut my oil bill by 66%. This year, I am looking to cut my oil bill by 85% or better.

Trouble is ,ma is 95 years old & insists on 74 degrees, or she starts complaining, so 74 it is.

My friends say , oh,its real hot in here! They used to 66 deg.

Choose wisely, as they say in indiana jones 3. :coolsmile:

 

[begreen]

This house is only 1500 sq ft. The 30 NC is a good stove, but would be overkill here, IMHO. I think a 3 cu ft stove might drive them out of the house.