Need advice to aid install of a wood burning stove - total newbie

[djhep]

Hi all.
Firstly i would like to introduce myself...Dave is the name and i am based in a chilly part of Southern Spain. (in winter that is)
I'm so pleased to have stumbled upon this site, as i am in the process of reforming a house and want to install a wood burning stove.


I have no idea where to even start with this install, but want to make sure that i don't end up burning down the house, so some basic advice would be really welcome, and most appreciated

A bit of info about the property

1.House is 3 storeys, with the garage taking up the first (ground floor).

2. The main living area is on the middle floor (lounge is 26ft x 15ft x 10ft high) there is also a bedroom and kitchen (total 700 sq ft floor area).

3. The guest bedrooms and bathroom are on the upper floor (total 500 sq ft floor area

4. There is no chimney in the property.

5. Alternative heating is available in the form of AC/heating units.

6. I have a multi fuel stove available, which is a Firefox 8 and is free standing (I would like to use this, but if it is felt to be unsuitable, would look at purchasing something more suitable). I will be burning only wood.

7. Floors are concrete construction with hardwood finish on top.

8. Stove would sit on the middle floor in the lounge, and flue would pass through the lounge ceiling (concrete) into the top floor accomodation (hopefully to aid with heating), and then out through the roof (concrete construction)
No bends would be required.

My questions are.

1. How close to the exterior wall can i place the stove. ( i would like to place it as close as possible), Wall is a double brick construction with plaster rendering to the interior and exterior. There is a polystrene type insulation in the cavity.

2. On what kind of base would the fire need to stand?, bearing in mind the floor covering is wood (would a sheet of 1" thick marble suffice)

3. What type of flue is recommended? (Here in Spain, they generally use a single skin flue. I'm worried about this )

4. A hole will have to be made in the upper floor and the roof to accomodate the flue. What clearance is adviseable around the flue?.

5. How high should the flue stick out from where it exits the roof.

6. Lastly, and most importantly, is what i am planning to do here fundamentally wrong LOL.....


Any help here will be greatly, greatly appreciated.

Best Regards.


Dave.

 

[tiber]

Weirdly enough international firecode is consistent... internationally!

My concern is for #8 - concrete ceiling construction is generally slab, and it's really - and I mean really - tough to bore through. You would be much better served with a wall thimble in your case. How old is the building? If it's from 1960s or older - it's solid slab. If it's 1960s or newer, it's hollow slab and this is easier to get through. The big problem is going to be making a six inch hole which is why I'm suggesting a thimble.

#1 - Single wall is 350mm, double wall is 200mm. This is covered in the EN 13240 standards sheet which will come with the stove. You can probably request a copy, but 300/200 is the minimum for single/double wall stovepipe in europe.
#2 - Yes marble is fine. Europe doesn't have a standard hearth pad size, but Canadian code is 200mm out the side and 450mm out the front.
#3 - Double wall stove pipe (black). Double wall chimney pipe. Canadian chimney pipe is different than American chimney pipe if you're buying double-wall and Spain would use the Canadian codes.
#4 - 21mm to combustible surfaces for IFC (international fire code per canadia or spain). This is awfully close and less than half the distance per US standards. In the US, we have to use 2 inches. You might want to consider this...
#5 - What's the shape of your roof?
#6 - I know spain is on IFC clearances for codes, but what's code enforcement look like in spain? You may very well want to talk to your local building inspector, etc to make sure there's no laws we're unaware of. Typically the readership to this site is in the US or Canada. I only happen to know this stuff because I work for a company with an international interest and can ask.

 

[Wood Duck]

for question #2 tiber wrote that marble is a sufficient barrier between the stove and the wood floor. I am under the impression that the hearth pad under the stove must meet a certain 'R' value, or insulation value, in order to be acceptable. At least in the US it does. The required 'R" value varies between stoves. Am I wrong about this? I don't think there is anything wrong with marble, the quesiton is how thick the marble should be.

Also, new wood stoves are uch more efficient than older stoves. I am not familiar with your stove, but you might consider a new, more efficient stove to save wood and reduce the effort needed to feed the stove.

Finally, does it really get chilly in southern Spain?

 

[DanCorcoran]

tiber,

You said, "marble is fine". I read somewhere that marble is not a very good insulator. Doesn't the real answer depend on the R-value for the hearthpad required by the particular stove the OP purchases?

 

[tiber]

RE: Marble... (consulting our building guy)...

He says "most places in europe only want noncombustible", they don't really specify anything beyond that but he also said local laws may be more restrictive to the code.

However, if you want something to really blow your mind - this is apparently par the course:

It blows my mind they would encourage storing fuel under the stove.

 

[djhep]

Thanks for the great response guys.
I really appreciate it, as it gives me somewhere to start when talking to the builders.

My main reason for wanting to go from the lounge, (where the stove is situated), and through the concrete ceiling, into the bedroom above is to capture some of the heat from the flue in the upper floor. (builders say that they can creat a hole without problems)
I hope you don't mind if i add another couple of questions here, just to clarify in my head what i need to be looking at......

1. Is it recommended that i use a double skin flue throughout (from lounge up through next floor, and out through roof)?

2. If so would there be a beneficial amount of heat radiating from a 10ft length (floor to ceiling) to make a noticible difference in the 200ft sq. bedroom above the room where the stove is situated.


Some of you guys will probably think we are wimps here in Spain for worrying about heating, but it isn't really the extreme cold that gets you.
Daytime temps can be 25 degrees centigrade in winter, which is great, and one of the main reasons why Northern Europeans flock here, but up here in the mountain villages, temps can regularly drop to -3 during the night, and that feels chilly to me LOL.......

Very best Regards.

Dave

 

[tiber]

#1 - Double wall stove pipe and double wall class A are two different pipes. The thimble-rule applies, where going through a wall/floor/ceiling requires a transition from stove pipe to class A pipe, but the pipes don't need to be enclosed. Basically the stovepipe is supposed to radiate heat, but the class A pipe is supposed to keep heat in for the purposes of evacuating creosote before it can condense.
#2 - If you're dead set on putting holes in concrete, install heating registers instead. This is simply a hole covered in a grate like a very small duct. This will ensure warm air can pass from the stove room to the upstairs room.

Again, I'm only asking one of our building engineers at work and keep in mind I'm American, working for an American company. We're not familiar with local code beyond the international code and what he knows (from Germany). He knows about Europe and fire code and stoves, but you would really want to make sure you're OK with local laws.

 

[Dakotas Dad]

RE: Marble... (consulting our building guy)...

He says "most places in europe only want noncombustible", they don't really specify anything beyond that but he also said local laws may be more restrictive to the code.

However, if you want something to really blow your mind - this is apparently par the course:

It blows my mind they would encourage storing fuel under the stove.

If the fuel under the stove seems odd to you.. go over to the "pets with stoves" thread... somebody in that thread stores a cat under there.

 

[tiber]

If the fuel under the stove seems odd to you.. go over to the "pets with stoves" thread... somebody in that thread stores a cat under there.

Cats have one paw shaking the devils hand anyway, they're clearly noncombustible

(I say this as the pet of two such cats)....

 

[wendell]

My Morso is made to put wood under it and it took me half my first winter to even think about trying it (and never did it again) but if you put your hand in that space it is actually cool.