Need Help - Connecting Jotul F500 to Chimney! - large images

[hardcore]

Didn't anticipate connecting my Jotul F500 to my chimney being this difficult.

I'm using Selkirk Chimney and it's proving to be a battle. For 1, I live up north and have to get all the parts shipped in. Second, they don't seem to fit together as nicely as I thought they would. This is my first install so my expectation might be too high, but I have taken some pictures as the documentation provided with the selkirk DSP stove pipe is very lacking.

PROBLEM #1

I have both stove adapters made by Selkirk. One is for a recessed flue and the other is not. The recessed flue stove adapter fits much better, but I still have a problem... or maybe not... that is where I will enlist the help of you guys.

This is the Flush Stove Adapter that I have.

The single wall section of the pipe inserts pretty good into the flue of the jotul f500. I push it down until it hits the start of the double wall. The lip on the jotul's flue is pretty thick, so I cannot get the double wall to completely tuck over the flue. I'm worried it may leak a lot of smoke and also let a lot of heat escape out the back of the stove pipe creating a fire hazard. I felt on the inside of the stove adapter and it is very tight against the back, but the sides and front have a gap. I'm pretty sure it is sealed well enough, but If I'm installing it improperly I want to know. Like I said, I'm new at this, so I might be over cautious about it all.

PROBLEM # 2

I purchased a universal chimney adapter to fit the double wall stove pipe to my chimney. It just doesn't work very well. What I mean by that is it is pretty loose. So I was reading in the "instructions" for the stove pipe that you can use a finishing band rather than the universal adapter. So I put my 45 degree elbow right on my chimney and it fit perfect. (picture below) The only thing I'm worried about is that they don't say you can use a 45 degree as a connector to the chimney. They only mention using a telescopic arm, which I do have. I want my 2 45 degrees as high as possible above my stove as I heard it is best to put the straight chimney close to the stove and then offset it close to the chimney. I hope I'm making sense. Then, reading again in the instructions, it only mentions offset installations with the use of a T. Ohh for goodness sakes... Do I need to do a T???!? Please tell me I can just run straight up from my stove, then attach a 45 - 12" - 45 and connect to the chimney. Picture below.

 

[YZF1R]

There are plenty here that know more about this than I, but I think you have your pipes upside down. The one above fits in the one below, not over it. That way, any creosote or hot ash falls inside the stove and not out.

Steve

Edit: Ah, maybe it is correct. I forgot about it being double wall. Don't worry, one of the many good people here who know will chime in shortly I'm sure.

 

[MrKenmore]

I have an Oslo 500. I have a similar setup, Stove pipe adapter on top of the stove, telescoping section, two 45 degree elbows to give the necessary offset, one 24 inch section and then I am at the ceiling, However, mine is all single wall (Metal Fab brand - good product IMHO). I do not see why you would need a T. That makes no sense. My mom had a setup just like yours with double wall (Metalbestos) without any issues. You should have a small piece of pipe connected to the class A at the ceiling that your 45 is slipped onto right?

 

[begreen]

There are plenty here that know more about this than I, but I think you have your pipes upside down. The one above fits in the one below, not over it. That way, any creosote or hot ash falls inside the stove and not out.

Steve

Edit: Ah, maybe it is correct. I forgot about it being double wall. Don't worry, one of the many good people here who know will chime in shortly I'm sure.

Yes, crimps point towards the stove, not the flue cap.

 

[learnin to burn]

Be Green - He has double wall Selkerk DSP, When installed it looks wrong. He should have a cheese trim piece (finishing band) to cover up the top connection.

Hardcore - Are you able to put 2 or 3 screws in the stove adapter to secure it to the stove? If so, you should be fine with that adapter, if not check to see if the other adapter will seat properly.
No you do not need a T
Yes the 45 can be connected the way you have it. The finishing band will cover the crimps next to the ceiling.

 

[hardcore]

Be Green - He has double wall Selkerk DSP, When installed it looks wrong. He should have a cheese trim piece (finishing band) to cover up the top connection.

Hardcore - Are you able to put 2 or 3 screws in the stove adapter to secure it to the stove?

There are only 2 screw holes on the flue of the Jotul F500. They are large ones and they don't tap into the stove pipe. Looks more like just a compression screw, which imo seems kind of weird because it would probably just push the stove pipe. The stove is used, but in great shape, so I'm not sure if the parts I have are the original manufacturers. I will probably modify it by drilling the stove adapter to the same diameter as the screw holes and the threading a nut on the end and tighten it up to keep the stove pipe adapter in place. I can take more pictures if you guys need.

If so, you should be fine with that adapter, if not check to see if the other adapter will seat properly.
No you do not need a T
Yes the 45 can be connected the way you have it. The finishing band will cover the crimps next to the ceiling.

I really appreciate all the help! The other adapter won't seat as well because it is double wall right to the bottom. Glad to hear I won't need a T. I have the finishing bands to cover the joint from the ceiling to the stove pipe. The pipe is installed in the proper direction. It just looks funny because it is double wall and the crimped end actually fits between the 2 layers of pipe on top of it.

Thanks again! Any other help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[CarbonNeutral]

There are only 2 screw holes on the flue of the Jotul F500. They are large ones and they don't tap into the stove pipe. Looks more like just a compression screw, which imo seems kind of weird because it would probably just push the stove pipe. The stove is used, but in great shape, so I'm not sure if the parts I have are the original manufacturers. I will probably modify it by drilling the stove adapter to the same diameter as the screw holes and the threading a nut on the end and tighten it up to keep the stove pipe adapter in place. I can take more pictures if you guys need.

In the manual it tells you what to do here - push the pipe all the way in, mark where the holes are, drill two 5.5mm holes (7/32s?), use stove cement. Works fine. Don't know about the rest.

 

[hardcore]

There are only 2 screw holes on the flue of the Jotul F500. They are large ones and they don't tap into the stove pipe. Looks more like just a compression screw, which imo seems kind of weird because it would probably just push the stove pipe. The stove is used, but in great shape, so I'm not sure if the parts I have are the original manufacturers. I will probably modify it by drilling the stove adapter to the same diameter as the screw holes and the threading a nut on the end and tighten it up to keep the stove pipe adapter in place. I can take more pictures if you guys need.

In the manual it tells you what to do here - push the pipe all the way in, mark where the holes are, drill two 5.5mm holes (7/32s?), use stove cement. Works fine. Don't know about the rest.

Okay, I have the manual right here and I can't find any reference to drilling 2 holes and using stove cement.

Can you tell me what page you found it on?

Thanks

 

[CarbonNeutral]

There are only 2 screw holes on the flue of the Jotul F500. They are large ones and they don't tap into the stove pipe. Looks more like just a compression screw, which imo seems kind of weird because it would probably just push the stove pipe. The stove is used, but in great shape, so I'm not sure if the parts I have are the original manufacturers. I will probably modify it by drilling the stove adapter to the same diameter as the screw holes and the threading a nut on the end and tighten it up to keep the stove pipe adapter in place. I can take more pictures if you guys need.

In the manual it tells you what to do here - push the pipe all the way in, mark where the holes are, drill two 5.5mm holes (7/32s?), use stove cement. Works fine. Don't know about the rest.

Okay, I have the manual right here and I can't find any reference to drilling 2 holes and using stove cement.

Can you tell me what page you found it on?

Thanks

It will be in one of the other 'manuals'. I had three - it drives me crazy that a company that puts out a great product, that costs a bunch of money, can't produce a single manual for a single market - Hence the 5.5mm screw holes as the section in the correct manual is in the 'English' section - but presumably UK English....

I will check at home tonight if you haven't found it already.

 

[hardcore]

Well, I've decided to return my Selkirk Pipe. All jotul dealers I have called all use ICC stove pipe. The website shows a stove adapter that actually makes sense. The selkirk stove adapters leave a LOT to be desired!

It will be another couple of weeks before I can get the ICC stove pipe.

Thanks again for all of the help.

 

[CarbonNeutral]

I'm on Simpson - but the last section from the thimble was single wall black pipe from Aubuchon hardware - crimped end into stove, pretty easy

 

[hardcore]

Mounting of flue pipe
The stove is installed with a 150 mm diameter flue pipe. This must
be an approved thickness.
The flue outlet for Jøtul F 500 is inside the burn chamber during
transportation. You can choose between a top or rear outlet from
the flue pipe. The screws for fastening are in the bag containing
screws.
1. Flue pipes 150 mm dia. are placed directly onto the product
flue outlet. There is a screw on both sides of the product flue
outlet (fig. 3A). These are used to fasten the flue pipe.
2. Mark where the screws hit the flue pipe when it is at the
very bottom of the flue outlet and drill a 5,5 mm hole for the
screw in the flue pipe.
3. Use gasket and cement to seal between flue pipe and product
flue outlet. Place the gasket around the lower part of the flue
pipe and fill up the space with cement.
4. Fasten the flue pipe with screws.
Note! It is important that the joints are completely sealed. Air
leakage etc. may lead to malfunction.

Okay, does 'flue pipe' = 'stove pipe'.

Just trying to get my terminology straight. Am I understanding this correctly that once the stove pipe is installed, you should use gasket and stove cement to seal around the edge of the stove pipe?

Does everyone do that?

If that is the case, then I should be able to make this selkirk pipe work.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

Also, just noticed this: I only thought you needed a bottom heat shield for use in an alcove, but quoting from the installation manual:

A heat shield for the floor shall always be used. A heat shield
for the back can be ordered and mounted depending on the
position of the fireplace and the desired distance to combustible
materials. See fig. 1.

 

[CarbonNeutral]

Point 1: The gasket is for between the stove body and the flue outlet Jotul provides - big heavy thing. No gasket between this and the stove pipe

Point 2: By far Jotul's most irritating thing. As far as I understood it, no required R-value. If you search my posts where I've talked about it - people have confirmed this with Jotul US. I use the included bottom heat shield anyway, even though the manual makes no reference to what it actually does....

 

[learnin to burn]

It is not a requirement to use the stove cement on the stove adapter or the joints in the stove pipe. But you certainly can do that to make it work.

 

[hardcore]

Point 1: The gasket is for between the stove body and the flue outlet Jotul provides - big heavy thing. No gasket between this and the stove pipe

Point 2: By far Jotul's most irritating thing. As far as I understood it, no required R-value. If you search my posts where I've talked about it - people have confirmed this with Jotul US. I use the included bottom heat shield anyway, even though the manual makes no reference to what it actually does....

Okay, thanks for clarifying. Also, I bought my jotul used and there was no bottom heat shield. Are they included in new packages?

Thanks

 

[szmaine]

Point 1: The gasket is for between the stove body and the flue outlet Jotul provides - big heavy thing. No gasket between this and the stove pipe

Point 2: By far Jotul's most irritating thing. As far as I understood it, no required R-value. If you search my posts where I've talked about it - people have confirmed this with Jotul US. I use the included bottom heat shield anyway, even though the manual makes no reference to what it actually does....

Okay, thanks for clarifying. Also, I bought my jotul used and there was no bottom heat shield. Are they included in new packages?

Thanks

Yes, they are. Purchased separately it will cost ~$ 80-85, ghastly!

 

[CarbonNeutral]

Yes, they are. Purchased separately it will cost ~$ 80-85, ghastly!

Which is horrific considering that it's nothing complicated, and I'm sure if you made the mistake of bending the 'arms' more than a couple of times, they would snap off.

If you're at all handy. get some sheet steel, cut to size, four bends, two holes. Done.

 

[firefighterjake]

Gasket goes on the flue outlet connection.

Stove cement not necessary for the flue pipes . . . never used the stuff on the flue pipes. No issues. I do have the required screws however holding the flue pipe together.

Bottom heat shield . . . comes standard with a new stove purchase. Works well in conjunction with the ash pan to really dissipate the heat beneath the stove.

 

[hardcore]

Not sure if I should keep posting in this thread or not, but what does "ALTERNATE FLOOR PROTECTION" mean?

Key word here is "alternate" What does that mean? Alternate to what? All stove require being built on a non-combustible surface....

Do I require an insulating r value of 0.5 then?

Some manual version say yes, others do not mention, or else mention the F600!?!?

I know there was a thread about this ealier... maybe I should post there.

 

[szmaine]

Not sure if I should keep posting in this thread or not, but what does "ALTERNATE FLOOR PROTECTION" mean?

Key word here is "alternate" What does that mean? Alternate to what? All stove require being built on a non-combustible surface....

Do I require an insulating r value of 0.5 then?

Some manual version say yes, others do not mention, or else mention the F600!?!?

I know there was a thread about this ealier... maybe I should post there.

Yes all do require non-combustable suface, at least. Some require much more

I believe "Alternate Floor Protection" refers to the specifications given for the construction of a hearth pad (or puchase of a pre-built unit as offered many places, ) See appendix A of the manual - if the proposed location of those stove does not meet the requirement's this section gives an example of how they may be met. Simple as that.

If the manual goes with your stove (same time period) then yes - the manual that came with mine has no r requirement -I was told by the dealer that Jotul made some changes in the firebox that caused the requirement to drop.

 

[hardcore]

Not sure if I should keep posting in this thread or not, but what does "ALTERNATE FLOOR PROTECTION" mean?

Key word here is "alternate" What does that mean? Alternate to what? All stove require being built on a non-combustible surface....

Do I require an insulating r value of 0.5 then?

Some manual version say yes, others do not mention, or else mention the F600!?!?

I know there was a thread about this ealier... maybe I should post there.

Yes all do require non-combustable suface, at least. Some require much more

I believe "Alternate Floor Protection" refers to the specifications given for the construction of a hearth pad (or puchase of a pre-built unit as offered many places, ) See appendix A of the manual - if the proposed location of those stove does not meet the requirement's this section gives an example of how they may be met. Simple as that.

If the manual goes with your stove (same time period) then yes - the manual that came with mine has no r requirement -I was told by the dealer that Jotul made some changes in the firebox that caused the requirement to drop.

How does one know which manual belongs to your stove? There are no serial number's listed on the manuals. The one I downloaded off the website shows no R value requirement. It doesn't even mention years of stove and their effective R value req.

Boy is this ever frustrating. Tried calling jotul techincal service and they haven't returned my phone call yet.

 

[szmaine]

How does one know which manual belongs to your stove? There are no serial number's listed on the manuals. The one I downloaded off the website shows no R value requirement. It doesn't even mention years of stove and their effective R value req.

Boy is this ever frustrating. Tried calling jotul techincal service and they haven't returned my phone call yet.[/quote]

Well, what are you putting the stove on now? perhaps it already is R=0.5 that not alot of R's.

 

[hardcore]

Well, what are you putting the stove on now? perhaps it already is R=0.5 that not alot of R's.

I don't have 0.5 that is for sure.

I have 1/2" durock and 1/4" porcelain tiles on top of that. I calculate about .31 r value with my current setup.

I constructed my hearth to the proper specifications according to the manual provided on the Jotul Website. I put 1/2" durock down just as a buffer as the manual for the stove does not state any R value requirements. Then when I get my stove, the manual has highlighted in red. R Value required of 0.5.

I have so far found about 3 separate manuals floating around the internet. All are slightly different. I understand that fireboxes can change and also the requirements that go with it, but it is very annoying to not even document which serial numbers go with which requirements.

 

[szmaine]

Well, what are you putting the stove on now? perhaps it already is R=0.5 that not alot of R's.

I don't have 0.5 that is for sure.

I have 1/2" durock and 1/4" porcelain tiles on top of that. I calculate about .31 r value with my current setup.

I constructed my hearth to the proper specifications according to the manual provided on the Jotul Website. I put 1/2" durock down just as a buffer as the manual for the stove does not state any R value requirements. Then when I get my stove, the manual has highlighted in red. R Value required of 0.5.

I have so far found about 3 separate manuals floating around the internet. All are slightly different. I understand that fireboxes can change and also the requirements that go with it, but it is very annoying to not even document which serial numbers go with which requirements.

I assuming that the previous owner gave you that manual with the stove, yes? If was their manual, then it would go with that stove?
If I were you I'd get the final scoop from Jotul. I wouldn't want to remake the hearth either but I'd want peace of mind.
Find out first if it even applies to you - you have a serail# and year on the back of the stove, right?
If it does apply, ask if it will be enough to get the bottom heat shield on - you are not far off from R 0.5.

Anyway, try to relax - soon it will be done and you'll have a great stove installed.

 

[hardcore]

Well, what are you putting the stove on now? perhaps it already is R=0.5 that not alot of R's.

I don't have 0.5 that is for sure.

I have 1/2" durock and 1/4" porcelain tiles on top of that. I calculate about .31 r value with my current setup.

I constructed my hearth to the proper specifications according to the manual provided on the Jotul Website. I put 1/2" durock down just as a buffer as the manual for the stove does not state any R value requirements. Then when I get my stove, the manual has highlighted in red. R Value required of 0.5.

I have so far found about 3 separate manuals floating around the internet. All are slightly different. I understand that fireboxes can change and also the requirements that go with it, but it is very annoying to not even document which serial numbers go with which requirements.

I assuming that the previous owner gave you that manual with the stove, yes? If was their manual, then it would go with that stove?
If I were you I'd get the final scoop from Jotul. I wouldn't want to remake the hearth either but I'd want peace of mind.
Find out first if it even applies to you - you have a serail# and year on the back of the stove, right?
If it does apply, ask if it will be enough to get the bottom heat shield on - you are not far off from R 0.5.

Anyway, try to relax - soon it will be done and you'll have a great stove installed.

Ya, good point on just relaxing! Thanks for the advice! I hope jotul returns my phone call.