Need help deciding on New Harman Accentra 52i or used PF100

[turbotboz]

Hi guys,

Just like the add says- I need some help deciding on the 52i insert or the PF100 furnace. Our home is 3400 sqft rambler on an unfinished basement and currently 100% propane. I refuse to go through another winter spending $4000+ on propane.

My quote on replacing the propane insert fireplace with the 52i was about $6100.
The used PF100 is $2600 and is about 5 years old.

Harman 52i:
We have a very open floor plan but the house is very long. The pellet stove location is our sunroom/living room. This shares an open space with the kitchen and dining area. My concern is that the 52i won't suffice as a primary heat source.

Pros: looks, local heat to our living space, new.
Cons: cost, uneven heat distribution, storing pellets near our living space, may still need propane to supplement.

The local Harman installer did a site visit and didn't think I'd have any issues with even heat, however he also assumed the house was ~2200 sqft after I gave him the tour. Not sure I want to proceed based on his opinion.

Harman PF100:
The pellet furnace would be located in the basement. I don't think we'd have any problems heating the entire house with this unit. However, I've never had a pellet stove, let alone a furnace. So I am slightly reluctant to diving into a used unit. I'm unsure of problems and maintenance they may need or have a history of needing. The only other negative for the furnace is its location... 9 hours from me.

Pros: even heat, plenty of room in basement to store pellets, eliminate propane use, larger hopper.
Cons: being 5 years old, still have a worthless propane fireplace in the living room, driving distance to pickup, unknown history outside of what the owner decides to tell me.

The owner claims he is selling it because he travels quite a bit and can't rely on it for his sole heat source while he is away (runs out of pellets). He plans to buy a regular pellet stove to use while he is home and use an oil furnace while he is away. He is not negotiable on price

What would you guys do? Which of the above would you pick, or would you pick a different route? I'm all ears. Any opinions or suggestions are welcome. I'm ready to pull the trigger on something before the cold hits. Sorry for the long post...

Travis

 

[Big papa]

Well you got two different beasts here wich would you appreciate more.one may not heat the hole house but it still can reduce your heating cost dramatically the accentra would give you the feel of a fireplace in your living area keeping the space you spend the most time in toasty. The PF100 would heat your hole house but would be in the basement.you will have to decide what you want as far as heat the hole house or supplement.

 

[Ctcarl]

Well like you said your new to this.from what your saying I would go for the 52i.you may have some cold spots in the house .for my bedroom with a cathrdral ceiling I'm trying a engery effeicnt space heater.also I don't like the ideas of the furnace being 5 yrs old.just my 2 cents what ever you choose good luck .

 

[Tim Linden]

New would have warranties. The insert would be visible and give you a "warm room". My family loves coming in from outside to stand by the stove. Also the insert wouldn't remove propane as a backup.

 

[katman]

I've got a Harman pellet boiler in my barn and pipe the heated water about 100 feet to the house. Still have the oil boiler for backup and have a propane insert in the fireplace. I thought about putting a pellet insert in before I installed the boiler. My house is pretty open, but the pellet insert wouldn't have done much to heat two of my bedrooms, the bathroom on the main floor or our sunroom. Also, I had a wood stove in the fireplace before I bought the propane insert. Pellets wouldn't have been as messy, but hauling pellets into my living room all winter and listening to the insert were big negatives. The boiler works great and I hear the furnaces do, too. I'd go for the central heat (furnace) but you don't know the condition of the furnance or say how much it will cost to install. My concern with insert is you will roast in the room with the insert while trying to generate heat for the rest of the house.

 

[turbotboz]

Well you got two different beasts here wich would you appreciate more.one may not heat the hole house but it still can reduce your heating cost dramatically the accentra would give you the feel of a fireplace in your living area keeping the space you spend the most time in toasty. The PF100 would heat your hole house but would be in the basement.you will have to decide what you want as far as heat the hole house or supplement.

I suppose my primary goal is to reduce propane use as much as possible.

Well like you said your new to this.from what your saying I would go for the 52i.you may have some cold spots in the house .for my bedroom with a cathrdral ceiling I'm trying a engery effeicnt space heater.also I don't like the ideas of the furnace being 5 yrs old.just my 2 cents what ever you choose good luck .

The age worries me too. What kind of temp delta's do you think it would have from the room the stove is in to the other side of the house? (obviously I'm asking for a guess based on your experience)

New would have warranties. The insert would be visible and give you a "warm room". My family loves coming in from outside to stand by the stove. Also the insert wouldn't remove propane as a backup.

I strongly agree. Hadn't thought about the standing by the stove factor with the family after cold winter days outside. Thanks. Also, the furnace would be an alternative to the propane, not a replacement.

I've got a Harman pellet boiler in my barn and pipe the heated water about 100 feet to the house. Still have the oil boiler for backup and have a propane insert in the fireplace. I thought about putting a pellet insert in before I installed the boiler. My house is pretty open, but the pellet insert wouldn't have done much to heat two of my bedrooms, the bathroom on the main floor or our sunroom. Also, I had a wood stove in the fireplace before I bought the propane insert. Pellets wouldn't have been as messy, but hauling pellets into my living room all winter and listening to the insert were big negatives. The boiler works great and I hear the furnaces do, too. I'd go for the central heat (furnace) but you don't know the condition of the furnance or say how much it will cost to install. My concern with insert is you will roast in the room with the insert while trying to generate heat for the rest of the house.

I dont know much about the boiler systems either. I assume this is cost prohibitive for myself. Handling the pellets into the living space is one of my concerns, but I think could get over it if it meant saving lots of $$$. I'm under the impression pellet stoves heat a little more evenly, thus avoiding the steaming hot room while trying to heat the rest of the house (vice wood stoves). Is that not the case?


Are the square footage ratings on pellet stoves fairly accurate? more/less?

Travis

 

[Ctcarl]

I suppose my primary goal is to reduce propane use as much as possible.


The age worries me too. What kind of temp delta's do you think it would have from the room the stove is in to the other side of the house? (obviously I'm asking for a guess based on your experience)


I strongly agree. Hadn't thought about the standing by the stove factor with the family after cold winter days outside. Thanks. Also, the furnace would be an alternative to the propane, not a replacement.


I dont know much about the boiler systems either. I assume this is cost prohibitive for myself. Handling the pellets into the living space is one of my concerns, but I think could get over it if it meant saving lots of $$$. I'm under the impression pellet stoves heat a little more evenly, thus avoiding the steaming hot room while trying to heat the rest of the house (vice wood stoves). Is that not the case?


Are the square footage ratings on pellet stoves fairly accurate? more/less?

Travis

My p35i is 35000 btu and I never had to put her full blast .just the number before witch I believe is 7.mind you my house is from the 50s not the gteatest insulaion.just put new craftsman 70 series windows.the old ones with weights was like ac in cold day.i have faith this will help this year.my set up is a 2000sqft 2 bedrooms a bath up stairs and kitchen living room and two bedrooms and bathroom down stairs.my p35i is in the living room and that room is always toasty warm.the 2 bedrooms upstairs are always comfortably warm(I do not use any fans as I found it didn't make a differnce for when I first got my stove)down stairs the kitchen and 2 bedrooms are about 4 degrees colder and the master bedroom with the cathedral ceiling is about 5 or 6 degrees colder.reason for my trying the space heater only for very cold days.thats only on like 20 or below out.your house is much larger but you will be suprised what the harman can do .i was hesitant about going with the smaller p35i.i really like the old fashioned look compared to the 52i.So took a chance and have not looked back.one thing I will add is I noticed with better qualty pellets you get better heat and less ash.Hope this helps

 

[moey]

Id take a furnace over cold spots every time. The price seems high the retail price several years ago was about 4k. Everything is negotiable well just about everything used items certainly are. If its operational thats 99% of verifying its good to go. Sure it may need a few minor repairs but they probably would not be a huge expense.

 

[Tim Linden]

I'm under the impression pellet stoves heat a little more evenly, thus avoiding the steaming hot room while trying to heat the rest of the house (vice wood stoves). Is that not the case?

They are much better, yes. However it still requires air to move around so depending on how your house is shaped you might need to setup fans. I was very shocked at how much it is able to naturally circulate and how far. However on the coldest nights the shape of our house doesn't flow very well so it's noticeable. So I'm putting a fan through the wall to help circulate when needed.

 

[turbotboz]

Id take a furnace over cold spots every time. The price seems high the retail price several years ago was about 4k. Everything is negotiable well just about everything used items certainly are. If its operational thats 99% of verifying its good to go. Sure it may need a few minor repairs but they probably would not be a huge expense.

Yeah the guy won't negotiate at all. Nor has he replied to my request for a video of it running. Used pellet furnaces seem to be pretty hard to come by

 

[turbotboz]

They are much better, yes. However it still requires air to move around so depending on how your house is shaped you might need to setup fans. I was very shocked at how much it is able to naturally circulate and how far. However on the coldest nights the shape of our house doesn't flow very well so it's noticeable. So I'm putting a fan through the wall to help circulate when needed.

Have you found if the HVAC fan works to move the air? On those cold night, how much Colder is farthest room from the stove?

My p35i is 35000 btu and I never had to put her full blast .just the number before witch I believe is 7.mind you my house is from the 50s not the gteatest insulaion.just put new craftsman 70 series windows.the old ones with weights was like ac in cold day.i have faith this will help this year.my set up is a 2000sqft 2 bedrooms a bath up stairs and kitchen living room and two bedrooms and bathroom down stairs.my p35i is in the living room and that room is always toasty warm.the 2 bedrooms upstairs are always comfortably warm(I do not use any fans as I found it didn't make a differnce for when I first got my stove)down stairs the kitchen and 2 bedrooms are about 4 degrees colder and the master bedroom with the cathedral ceiling is about 5 or 6 degrees colder.reason for my trying the space heater only for very cold days.thats only on like 20 or below out.your house is much larger but you will be suprised what the harman can do .i was hesitant about going with the smaller p35i.i really like the old fashioned look compared to the 52i.So took a chance and have not looked back.one thing I will add is I noticed with better qualty pellets you get better heat and less ash.Hope this helps

Thanks. If the difference is 5 degrees in our bedroom we could probably live with that. The kids rooms are closer to the stove so I'd hope they wouldn't have that much of a delta.

 

[NHcpa]

Save up for a new central heater. I have the 52I, 3200 sq ft open concept cape and there are plenty of cold spots. In the long run, you will be happy with a central unit and in the long run, save $. My $.02.

 

[turbotboz]

Save up for a new central heater. I have the 52I, 3200 sq ft open concept cape and there are plenty of cold spots. In the long run, you will be happy with a central unit and in the long run, save $. My $.02.

Hmmm. What kind of temp differences do the cold spots have? By saving for a new central unit I assume you mean a pellet furnace? We considered geothermal as well but its too expensive for us right now.

Ironically our home is only 2 years old but our propane furnace is bending us over...

 

[NHcpa]

If you read around, even the best of the pellet and wood stoves are space heaters at best. They do a great job in the immediate and local area for both heat and ambiance. This said, if you are looking for a reasonable replacement of your current furnace, with your square footage, I don't think you will be happy with any investment made towards a stand alone stove. You can spend $7500 and be happy, or $4000 and complain.

 

[NHcpa]

When I first started out, we bought a new home in '85 and I remember well, complaining when oil broke $1 per gallon. Oh the good 'ol days!

 

[Big papa]

The accentra would definitely help reduce the cost of your propane.you cold run the propane furnace every so often on colder days to help out the stove and distribute the heat to the colder rooms and the accentra would help maintain that temp for a lot longer.if you put in a pellet furnace it's not going to be like the propane furnace some one will have to be there to feed it pellets should you want to go away when it's cold.just some thoughts here not trying to sway you

 

[turbotboz]

If you read around, even the best of the pellet and wood stoves are space heaters at best. They do a great job in the immediate and local area for both heat and ambiance. This said, if you are looking for a reasonable replacement of your current furnace, with your square footage, I don't think you will be happy with any investment made towards a stand alone stove. You can spend $7500 and be happy, or $4000 and complain.

Yeah I've heard the space heater reference on here before. our house has a very open floor plan so I suppose I have high hopes. I'd hate to spend $7500 when I could of spent $6000 and had the ambiance as well as adequate heating. However I don't want to be complaining if it doesn't play out like that either. This is such a hard decision...

 

[NHcpa]

Yeah I've heard the space heater reference on here before. our house has a very open floor plan so I suppose I have high hopes. I'd hate to spend $7500 when I could of spent $6000 and had the ambiance as well as adequate heating. However I don't want to be complaining if it doesn't play out like that either. This is such a hard decision...

I too have a very open floor plan. The Accentra sits in one end of the house in a room with cathedral ceilings and I close the above bedroom doors because the heat will cook you out. The other end of the house, I crank up the wood Jotul. Between the two, I have heat! Lastly, in the coldest of winter, I keep my oil fired at 55' to catch what I miss keeping all else going. As bigpapa, stated, you could get by with the Accentra knowing you have the propane as back up. This solution would satisfy most insurance companies (generally they frown on non-conventional furnaces) and you have a compromise you could possibly be happy with.

 

[moey]

This solution would satisfy most insurance companies (generally they frown on non-conventional furnaces) and you have a compromise you could possibly be happy with.

Most folks keep their original central heating systems when installing a wood burning central heating system.

 

[acowherd]

I like to run the insert as much as I can. If the wife complains about cold bedroom before bed, then just kick on the propane heat, 30 min before bed time. I have my central heat on a programmable T-stat, and even if the stove is running up and good, ill set the wall stat to say 74. Run the furnace for 20 min or so then let it shut off, and it sets back to 70. I run in stove temp in the dead of winter so the stove keeps cranking heat. it gets up to 74 in the main living area and the outer rooms run around 70. It works for us, and i can still sit around in my whitey tighties!!

 

[turbotboz]

The accentra would definitely help reduce the cost of your propane.you cold run the propane furnace every so often on colder days to help out the stove and distribute the heat to the colder rooms and the accentra would help maintain that temp for a lot longer.if you put in a pellet furnace it's not going to be like the propane furnace some one will have to be there to feed it pellets should you want to go away when it's cold.just some thoughts here not trying to sway you

Thanks. I have thought about that as well. This would supplement my propane furnace not replace it though.

I like to run the insert as much as I can. If the wife complains about cold bedroom before bed, then just kick on the propane heat, 30 min before bed time. I have my central heat on a programmable T-stat, and even if the stove is running up and good, ill set the wall stat to say 74. Run the furnace for 20 min or so then let it shut off, and it sets back to 70. I run in stove temp in the dead of winter so the stove keeps cranking heat. it gets up to 74 in the main living area and the outer rooms run around 70. It works for us, and i can still sit around in my whitey tighties!!

Thanks. What size house?

 

[acowherd]

My first house was 2000Sq ft plus 1200 unfinished basment new home built in 2007.

This year I moved back to the farm home built in 1862 and around 2800 and crawl space. I have the 52i ready to go. Plan on heating the same way.

Parents are older and used around 1500 gal of propane heating the house last winter.

 

[turbotboz]

As of now I'm leaning towards the 52i . Our quote is $6100 (-$200 if I pull out the propane insert, which I will) and buying a new furnace is out of reach. $6500 for the PF120 without install, probably looking at $8500+ after materials are included. Last year I used 1373 gallons of propane totaling $4389. Granted we still need propane for cooking, hot water, and period temp ramps, but if this saves me $2k a year I'll be happy. According to my calculations, running the propane furnace for an hour per day through the winter will still grant me a $2000 savings annually if the stove makes up for the rest.

 

[railfanron]

I doubt you'll save 2000. My guess is if you offset 1000 gallons of propane with 5.5 tons of pellets you might save around 1000. I'm basing this on 2.50 per gallon for propane.
Ron

 

[turbotboz]

I doubt you'll save 2000. My guess is if you offset 1000 gallons of propane with 5.5 tons of pellets you might save around 1000. I'm basing this on 2.50 per gallon for propane.
Ron

My numbers were based off of our local price of $3.30 per gallon and $250 a ton for pellets..... So I think we are on the same page. 1000 gallons @ $3.3 is $3300, 5.5 tons @ $250 is $1375, for a savings of $1925

Right?